Fall 2017 allegations against unnamed players (aka Situation 2)

[Old guy]

Dlarry the kids have excellent defense lawyers, by now they have probably thought about all kinds of angles to bring up in the hearings.

[WestCoastBilliken]

3 hours ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

Regarding some (many) of the points in your post, I have to ask, "How did you get inside my mind?!"  I've thought about some of these aspects for weeks but felt like I dare not broach them on here.

Do we know the girls are white... or are you all making very large assumptions? 

I knew this would turn in to a race issue as soon as it was announced... as it always seems to turn there in this day and age. 

[615Billiken]

12 minutes ago, WestCoastBilliken said:

Do we know the girls are white... or are you all making very large assumptions? 

I knew this would turn in to a race issue as soon as it was announced... as it always seems to turn there in this day and age. 

LOL......When haven't things always turned to race?? Maybe when there were literal signs saying where whites could drink water and were black people could drink water?

[NH]

38 minutes ago, dlarry said:

This always bugs me.

I would assume the guys were probably drunk too.

Can they turn around and claim they were sexually assaulted because they had been drinking?

 I believe that specific policy is generally interpreted as saying neither party can give consent when intoxicated.

It is a super tricky area in which to assign blame and punishment, but there is definite, logical reasoning why a rule similar to that might be in place. 

[almaman]

1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

Boom.  After some 1700 posts, you are the first to get to the crux of the issue.  Complaining about the length of the Title IX investigation is misguided.  If certain players had kept their pants on, this never happens and we are 4-1. 

you think full squad loses to to Friars?

[Duff Man]

Ok...we're 69 pages deep into this thread...time to drop the hammer or let them play...that was the real deadline all along

seriously, after losing that last one maybe they need to be deceptive about player availability to keep...

/looks up the buy game opponent we might actually lose to tomorrow

the coach of Western Michigan guessing

[willie]

Watching Virginia /Wisconsin game on TV . Banner just said a woman who claims she was sexually assaulted by Michigan State football player in 2015 has filed suit against the university. You can partially see why universities go to extremes to cover their ass. 

[HoosierPal]

1 hour ago, almaman said:

you think full squad loses to to Friars?

OK, I'm not seeing blue font, so I assume this is a serious question.  Yes, I think a full squad, including Welmer, AD, and Bishop, lose to the Friars.  That was a 27 point beat-down.  

[LindellWest]

6 hours ago, youjustgotKMed said:

Maybe I'm dumb but IDK why a girl would falsely accuse someone of rape,, i mean she has nothing to gain from it and its humiliating for her.  either way i dont care and hope the boys can play bc i want our team better but not if theres questionable characters on it and they may have already been word down enough to lose any SLU pride,,, KM wasnt quite the same afterwards.  Also the fact that there is even a "video" of the incident makes it worse in my opinion.   Ahh wtf they really videotaped it,,, did she consent to the video tape haha anyway it let them play and Beat Butler

Obviously not a Harper Lee fan.....

[Band Legend]

30 minutes ago, willie said:

Watching Virginia /Wisconsin game on TV . Banner just said a woman who claims she was sexually assaulted by Michigan State football player in 2015 has filed suit against the university. You can partially see why universities go to extremes to cover their ass. 

This.  Every myopic we gotta win now Billikens fan needs to get over themselves and realize that there's more riding on this than one basketball season.  I'm sure the parties deciding what to do are cursing everyone involved for putting them in a no-win situation.  They lose donations and put themselves in legal jeopardy no matter what they decide

[dlarry]

45 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

OK, I'm not seeing blue font, so I assume this is a serious question.  Yes, I think a full squad, including Welmer, AD, and Bishop, lose to the Friars.  That was a 27 point beat-down.  

I agree they lose but I think I big reason for the loss was the tired legs from the night before.

If they have the entire team against VT the legs would  not be as tired. With fresh legs I don't think they get beat down with or without the Rosenbloom 3. It would have been a much closer game if they had played them 1st.

[HenryB]

1 hour ago, Band Legend said:

This.  Every myopic we gotta win now Billikens fan needs to get over themselves and realize that there's more riding on this than one basketball season.  I'm sure the parties deciding what to do are cursing everyone involved for putting them in a no-win situation.  They lose donations and put themselves in legal jeopardy no matter what they decide

The responsibility goes along with the job.  2 months is more than enough time to make a decision.  

[Clock_Tower]

1 hour ago, dlarry said:

I agree they lose but I think I big reason for the loss was the tired legs from the night before.

If they have the entire team against VT the legs would  not be as tired. With fresh legs I don't think they get beat down with or without the Rosenbloom 3. It would have been a much closer game if they had played them 1st.

Not sure I agree. All the teams played the day before and not just us. And while we are missing 3 due to Situation 2, Graves still would not have played. And while Bishop and Henriquez would have both played, Hines would not have played so no real difference. 

[Box and Won]

4 hours ago, Duff Man said:

Ok...we're 69 pages deep into this thread...

Aw yeah.

[AnkielBreakers]

On 11/27/2017 at 8:27 PM, willie said:

Watching Virginia /Wisconsin game on TV . Banner just said a woman who claims she was sexually assaulted by Michigan State football player in 2015 has filed suit against the university. You can partially see why universities go to extremes to cover their ass. 

