Fall 2017 allegations against unnamed players (aka Situation 2)

[dlarry]

1 hour ago, BillsBeliever!!! said:

Where do we believe we are in the investigation now?

I believe we are at the part where a bunch of idiots drag this on for another month or two. Then they will proceed to the part where a bunch of bozos drag it on for a few more weeks. Finally the will get to the part where a bunch of A-holes finish screwing the players. 

Oddly enough this will both begin and end with people getting screwed.

[almaman]

43 minutes ago, dlarry said:

I believe we are at the part where a bunch of idiots drag this on for another month or two. Then they will proceed to the part where a bunch of bozos drag it on for a few more weeks. Finally the will get to the part where a bunch of A-holes finish screwing the players. 

Oddly enough this will both begin and end with people getting screwed.

I don't think actual screwing in the most locker roomish of uses has been confirmed as having occurred in S2?

[Old guy]

1 hour ago, dlarry said:

I believe we are at the part where a bunch of idiots drag this on for another month or two. Then they will proceed to the part where a bunch of bozos drag it on for a few more weeks. Finally the will get to the part where a bunch of A-holes finish screwing the players. 

Oddly enough this will both begin and end with people getting screwed.

You know dlarry this may be the closest thing to reality that anyone has written in this thread so far, particularly the last line.

[ARon]

On 1/5/2018 at 4:15 PM, William Kenneth said:

Had the players, who to this point haven't been found guilty of ANYTHING been allowed to play, I believe the plaintiff(s) would have been clamoring for a decision ASAP (in an effort to keep them from playing) which would have resulted in one being made weeks, if not months, ago.

Only on basketball message board would someone assume that the primary concern of a person who feels they were sexually assaulted is whether or not the man who assulted them gets to play ball.

[brianstl]

Just now, ARon said:

Only on basketball message board would someone assume that the primary concern of a person who feels they were sexually assaulted is whether or not the man who assulted them gets to play ball.

If it isn’t a primary why are they suspended then?

[ARon]

6 minutes ago, brianstl said:

If it isn’t a primary why are they suspended then?

You really think that basketball is what the accusers would be worried about?  That is a university CYA move as has already been discussed here.

[billikenfan05]

Just now, ARon said:

You really think that basketball is what the accusers would be worried about?  That is a university CYA move as has already been discussed here.

If the players aren’t going to be charged with anything I would say that is what the accusers would go after next yes. 

[Quality Is Job 1]

13 minutes ago, ARon said:

Only on basketball message board would someone assume that the primary concern of a person who feels they were sexually assaulted is whether or not the man who assulted them gets to play ball.

Do those young women really feel they were sexually "assaulted," or do they feel like something happened that they regretted (or in some manner that they regretted) and so they want their hindsight honor avenged?

I really don't know, but I suspect it was more the latter, because if it were the former, I imagine Coach Ford would have put the guys off the team.

[brianstl]

24 minutes ago, ARon said:

You really think that basketball is what the accusers would be worried about?  That is a university CYA move as has already been discussed here.

Which means the university violated Title IX guidance by placing their institutional interest in the adjudication of this case ahead of the parties involved in case.  I hope the school has a better answer for this question if the players file a complaint with the DoE.

[Clock_Tower]

5 hours ago, ARon said:

Only on basketball message board would someone assume that the primary concern of a person who feels they were sexually assaulted is whether or not the man who assulted them gets to play ball.

Believe William Kenneth is merely stating that the accusers want justice and if they cannot get jail time, school expulsion, etc. they would at least take comfort in knowing these athletes are not playing the sport they love and thereby being punished some.

Also, believe the other aspect of his comment is that the suspension until resolution approach has naturally lead to a desire by the accusers to delay the final ruling and that had the boys not been initially suspended, then the accusers would be pushing for a prompt resolution.  Also, under these facts, the accused boys might, in contrast, be seeking delays to push this off a few more months until the end of the season.

