Clock_Tower

Love the reference

Gonzaga has been able to maintain its high level following it being Cinderella in the NCAA Tourney - and has kept winning and winning and winning. Keeping its coach and reinvestment of monies earned has been critical but being able to dominate its conference and get a bid every year by qualifying for the Tourney each year has been just as big. Xavier made the NCAA Tourney each year mostly by winning the MCC and then the A-10. Butler dominated the Horizon and got its opportunity each year as well. I recall several years when Butler was simply not a good team... but somehow they won their Conference Tournament and kept the NCAA Tourney streak going. And no one goes back and re-examines how/why a team made the Tourney -- just that they went... so many times ... so many times in a row... George Mason and Davidson had their runs... and recently Chicago Loyola has had theirs. Xavier is no longer winning their conference/conference Tourney each year, but have been good enough to get "at large" bids. Butler is trying as well, has name recognition, continues to receive the prior NCAA Tourney paychecks, has re-invested its monies wisely, has mostly hired good new coaches... but Davidson and George Mason are shells of their past. Chicago Loyola will likely be the same. Nonetheless, I prefer mediocre team/program in the Midwest (and Chicago in particular) than another mediocre team/program on the East Coast. Welcome aboard Loyola!

Another pick up by Georgia. Strong recent teams at Auburn. Possibly the top basketball team next year will be Alabama. Someone forgot to tell these SEC schools that they football schools (Georgia, Auburn, Tennessee and now Alabama) - not basketball schools. Instead, they are using all the football money to improve not only their football programs - stadiums, practice facilities, weight/locker rooms...but also their general campuses (dorms, rec centers, school buildings), improve their student body (GPAs, class rank, SAT/ACT scores) and now men’s basketball programs- coaches, recruiting budgets, facilities... Rich get richer.

+1 to all prior comments. Like the rest of you, I assumed no news was good news. Tragic. Peace.

Agreed upon this year and the affects of COVID. And maybe about Jacobs. Not saying no. At the same time, he had plenty of time and chances prior. A late developer, COVID set back, alot of depth at his position, alot of teammates w similar skills... and yet he has improved every year... just not sure how much higher he can go - especially without playing alot in order to get better. He benefited from better college coaching, learned the speed of the college game, improved his skills and technique, got stronger... but he probably needs to now play, make mistakes, learn from them and have fun while getting better. Don’t see the opportunity here. Good luck at Ball State!

Agreed. This was JGood and French's team - neither deferred to anyone - not Bess, not Roby, not Foreman. Then it became the the Big 3 but Thatch had medical issues. Perkins didn't care and didn't defer to anyone. Even when he first appeared, and played lost that first semester with a deer in a headlight look, he put his shot up again and again and againg and then became our best player/scorer - even in the shadows of JGood and French. Jacobs had opportunity after opportunity - but didn't. Jacobs didn't become a part of any new Big 3. Jacobs did not become our best player/scorer. I thank Jacobs for his hard work, his efforts and wish him nothing but the best.

St Bonaventure has larger guards and we want to win the A10. So it is ok to get lit up by the good teams in your league? And every player has their strengths and weaknesses. And if they did not have weaknesses, they would not be playing for St. Louis University in the A10. But when you lack a perimeter game which results in the other team not guarding you and you also has trouble finishing in the lane, i part bc of your height which cannot change, then yes it is hard to look the other way as to your defense. And yes, when scoring must come from the other 4 players, extra pressure is placed on the other 4. If you want a 3.0 or B average for your academic semester but the best you can do in a given class is a 2.0 or C, then you cannot meet your goal with a 3.0 or B in your other 4 classes. And if you goal is a 3.5 or B+ average, then there need to be quite a few 4.0 or A’s in your other 4 classes. And IMO, this pressure was too much for a youngster like Jimerson. Upper class leadership can handle such pressure but unfortunately our upper class leaders could not shoot from the perimeter either.

So another 2 guard without a strong perimeter shot playing next to a PG without a perimeter shot?

So another 2 guard without a strong perimeter shot playing next to a PG without a perimeter shot.

French improved his first 2 years. Got stronger. Developed a spin move. Developed a 2 or 3 dribble power move. Improved ball handling. Showed us a baby hook.... but then never developed a mid range shot, became predictable and his FTs appeared worse his Junior and Senior year than his Freshman year.i place most of this on the player rather than coach all of which I said the same previously.

Yes. DE became a more well rounded player each year for us - something that French never did. At the same time, I still contend he was not stretch anything - as you suggest. And while he had a mid range game and improved his handles each year, he still did his best work with his back to the basket. And when he had his back to the basket, our 4 (CE) and 5 (RL) were often threats lining up on the 3 point line. And when CE and RL were playing inside or when DE was guarded by a larger, less mobile big, as you mention, DE could take advantage, draw his man out and hit the mid range. And yes, if DE struggled while playing with French, it would be French's fault as opposed to DE's.. Most 6'5" guys who play the 3 are more guard than forward. They are guys can shoot can hit the 3, handle the ball and be more comfortable on the perimeter. Not DE -- he was more a traditional small forward than a wing -- more comfortable with his back to the basket.