1

[billiken_roy]

9 minutes ago, AnkielBreakers said:

Not to be callous, but University's have this problem in several areas and there is a lot more they could do for prevention (like, I don't know, ban all fraternities).  They pay for insurance which covers lawsuits along these lines, so their costs are mostly fixed.  Everything University's do is a dance to keep alumni and funding dollars flowing, which can be infuriating to observe.

what fraternity/sororiety were the participants of situation 2 in?  

my kids were both in fraternity /sororiety.   i believe their time in each was a wonderful experience and contributed greatly to their development as an adult.   i saw team building and leadership opportunities that they took with them that helped them greatly in their post college days.   are there wild scenarios in frats and sororities?  i am sure.   just like there are out of control situations created in non fraternal/sorority scenarios as well it is what the individuals make of the opportunities.  

the point is dont go blaming fraternities and sororieties for specific problems that are in actuality not connected.   blame the individuals.  

[3star_recruit]

Until the adults accept that most of these young women are engaging in sexually risky behavior with young alpha males because they're sexually attracted to young alpha males, the male scapegoating will continue.

[Billboy1]

This has gone on long enough either SH** or get off.  This team will be spent by conference time with the short bench.

[CBFan]

Last years team improved with a shorter bench so I do not buy the team will be spent.

As far as others posting this will hurt the university if it works out a certain way are wrong and history proves that.

Post situation 1 worked out fine with 3 straight NCAA tournament bids and as far as I can see did not hurt our recruiting based on coach Ford's recruiting success.

History could repeat itself and we all may have to wait until next year for really great basketball and a string of NCAA tournament bids.

This season is frustrating but I am with Pistol and others that want SLU to take the high road even if it means a losing season.

I will be at the game tonight cheering on who we have and hope for a surprise of all players dressed.

[NH]

1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said:

Until the adults accept that most of these young women are engaging in sexually risky behavior with young alpha males because they're sexually attracted to young alpha males, the male scapegoating will continue.

Excuse me? Who has been scapegoated in this scenario? The school received allegations against three of its students and is investigating? I don’t see any scapegoat, even if we can agree that the process of investigation itself has dragged on too long.

Additionally, are you suggesting that the broader issue with college sexual assaults is that young women are engaging in “sexually risky behavior” because they’re “attracted to alpha males”? If so, that’s a sickening take. 

 

[JMM28]

1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

what fraternity/sororiety were the participants of situation 2 in?  

my kids were both in fraternity /sororiety.   i believe their time in each was a wonderful experience and contributed greatly to their development as an adult.   i saw team building and leadership opportunities that they took with them that helped them greatly in their post college days.   are there wild scenarios in frats and sororities?  i am sure.   just like there are out of control situations created in non fraternal/sorority scenarios as well it is what the individuals make of the opportunities.  

the point is dont go blaming fraternities and sororieties for specific problems that are in actuality not connected.   blame the individuals.  

Great post. I am not a big fraternity proponent, but they have a huge net positive on SLU's campus and campuses nationwide. SLU already neuters greek life by not having any official houses. In my day they were also VERY strict with any sort of greek incidents. Way more than an average student party. It was really misguided, in my opinion. 

[Billboy1]

16 minutes ago, CBFan said:

Last years team improved with a shorter bench so I do not buy the team will be spent.

As far as others posting this will hurt the university if it works out a certain way are wrong and history proves that.

Post situation 1 worked out fine with 3 straight NCAA tournament bids and as far as I can see did not hurt our recruiting based on coach Ford's recruiting success.

History could repeat itself and we all may have to wait until next year for really great basketball and a string of NCAA tournament bids.

This season is frustrating but I am with Pistol and others that want SLU to take the high road even if it means a losing season.

I will be at the game tonight cheering on who we have and hope for a surprise of all players dressed.

There are other factors here.  This team cannot win using Hines as much as they have.  The missing players need experience in game situations. Like it or not this team can't win If the bench is short. If the university is willing to take the high road then refund ticket money.

[Bobby Metzinger]

18 hours ago, Box and Won said:

I'm so tired of this nonsense.  

And now that it's causing us to lose, I'm not sure why I bother with this program.  Why should I show up on Tuesday?  Why should I donate?

Following SLU basketball is like getting kicked in the nuts over and over and over again.  We occasionally get a short break from it, then it starts up again.

I understand 18-22 year old kids will act like 18-22 year old kids on occasion, but if SLU would do more to get out in front of these situations, namely scare the living out of Joe Student Athlete in perhaps using what happened to Willie, Kwamain, etc as an example - these sort of nut-kicking situations might not happen. 

I can't speak for the Athletic Dept. on what they do to address the growing number of sexual assault cases popping up on college campuses across the country, but it isn't enough. 

[BilliKat]

Just curiosity... who thinks the s2 boys are playing tonight? 

[Pistol]

Just a quick reset in case people are wondering why there's no announcement after the 60-day window. Per SLU's Sexual Misconduct Policy, and I'll save you the trouble and direct your attention to the bottom of page 33, either party may appeal the outcome. They have 3 days to appeal after the Notice of Outcome, and "except in extraordinary circumstances", the University has 10 days to resolve the appeal.

So assuming we're on day 64 of the process (Stu tweeted "day 63" yesterday) and all 13 days are taken for the appeals process, we're looking at Thursday, 12/7 for a possible resolution - possibly earlier, if they don't use the whole time frame, and possibly later, if there are some holiday-related delays factored in.

SLU plays SIUC on 12/6, so I would safely assume we won't see them back before then. Houston is 12/9, Murray State is 12/12, and Oregon State is 12/16. Murray State is regular season game 10, for a nice round number on a possible suspension.