Fall 2017 allegations against unnamed players (aka Situation 2)

[slufan13]

For those who like to read into this kind of stuff, a SLU cheer/dance member just followed Henriquez on the twitters. Would you really follow someone if they sexually assaulted one of your teammates and were never coming back to the team. 

[NH]

6 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

For those who like to read into this kind of stuff, a SLU cheer/dance member just followed Henriquez on the twitters. Would you really follow someone if they sexually assaulted one of your teammates and were never coming back to the team. 

Billikens.com is going to win a Pulitzer for the investigative journalism being done through social media relating to S2.

[slufan13]

4 minutes ago, NH said:

Billikens.com is going to win a Pulitzer for the investigative journalism being done through social media relating to S2.

I need more things to do in my life. I've convinced myself of 4 different outcomes just in the past 8 hours. 

[cheeseman]

28 minutes ago, Billboy1 said:

Believe whole Title IX is unconstitutional because of the way it does not allow for due process the way schools use it.

I am not sure about Title IX but since it is under the Federal Government's OCR division I assume it may operate in a similar fashion.  Having an organization's OCR Hearing Officer what takes place once you have completed your investigation and made a determination either for or against you forward all the information you  have gathered - usually interview transcripts and your determination with the supporting reasons/evidence to the Federal OCR group.  They review what you sent them and if they believe you have done proper work and reached a supportable determination then they will notify you and the party who filed the complaint in writing that the matter is finished as far as they are concerned.  Now if they have a problem with your work, then they will come in and conduct their own investigation - never happened to me but I know instances when it did.  If the party who filed the complaint is unhappy then they can use the court system to look for another remedy but it is a tough hill to climb if the OCR Office agrees that the matter is settled.  Remember, they would have to prove that their civil rights had been violated and if the OCR Office says otherwise then how easy would it be to continue.

[Billy Ken]

How does 4th player get to play? Just curious, that doesn't seem fair.

[MattyMo213]

56 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

For those who like to read into this kind of stuff, a SLU cheer/dance member just followed Henriquez on the twitters. Would you really follow someone if they sexually assaulted one of your teammates and were never coming back to the team. 

Was it cheer or dance? Dance team has nothing to do with S2 and the two teams aren’t super connected

[Clock_Tower]

No one knows for sure but speculation is that the 4th girl recanted.  

[wgstl]

34 minutes ago, Billy Ken said:

How does 4th player get to play? Just curious, that doesn't seem fair.

As I said earlier, if I remember right it was originally four players then the girl  and said it was three.

[TFord and TRavs]

Story i heard was 4th player was present and late to the party but did not partake or was in any video 

[RiseAndGrind]

So..... no decision? 

[cheeseman]

Either way, the player was not involved regardless how he was or wasn't and that should suffice.

[Cowboy]

1 minute ago, cheeseman said:

Either way, the player was not involved regardless how he was or wasn't and that should suffice.

-???

[keyser soze]

I would chalk it up to Mr Graves very understandable frustration. 

[Quality Is Job 1]

When the school announces the "verdict," I hope they categorically refute any notion that the players were being investigated for "sexual assault."  They should say, "The Title IX investigation was not connected to sexual assault."  As it stands, these players' reputations and employability prospects have been severely tarnished.

[HoosierPal]

I really wanted to be the 4000th poster on this thread, but it looks like I missed it.  Oh well.

[Clock_Tower]

 

2 hours ago, Adman said:

Yeah, I've been thinking about counter Title IX charges for weeks. But for this to hold water, the players would have to have a believable story about how they did not consent to the activities or were too drunk to consent which, with video available, would be relatively unbelievable. That's why I was leaning towards threat of post-adjudication charges - criminal and with SLU - if falsely accused.

Of course, no one is suggesting anyone lie but I see nothing wrong with stating, in the alternative, different theories.  For instance, Player A states he had known Accuser A for ___ period of time, they had previously been friends doing ____ together, that he met Accuser A on the evening of September 2017, that both had been drinking, that to the best of Player A's recollection and belief that Player A had been drinking more than Accuser A, that Player A believes he had consensual sex with Accuser A because of _____; however, in the alternative, and to the extent Player A is mistaken or that Accuser A believes the sex was anything but consensual, that Player A states that his Title IX rights were violated by Accuser A who had been drinking less than Player A, who had invited Player A to her apartment, who had previously purchased condoms for use that night, who had suggested the same have sex knowing that Player A had been in an inferior capacity to make decisions due to his prior drinking and diminished judgment....

The initial step is making a plausible charge.  Believeablity is not at issue initially.  The final step is convincing the hearing officer - and by then, the counter charge can be withdrawn. 