[Cowboy]

-I heard a gentleman at the Richmond game who said he was Ty Graves father give some interesting information about S2, he said there was a cheerleader involved who was at the game Sat night cheering, said everything was consensual, said the text messages between the women was part of the reason no criminal charges will be brought, said the women bought the condoms, said the women put the condoms on the guys, said there was a fourth person (player) and he has no idea why this person is playing and his son isn't, said the video was thought to have been posted to a private site but mistakenly it was a public site, Ty was moved back into SLU housing in the last few days,  said the players were taken by police car from the campus every day to their living quarters, the hearing officer is a white woman, DrP  is doing nothing, CMay is trying, the U administration has totally botched this, he said one of the women wants nothing more to do the investigation and is not able to be found since the semester ended , said in the next few days there should be a decision

[Spoon-Balls]

2 minutes ago, Cowboy said:

-I heard a gentleman at the Richmond game who said he was Ty Graves father give some interesting information about S2, he said there was a cheerleader involved who was at the game Sat night cheering, said everything was consensual, said the text messages between the women was part of the reason no criminal charges will be brought, said the women bought the condoms, said the women put the condoms on the guys, said there was a fourth person (player) and he has no idea why this person is playing and his son isn't, said the video was thought to have been posted to a private site but mistakenly it was a public site, Ty was moved back into SLU housing in the last few days, said the players were taken by police car from the campus every day to their living quarters, the hearing officer is a white woman, Dr P is doing nothing, CMay is trying, the U administration has totally botched this, he said one of the women wants nothing more to do the investigation and is not able to be found since the semester ended , said in the next few days there should be a decision

Jesus. So many reasons for the players to sue the University after this is all over. 

[wgstl]

17 minutes ago, Cowboy said:

-I heard a gentleman at the Richmond game who said he was Ty Graves father give some interesting information about S2, he said there was a cheerleader involved who was at the game Sat night cheering, said everything was consensual, said the text messages between the women was part of the reason no criminal charges will be brought, said the women bought the condoms, said the women put the condoms on the guys, said there was a fourth person (player) and he has no idea why this person is playing and his son isn't, said the video was thought to have been posted to a private site but mistakenly it was a public site, Ty was moved back into SLU housing in the last few days,  said the players were taken by police car from the campus every day to their living quarters, the hearing officer is a white woman, DrP  is doing nothing, CMay is trying, the U administration has totally botched this, he said one of the women wants nothing more to do the investigation and is not able to be found since the semester ended , said in the next few days there should be a decision

I guess the only thing I find interesting is why would the dad travel all this way when he's not playing? I guess here for support, I don't know.

[Adman]

On 1/5/2018 at 7:01 AM, cheeseman said:

I would suggest to you that SLU already has a PR disaster on their hands - the question now is just how bad do they want it be?  The longer this drags on the more false info and rumors start to take hold in the public's mind.  SLU was always going to be open to possible lawsuits - if they thought they weren't then they are getting bad advice. Given your example of why the players may not be playing I would submit that the fact that the accused are on campus shreds that as a viable argument - do you really think an accused person is going to attack the person accusing them in a stadium full of people on TV?   Also, if the player is practicing and traveling with the team then they could routinely run across the person at any time in the arena going to practices or study halls for example.  At this point, by leaving the player on campus I would think opens the school up to a lot more second guessing then simply removing them pending the outcome on the basis of protecting the accuser.  I think enough stuff about this case has leaked out and from your post you do know more specifics then what you are admitting to - yes this is not speculation on my part - all I am saying is that if you want to drag this out for a long time then what SLU is doing will accomplish this but this is not in their best interest nor the player nor the accuser. 

Cheese, just a couple quick responses.

1) Definitely agree they already have PR disaster.

2) I’m as frustrated as you are. The time this has taken - with video evidence apparently available - is incomprehensible.