TJ ‘s path is through becoming a guard as opposed to a forward. Will he make it? Not sure. Some improvement already though. 2 guard, 3, 4/PF? Thought modern basketball got rid of this and went to putting our your best 5?. I say otherwise. And no, Dwayne Evans was not a stretch 4 or a stretch anything. He was a traditional but undersized forward who played w his back to the basket, who had alot of success for us but who tried to improve his guard skills over his 4 years, who found open space in the lane, who took advantage of odd matchups caused by our lineup and who benefited from the stretching of our stretch 4 (Cody Ellis) and our stretch 5 (Rob Loe). DE did not stretch and IMO he would have struggled playing with similar, non-stretch players like French and JGood.

Roy. Sorry for the delay in responding. As to Hargrove in high school, let me start by saying I never saw him play in high school and I defer to you and others on this Board who actually have gone and watched Hargove and the other players play. My comments are based upon what I have read about him. Please, correct me if I have made the wrong conclusions but I understand that he was coached by multiple coaches, that the coaching he received may not have been the best, that discipline, structure and defense was not emphasized and yet he helped lead his team to a State Championship his Senior year. During that time, he seems to have relied heavily upon his amazing yet raw athletic ability. And while he appeared to have scored from every part of the court, it does not appear he had a high percentage of shooting and while he made 3 pointers in high school, I have yet to read accounts about him being a real perimeter threat, a 3 point shooter. And from reading other posters, they indicated his dribbling was not a strength. And furthermore, he appeared to have been more a small forward than a guard. Now, I have seen Hargrove play here at SLU these past two (2) years. And I agree with Taj that Hargrove is halfway up the mountain with a long way to go. The development, or change, I see in Hargrove is with his defense and embracing of coaching. I see an improvement in fundamentals and footwork. While I did not see him play defense in high school, I did see him play early on at SLU. I saw bad fundamentals, I saw him let his man pass by him to either score or sometimes see him somehow block the shot from behind with his unreal jumping and athletic ability. Now, I see his feet moving and much better technique not letting his guy pass by him easily. Also, I see an improvement on his perimeter shooting, structure and playing without the ball. Whether he is truly better or not, he is certainly more confident and his head is no longer spinning. But to me, the biggest change, and I stress the word I used "appears" to be Hargrove is becoming a guard and a 3 point threat. Sure, his percentage may be increasing, or may not, but I don't put much stock in percentages when the amount of shots is few and when there are so many variables -- was he left open? was the pass good/bad? was the shot off a screen? was the shot off a dribble? was the shot on the break? did he have a hand in his face? was the defense expecting the 3 pointer? So many factors. But to me, if you agree that midrange and perimeter shooting threats were not coming from Yuri, JGood and French, and if those 3 played alot of minutes, then mid range and perimeter had to come from Perkins and someone else. And if Hargrove ended the year having earned playing time over Jjimerson, a guard and a 3 point shooter, then that tells me that Hargrove must have impressed in practice. Of course, I am not at practice but it sure appears that a change is taking place. We will soon find out.

Alot of prior discussions about our players and coaches, player development and how hard it is to change one’s game. Doesn’t appear to have been much development of Watson by Cuonzo Martin or by Watson himself. Not seeing much development of other players in Columbia either. And when I read your comments about Watson being a 6’4”, talented, 4 star guy struggling in high level D1 with limited dribbling and perimeter skills still relying upon what worked in high school, I think of a different 6’4” talented guy of our own who appears to be excelling in high level D1 by changing himself into a completely different player than the successful one he was in high school - Terrance Hargrove.

Apparently 6 of the Cincy basketball players didn't like their head coach either and all went into the transfer portal triggering an investigation despite no allegations of abuse or a rules violation... Article says they won their championship last year with a 20-10 before this year's disaster season...

I agree but don't bother. Minds are set in stone. Stating that the NCAA shut down last season's conference tournaments and NCAA Tourney is an excuse. Using COVID and a 34 day pause this year too is an excuse. Mentioning a guy with a severe, life altering, debilitating disease is an excuse. Mentioning gyms were closed and Spring/Summer leagues were shut down last year is an excuse. Being lied to about 4 of your players who possessed the skills which the team had been lacking before them being railroaded out of town is an excuse. Ignore it all. And simply say, Coach Ford's teams lack cohesion, his guys aren't developed, are poorly coached and just cannot win. And all on the heels of watching the likes of Okoro and Nesbitt in only 6 short months?