[Old guy]

Clock you must live in the other side of the moon. The more alternative different theories that get stated in from of the title IX officer the longer they will take to sort out, particularly if they make a plausible charge. I do not think this hearing officer is about to be convinced about any  number of alternative narrations that may be introduced into this process, particularly at this time, but I am sure any and all such alternative theories will be investigated thoroughly, with ample opportunity provided to file counters, complaints, addendums and appeals. If you have any hope of seeing any of these kids playing in next year's bills team, I suggest to stop this mental masturbation. We may be getting to the end of the process, whenever it comes. Your suggestions, if implemented, will be adding lots of extra time to the proceedings, for what end? Justice? Justice already went by the waside, what you have to deal with now is regulations and protocols. 

[Quality Is Job 1]

12 minutes ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

When the school announces the "verdict," I hope they categorically refute any notion that the players were being investigated for "sexual assault."  They should say, "The Title IX investigation was not connected to sexual assault."  As it stands, these players' reputations and employability prospects have been severely tarnished.

Following is a snippet of Pestello's open letter.

Quote

On Sunday, Sept. 24, we were notified by a representative of the St. Louis Metropolitan Police Department that three women, including two SLU students, reported they were sexually assaulted in an on-campus apartment by student athletes.

First, I want to say how deeply troubled I am by these allegations, which involve behavior that runs counter to our mission and values. SLU seeks to foster a safe and supportive atmosphere where students, faculty, clinicians, and staff can flourish in an inclusive environment that is free from harassment and harm. Sexual assault, misconduct and harassment of any kind have no place at our University.

St. Louis police are investigating the reports, and the University is cooperating fully with the police investigation.

The University has also launched its own investigation through its Office of Institutional Equity and Diversity. The University’s Title IX coordinator will be working with an external investigative team — engaged by the University — which specializes in assisting colleges and universities with reports of sexual assault and misconduct. The Athletics Department is cooperating with all ongoing investigations and fully supports the University’s processes.

Any community member with information about this matter should directly contact the St. Louis Metropolitan Police Department at (314) 444-5385, SLU’s Department of Public Safety at (314) 977-2376, or the University’s Title IX Coordinator at (314) 977-3838. Additionally, any community member with questions about the University’s policies regarding sexual violence may contact the Title IX Coordinator.

Our process will be conducted in a thorough, fair and impartial manner.

So far the university's president and Title IX coordinator have done nothing to disassociate any of the findings from accusations of sexual assault (i.e., heinous rape) or proven to "fairly and impartially" protect the reputations of the accused.  They've been allowing the media to perpetuate a notion that these young men are dangerous sexual predators.  They should be ashamed of themselves, yet they've been patting themselves on the back.

[DeSmetBilliken]

21 minutes ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

When the school announces the "verdict," I hope they categorically refute any notion that the players were being investigated for "sexual assault."  They should say, "The Title IX investigation was not connected to sexual assault."  As it stands, these players' reputations and employability prospects have been severely tarnished.

For some reason I can't click the "good post" button, but this and your subsequent post are both excellent.

[Clock_Tower]

34 minutes ago, Old guy said:

Clock you must live in the other side of the moon. The more alternative different theories that get stated in from of the title IX officer the longer they will take to sort out, particularly if they make a plausible charge. I do not think this hearing officer is about to be convinced about any  number of alternative narrations that may be introduced into this process, particularly at this time, but I am sure any and all such alternative theories will be investigated thoroughly, with ample opportunity provided to file counters, complaints, addendums and appeals. If you have any hope of seeing any of these kids playing in next year's bills team, I suggest to stop this mental masturbation. We may be getting to the end of the process, whenever it comes. Your suggestions, if implemented, will be adding lots of extra time to the proceedings, for what end? Justice? Justice already went by the waside, what you have to deal with now is regulations and protocols. 

Correct. Alternative theories now would ensure the boys don’t play the whole season. Would never file the same now. Had the same been filed in September, I suggest the boys would not have missed a game or had their names trashed. And if I turned out to be wrong and the boys still would have been banned from games, they could dismiss in October/November and we would be in the same spot today. 

[Old guy]

That is entirely correct but the chance to do so is long past. It becomes a coulda, woulda, shoulda, type of thing, the regret of not having taken a course of action, rather that something viable that can be done now.

[Quality Is Job 1]

1 hour ago, DeSmetBilliken said:

For some reason I can't click the "good post" button, but this and your subsequent post are both excellent.

Thank you.

[TFord and TRavs]

Class starts soon. Decision time

[Clock_Tower]

1 hour ago, Old guy said:

That is entirely correct but the chance to do so is long past. It becomes a coulda, woulda, shoulda, type of thing, the regret of not having taken a course of action, rather that something viable that can be done now.

Agree. 

But relevant for future use. Though hope never needed. 

[Old guy]

Agree.