Fall 2017 allegations against unnamed players (aka Situation 2)

[Bobby Metzinger]

16 minutes ago, crymdg2 said:

 

 

First graph from Stu sheds a glimmer of hope, the second graph reads like a bad Ad Libs from a sixth grader on adderol. 

[moytoy12]

28 minutes ago, crymdg2 said:

 

 

NCHERM calls it a "bit unusual" but I call it the "gold standard". 

[DeSmetBilliken]

45 minutes ago, crymdg2 said:

 

 

I have to say, I like this as a new university slogan. "Saint Louis University: Not Unbelievable, But a Bit Unusual".

[William Kenneth]

As I believe has been stated previously, by imposing the player suspensions the University removed any sense of urgency to resolve the situation expeditiously and set this up to potentially drag on indefinitely.  Had the players, who to this point haven't been found guilty of ANYTHING been allowed to play, I believe the plaintiff(s) would have been clamoring for a decision ASAP (in an effort to keep them from playing) which would have resulted in one being made weeks, if not months, ago.

I also believe that SLU hoped that by dragging this out that the affected players would have found the impact to them untenable and resulted in them voluntarily leaving school/transferring by the semester break.  This would have provided SLU an "easy" out (i.e. point the finger at the players and move on OR make no decision at all because one isn't necessary since the players are gone).  But that didn't happen, and with the players still committed to the team and SLU, the University is now faced with continuing the "process" as we start the new year/semester.

[cheeseman]

4 hours ago, Old guy said:

Commenting on your comment, if the players were not allowed to play to maintain separation between players and accusers, then the accusers should not have been allowed to be present during games either. Fair is fair, whether it makes sense or not, right?

Obviously you have not read all the comments - the stuff you are attributing  to me as my positions are not mine at all - they are my points to refute the person I am responding to.  At this point I am not spending anymore time trying to get you to understand your mistake.

[STL Hoops Insider]

Has there been any social media outcry asking for a resolution?

[Quality Is Job 1]

3 minutes ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

Has there been any social media outcry asking for a resolution?

Nah.

[slufan13]

5 minutes ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

Has there been any social media outcry asking for a resolution?

Enjoy

https://twitter.com/search?f=tweets&vertical=default&q=%40slupresident&src=typd 

[billiken_roy]

pesty's twitter account is golden entertainment.   and i personally would like to buy john brown a beer.   

[kappy96]

39 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

pesty's twitter account is golden entertainment.   and i personally would like to buy john brown a beer.   

I’ve got the next round for Mr. Brown...he’s earned it 😂😂

[Old guy]

2 hours ago, cheeseman said:

Obviously you have not read all the comments - the stuff you are attributing  to me as my positions are not mine at all - they are my points to refute the person I am responding to.  At this point I am not spending anymore time trying to get you to understand your mistake.

I know you were not the author of the quote and that you were commenting on a quote from clock. I can't keep track of the bushels of stuff that have been posted here. I am not refuting your point either, I am adding to it. You want to suspend the guys, suspend the girls as well. It is fair, correct?

[cheeseman]

49 minutes ago, Old guy said:

I know you were not the author of the quote and that you were commenting on a quote from clock. I can't keep track of the bushels of stuff that have been posted here. I am not refuting your point either, I am adding to it. You want to suspend the guys, suspend the girls as well. It is fair, correct?

Yes

[AnkielBreakers]

I hate coming to this thread.  They are gone for the year.  If we could just get it over and done with it would be better.  I have little faith in the Catholic Church making any sane and rational decisions regarding sexual assault, and this is no exception.

[Billiken Rich]

7 minutes ago, AnkielBreakers said:

  I have little faith in the Catholic Church making any sane and rational decisions regarding sexual assault, and this is no exception.

I am about as Catholic as your average jihadi but even I'm tired of the entire religion being forever tarred with this kind of innuendo

[moytoy12]

41 minutes ago, Billiken Rich said:

I am about as Catholic as your average jihadi but even I'm tired of the entire religion being forever tarred with this kind of innuendo

The Catholic Church earned it, Rich. Raping little boys and girls and then covering it up in grand fashion allows for years/decades/centuries of scorn.  

I don’t believe for one second that you’re defending it. I get you think it’s tired.  But when an entity allows the rape of 7 year old boys then fuok it.  

[Clock_Tower]

3 hours ago, Old guy said:

I know you were not the author of the quote and that you were commenting on a quote from clock. I can't keep track of the bushels of stuff that have been posted here. I am not refuting your point either, I am adding to it. You want to suspend the guys, suspend the girls as well. It is fair, correct?

Victims should not be suspended. Had the boys accused the girls, then maybe a different story. Instead, someone decided not to make counter accusations and also either chose “‘time served” (which made them admit they are guilty of Title IX violations, made them appear cooperative, show the hearing officer/SLU they are owning their mistakes and not fighting back) or they chose to go along with this time served defense thinking it would be best (Rosenblum bad advice?)    Miss early season non conference games  (especially good for Graves) but be back for when things count - now. In reality, the accusers lawyered up, complicated things, 400 exhibits?? And are delaying  justice delayed they believe is justice served  

And no respected hearing officer, mediator etc would ever agree to render a decision within a certain time frame no matter what happens.