3) My points were only i) an attempt to find another explanation as to why they might not be playing. (not saying I like it!) If my theory was right and an accuser was part of basketball production, and an altercation occurred in-game, not only would the University be negligent in knowingly allowing the safety of the parties to be put at risk via close contact, the PR nightmare would be immense. No one plans to get in altercation. Coaches don’t intend to get technicals either (usually!) You think people can’t lose their tempers at basketball games? and ii) If I was right, I could understand the jam SLU was in. Rock and hard place

4) The fact they’re on campus does not shread the argument. The U has wide latitude of things they can do. I don’t know exactly how they do this, but logically they would view initial evidence and any prior issues with these students, then determine “reasonable” steps to keep them away from each other, maintain safety. The U could say it’s within reasonable risk to allow the accused to still go to class, go to practice, travel with team, but maybe living arrangements and class schedules should be altered, and presence in arena on game day/playing in games where accuser(s) may come in close contact in high emotion game setting is only asking for trouble. Very possible other steps put in place to keep practices free of accusers and vice versa.  BTW, I wasn’t making this stuff up. While specific play/no play option isn’t listed, these broad types of interim options are all part of and listed in SLU’s policy. You can read it.

5) i was absolutely not holding info back; I knew/know nothing more about the accusers. No one affiliated with the University has provided any info to me. I read this board. And after reading SLU’s policy too many times, I was just making alternate guess as to why players could still be in school but not in games (besides an official suspension.) This theory was possible explanation

 

[mrjoelabs]

2 hours ago, Cowboy said:

-I heard a gentleman at the Richmond game who said he was Ty Graves father give some interesting information about S2, he said there was a cheerleader involved who was at the game Sat night cheering, said everything was consensual, said the text messages between the women was part of the reason no criminal charges will be brought, said the women bought the condoms, said the women put the condoms on the guys, said there was a fourth person (player) and he has no idea why this person is playing and his son isn't, said the video was thought to have been posted to a private site but mistakenly it was a public site, Ty was moved back into SLU housing in the last few days,  said the players were taken by police car from the campus every day to their living quarters, the hearing officer is a white woman, DrP  is doing nothing, CMay is trying, the U administration has totally botched this, he said one of the women wants nothing more to do the investigation and is not able to be found since the semester ended , said in the next few days there should be a decision

If this is all true, take it to the media..TOMORROW...and this thing will be over by Friday. The only reason it drags on is no pressure/exposure.  All it would take is a 15 minute spot on local news followed by a stltoday front page talking about hows its a botched injustice.  

[SLU_Nick]

Good job Cowboy.  I knew there was a reason I continued to click on this topic.

This is appalling.  SLU is lucky that except for about 75 fans on here, there no palpable outrage anywhere.  What a miscarriage of justice.  

And if you need evidence that no one is outraged, just go read the rose-colored garbage of a thread entitled “proud of our Billikens”.  

“Our billikens” include 3 players who are being railroaded right now by this administration. The delay of the decision into 2nd semester has absolutely jeopardized not just their playing career, but their academic career. 

#makeadecision 

 

[slufan13]

Great stuff @Cowboy. Thanks for sharing 

[David King]

3 hours ago, SLU_Nick said:

The delay of the decision into 2nd semester has absolutely jeopardized not just their playing career, but their academic career. 

#makeadecision 

 

When do classes start for the second semester? Something has to happen before then.

[CBFan]

7 hours ago, Cowboy said:

-I heard a gentleman at the Richmond game who said he was Ty Graves father give some interesting information about S2, he said there was a cheerleader involved who was at the game Sat night cheering, said everything was consensual, said the text messages between the women was part of the reason no criminal charges will be brought, said the women bought the condoms, said the women put the condoms on the guys, said there was a fourth person (player) and he has no idea why this person is playing and his son isn't, said the video was thought to have been posted to a private site but mistakenly it was a public site, Ty was moved back into SLU housing in the last few days,  said the players were taken by police car from the campus every day to their living quarters, the hearing officer is a white woman, DrP  is doing nothing, CMay is trying, the U administration has totally botched this, he said one of the women wants nothing more to do the investigation and is not able to be found since the semester ended , said in the next few days there should be a decision

Thank you Cowboy for sharing and giving clarity to S2.  Good to read Chris May is trying and that this board is not being unfair to Freddy P and the administration.