Lying? Really? I never said anything about your opinions on Ford and recruiting, motivating - both true. From your repeated comments about him not developing players, not playing the proper tempo, not using players properly, not being a good x's and o's guy..., your comments sure give the impression that you don't like Coach Ford generally but that you are tolerating him and that you give him limited props as to recruiting and motivating while being smart enough to know that our program likely cannot do much better than him. As to your mother, you yourself have brought her up in the past with Crews (and I agree with you on that). The point then was that RM had built and developed such a good, sound, well-oiled machine that anyone could win with that team. The point now is that when I hear the exhorbant praise regarding Coach Ford's recruiting, how great our players are, how much talent we have, the most talented team in Billiken history, the deepest team in Billiken history, then all that is happening is that Coach Ford is being set up for failure and to not meet such lofty expectations. You are correct that we have no NBA talented players - even though we have had some in the past. I contend these past few years have been extremely difficult to put a cohesive team together and to blend unusual talent (yes there has been a good amount of talent and French and JGood are part of that), to hide major flaws in players (and French and JGood are part of that), to rebuild from scratch and to rebuild twice after a kick in the teeth due to S2. Speaking of Perkins, sure he had some great JUCO stats. But I recall his early days in which he did not appear to know what defense was much less to play defense. I also recall him having a silky smooth shot but no clue how to play without the ball. In short, the development I have seen in Perkinis has been huge -- and yet you only want to give Ford credit for recruiting him? And in support is his good JUCO stats? Am I mistating your position? JGood and French were not developed past their Freshman year? Wow. Don't know what to say about that, so I won't.

Of course. But I view any production from Thatch post illness as a bonus. He is beating the odds already. And when you refer to his potential, you do factor in his illness, right? It’s not like a broken bone in a cast for a few months, right?

Sorry if I am throwing cold water on your questionable narrative you have been peddling these past few years. Face it. You don’t like Ford, you never like Ford, you didn’t like Crews, RM etc. And yes, the false narrative is Ford is such an elite recruiter that even your mother could win with such elite talent that when Ford doesn’t win, it is then bc he cannot develop or coach the elite talent he has. Remind me again where French and JGood will be drafted in the first round of the NBA? And why is Perkins coming back to college if he is a lottery pick?

Yes, but as additional litmus tests. Cannot ignore the existing body of work these past 4 years. Can Ford recruit? I’d say yes based on the talent brought in post Crews - and now with Okoro and Nesbit. Can Ford make the Tournament? He already did and I think we had a good chance last year and were a lock this year but for COVID. Can Ford “in game” coach as good x’s and o’s guy? Again, I say yes. Anyone who can win with a 6’6” PF who cannot dribble, make a FT or shoot beyond 5 foot, who has wings who mostly slash/score but not shoot except for 1 Freshman who can shoot but not yet create his own shot, whose best scorer is a thin transfer who gets pushed around in tight half court games and whose PG somehow can still penetrate collapsing defenses which know exactly what we will do based upon what we can do and then make this worse when he doesn’t shoot, doesn’t draw a defender and struggles to finish - preferring to pass- when he penetrates the lane. Yeah, just putting the right combination of 5 guys on the floor is a major tactical decision and proof of being a good “in game” coach - much less substitutions.

Because of his severe, permanent, life altering medical diagnosis.

More back hand slams on our head coach - Coach Ford. You must really detest him. Not an original thought in that empty head of yours. Unlike you, I think Ford has done a remarkable job of developing talent. And while I have the highest respect for RM, he had alot of misses and gave up on players rather than develop them. RM made up for this by showing many, many players the door. Ford doesn’t. Yes, RM developed his own players (BC, KM, Jett, etc) but he did very little with Liddell and Lisch - both of whom would have flourished themselves under Brad rather than RM. In fact, I believe Coach Ford has been an exceptional developer of talent as I give him credit for Roby, Bess, Isabel, JGood and Perkins. And while RM would not have recruited the same players that Coach Ford recruited, I have no doubt that RM would have shown the door to Jacobs after 1 year - and yet he developed greatly under Ford. And if we are patient, we will see real development in Yuri, Hargrove and Jimerson - all 3 who are light years ahead of when they first set foot on campus. Like an asshxole, everyone has one - an opinion. But just like your ridiculous prediction that Ford will never win an NCAA Tournament game, you are wrong on Ford’s ability to develop talent and you will soon be proven wrong on Ford’s ability to win an NCAA Tourney game.

Thank you

So if Williams is NOT a combo guard, what is he? Maybe not the best available combo guard for our program or that is available, but isn't he still a combo guard? I have no real idea of his skills but the reason I am talking about him, him being a combo guard, etc. is because I know that we have certain A10 teams (VCU) which like to swarm/press and having more than Yuri to handle the ball/dribble when needed is necessary. Kwamain had McCall and Jett... Yuri had JGood, Jacobs and Russell last year and now ______? Williams and Nesbitt and someone else? And we have other teams (Davidson, St. Bona...) which force us into half court contests and having multiple outside shooters and a threat from all 5 spots is important. Doesn't seem like Williams is afraid to shoot.

Yes. Good and fair point. But in response, a player does what his coach wants him to do. And I believe most players have the skills to pass if required of them. And if he has better handles than most of the rest of our guards, then he has the potential to be a play maker under coach Ford and in a different environment with different expectations. And if you look at the rest of his team, not a single player other than their point guard even had 2 assists per game. Not my style of basketball. https://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/2473