 

[SLU_Nick]

A small part of me feels like it’s taking so long bc the correspondence between player and SLU lawyers mirrors the messages on here between adman and wendelprof.  If I was a lawyer I’d charge about 2 hours per read email if they are like that 😆

[cheeseman]

9 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

Victims should not be suspended. Had the boys accused the girls, then maybe a different story. Instead, someone decided not to make counter accusations and also either chose “‘time served” (which made them admit they are guilty of Title IX violations, made them appear cooperative, show the hearing officer/SLU they are owning their mistakes and not fighting back) or they chose to go along with this time served defense thinking it would be best (Rosenblum bad advice?)    Miss early season non conference games  (especially good for Graves) but be back for when things count - now. In reality, the accusers lawyered up, complicated things, 400 exhibits?? And are delaying  justice delayed they believe is justice served  

And no respected hearing officer, mediator etc would ever agree to render a decision within a certain time frame no matter what happens.

 

The only problem with this is that if the video showed that it was consensual then the drinking and sex part is shared by both sides.  I am not so sure that the players accepted the "timed served" but really had no choice.  This has been a difficult case because it is easy to look like you are blaming the "victim" if you think the boys are getting an unequal deal.  In reality, if you try to weigh both sides you find yourself in the place where both parties share responsibility and thus there must be some consideration for this.  I just keep going back to the school leaving the players on campus and limiting only one side of the issue to a suspension of some sort but not concerned that the safety of the accuser is not potentially an issue.  The suspension from playing makes no sense in this context nor does it make sense to suspend or not suspend the accuser from some activities.  The other thing is using your position, then all people accused should simply claim that they were assaulted also and then you really foul up the process. 

[NextYearBill]

kick them out of school or let them play.... one or the other... then invent a time machine and make that choice 3 months ago. i F-ING hate SLU right now 

[kmbilliken]

The fact the parties have had the initial report for 3 weeks and none of the players have transferred, makes me think the initial report wasn't bad from the players perspective. If it were bad, I would advise them to transfer. If the initial report were bad, the odds of SLU going against it would be nill. However, just because the initial report wasn't bad doesn't mean they will get off light. SLU can certainly still decide the facts don't matter, they need to be punished severely. That would cover their ass in the court of public opinion, but screw the basketball program severely. That would be the standard SLU move. That is why I expect a bad outcome for the player's.

[Taj79]

In the meantime, Minnesota just suspended their standout center Reggie Lynch because of a second alleged accusation of sexual assault.  

I admit, I know nothing about this case except the guy is currently averaging 10 ppg, 8 rpgand 4 bpgn and was Big Ten Defensive POY last year.  Which means during the first allegation, he played, yes?  Now the investigation is complete and it recommends he should be suspended and banned from campus until 2020.  He is appealing and is allowed to remain in school and practice until a decision is made but I guess not play in games.

So he played while the investigation was underway I guess.  Now he's in limbo whereas SLU just kicks our guys into limbo where they appear to be content to leave them.  I guess imploring the school to make a decision is futile as such understanding is foreign to the powers that be.  Either way, I expect they'll lose their a**.  I think basic math tells me being sued by one or by three is an easy math problem as well.  Most times, amiable decision embraced by all is impossible.

And I also hope that every athlete everywhere learns from this just what the stupidity of trying to get laid means.  Te number of folks screwed in this scenario continues to grow exponentially.

[dlarry]

6 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

In the meantime, Minnesota just suspended their standout center Reggie Lynch because of a second alleged accusation of sexual assault.  

I admit, I know nothing about this case except the guy is currently averaging 10 ppg, 8 rpgand 4 bpgn and was Big Ten Defensive POY last year.  Which means during the first allegation, he played, yes?  Now the investigation is complete and it recommends he should be suspended and banned from campus until 2020.  He is appealing and is allowed to remain in school and practice until a decision is made but I guess not play in games.

So he played while the investigation was underway I guess.  Now he's in limbo whereas SLU just kicks our guys into limbo where they appear to be content to leave them.  I guess imploring the school to make a decision is futile as such understanding is foreign to the powers that be.  Either way, I expect they'll lose their a**.  I think basic math tells me being sued by one or by three is an easy math problem as well.  Most times, amiable decision embraced by all is impossible.

And I also hope that every athlete everywhere learns from this just what the stupidity of trying to get laid means.  Te number of folks screwed in this scenario continues to grow exponentially.

 A few pages back This was talked about and someone posted that they started the investigation in October. So not only did they not  go with the d guilty until proven innocent route they finished their case in a reasonable time frame. 

But then again Minniesota probably doesn't have the gold standard of title 9 investigators like St Louis U does. What a joke.

 

[kmbilliken]

I bet their gold standard is a 100% conviction rate. If you're accused, you're convicted. Golden.

[keyser soze]

8 minutes ago, kmbilliken said:

I bet their gold standard is a 100% conviction rate. If you're accused, you're convicted. Golden.

Take it a step further, hetro male - ELIMINATE!!!

[Quality Is Job 1]

@Taj79, I think the difference in the Minnesota case is that the accuser was not a student at Minnesota.  Thus there was no imminent danger or inconvenience to the accuser for the accused to remain active in campus activities.