[Pistol]

Another media member reads the board:

 

[Clock_Tower]

8 hours ago, Adman said:

Cheese, just a couple quick responses.

1) Definitely agree they already have PR disaster.

2) I’m as frustrated as you are. The time this has taken - with video evidence apparently available - is incomprehensible.

3) My points were only i) an attempt to find another explanation as to why they might not be playing. (not saying I like it!) If my theory was right and an accuser was part of basketball production, and an altercation occurred in-game, not only would the University be negligent in knowingly allowing the safety of the parties to be put at risk via close contact, the PR nightmare would be immense. No one plans to get in altercation. Coaches don’t intend to get technicals either (usually!) You think people can’t lose their tempers at basketball games? and ii) If I was right, I could understand the jam SLU was in. Rock and hard place

4) The fact they’re on campus does not shread the argument. The U has wide latitude of things they can do. I don’t know exactly how they do this, but logically they would view initial evidence and any prior issues with these students, then determine “reasonable” steps to keep them away from each other, maintain safety. The U could say it’s within reasonable risk to allow the accused to still go to class, go to practice, travel with team, but maybe living arrangements and class schedules should be altered, and presence in arena on game day/playing in games where accuser(s) may come in close contact in high emotion game setting is only asking for trouble. Very possible other steps put in place to keep practices free of accusers and vice versa.  BTW, I wasn’t making this stuff up. While specific play/no play option isn’t listed, these broad types of interim options are all part of and listed in SLU’s policy. You can read it.

5) i was absolutely not holding info back; I knew/know nothing more about the accusers. No one affiliated with the University has provided any info to me. I read this board. And after reading SLU’s policy too many times, I was just making alternate guess as to why players could still be in school but not in games (besides an official suspension.) This theory was possible explanation

 

Adman.

The problem, though, is that Title IX which is a federal statute from 1972 designed to provide additional opportunities to women (scholarships...) has now turned into the mechanism to right all social norms on liberal campuses.  Title IX apparently applies to non-scholarship students as well as to non-students. Yes, reasonable precautions are usually taken but I do not believe that every accused has been banned from every school building/quad area because the accuser may be there.  Also, we have seen other schools allow their players to play during the investigation and a large amount of these Title IX violations occur between the male athletes and the others they usually come in contact with (women's basketball team, other women's teams, cheerleaders, student staffers, etc

[Clock_Tower]

9 hours ago, Cowboy said:

-I heard a gentleman at the Richmond game who said he was Ty Graves father give some interesting information about S2, he said there was a cheerleader involved who was at the game Sat night cheering, said everything was consensual, said the text messages between the women was part of the reason no criminal charges will be brought, said the women bought the condoms, said the women put the condoms on the guys, said there was a fourth person (player) and he has no idea why this person is playing and his son isn't, said the video was thought to have been posted to a private site but mistakenly it was a public site, Ty was moved back into SLU housing in the last few days,  said the players were taken by police car from the campus every day to their living quarters, the hearing officer is a white woman, DrP  is doing nothing, CMay is trying, the U administration has totally botched this, he said one of the women wants nothing more to do the investigation and is not able to be found since the semester ended , said in the next few days there should be a decision

Very interesting. 

And recall Kratky's statement how easily these things can are remedied on her end.

[gobillsgo]

Anyone else feel like we are moving toward a decision shortly?  

If Cowboy’s info is correct, and Graves has been allowed to move back into campus housing, that’s a good sign I would think. 

[cheeseman]

6 minutes ago, gobillsgo said:

Anyone else feel like we are moving toward a decision shortly?  

If Cowboy’s info is correct, and Graves has been allowed to move back into campus housing, that’s a good sign I would think. 

I thought someone had previously confirmed that the entire team lives off campus - so why would Graves be moving on campus now?

[Cowboy]

9 hours ago, wgstl said:

I guess the only thing I find interesting is why would the dad travel all this way when he's not playing? I guess here for support, I don't know.

-he said there were meetings about the situation that he attended