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SLU, post-covid quarantine, is a Jeckyll & Hyde team, sometimes from game to game. The Good Billikens could reach the Sweet 16 of the NCAA, if allowed a seat at that table, or win the NIT. It's like dealing with the Bank. If you don't ask, the answer is always No. I say with emphasis, you don't opt out. You don't turn down the NIT, which is actually going to be a good tournament of 16 teams, with none this year being NIT automatic bids, low con regular season conference champions that didn't win their conference tournament. I realize the NIT is not the goal. It never is the goal. But it is a worthy, credible tournament. Pistol Pete Maravich played in the NIT. I think back to past SLU teams in my days of awareness of the program, even before that. A SLU alumnus from the late '60's told me about the '68 SLU team, that had 3 future Pro (meaning ABA/NBA) players (confirmed) in the starting lineup, 7'0" Rich Niemann, 6'7" (also listed at 6'9") Gene Moore, and 6'2" point guard Barry Orms, all Seniors, along with 6'4" Soph Joe Wiley. That SLU team went 15-11, 9-7, 4th Place in the then rugged MVC, no post-season play. That team lost to UCLA with Lew Alcindor at Pauley Pavilion. The nonconference schedule also included Missouri, Kansas, Iowa Re the NIT, I think of the first SLU teams of my awareness, in the early '70's under Coach Bob Polk, of Harry Rogers, a great Billiken (Javonte Perkins is Harry Rogers' second coming), who played on 3 really good SLU teams from '71 to '73. Harry Rogers' teams sole post-season game, if that is the proper term, was the '71 MVC Playoff game vs. Louisville at Bradley, when the MVC finished in a 3 way regular season tie, Drake, Louisville, and SLU. Those 3 teams with Harry Rogers went 54-27 vs. tough competition, including Notre Dame, Illinois, Missouri and 28-14 in the MVC, which included Louisville. Those 3 teams did not even get NIT bids. The Dark Ages of Billiken Basketball began after the '73 season, and lasted through the '85 season, 12 sub-.500 seasons. My seven (7) years at SLU were the last 7 years of those Dark Ages. We would have been happy for the Billikens to be over .500. We would have been near ecstatic for SLU to get to play in the NIT. Yes, times have changed. But they really haven't changed that much. Don't turn down a gift horse, even if it's a pony. Without knowing, I'm pretty sure the players would rather play basketball games against good teams on TV.

The city just shoved it in the Valley's ass on an over the top covid policy. I'm sure everyone else is wrong and the City of St Louis is right. Because the city of St Louis is so innovative and ahead of the curve on everything.

I agree with you that fans often make the mistake of assuming just because players get a year older doesn’t mean they will automatically get better. However, I disagree that we haven’t seen improvement historically. In fact it’s a lot easier to think of guys who did get better than players who didn’t. Demarius Jacobs was certainly a better player this year than last. His improvement was even more noticeable from freshman to sophomore year. His ballhandling has already improved. Fred Thatch missed an entire season and came back to be a better player than he was before his illness. His ballhandling has also noticeably improved. Hargrove went from being a 27% 3-point shooter to being a 43% 3-point shooter. Hard to consider that anything but improvement. Goodwin improved every element of his game from last year. His 3-point shooting improved each of his 4 seasons. Perkins improved his 3pt and FT shooting figures this year. He tripled his assists per game number. I consider that improvement. Yuri Collins improved his ft shooting and assists and lowered his turnovers. Yes, he still needs to shoot the ball better from 3. But his overall game certainly improved. As you noted, Javon Bess significantly improved as a shooter. On The House That Rick Built podcast he credited the coaching staff for giving him the tools and plan to improve that shooting and working with him in some of those 6am workouts you mention to improve. Davell Roby went from a mediocre player under dead to a good player under Ford. He improved in all areas.

I don't know. Both times I sold my multimillion dollar house it was because I had accepted a job in another city. I have to think Ford is either gone (Duke?) or is short on those bags of cash that we leave in the Chaifetz concourse for recruits.

Let's go through some examples. Goodwin got better each year that he was here. He wasn't putting up double-doubles at the beginning like he is now and his shot is greatly improved. I don't think that it is fair to blame the coaches for one player not improving, but credit a different players father for his obvious improvement. Also, I think that French did improve each year, but sometimes a bad shooting touch cannot be fixed. Hargrove couldn't even get on the court because he was so lost when he first arrived. His improvement is directly connected to the coaching staff. He is so much better defensively, his shot has improved, and his awareness in both the offense and defense is so much better. I think we would have seen more obvious improvement from Thatch had he not had his medical issues. That being said, he looks ready to turn the corner and be a major contributor next season. Thank you coaches for helping with that. Perkins had to transition from playing JUCO level guys to playing Division 1. Remember his first semester of playing. We were wondering if he would be a contributor. You cannot attribute the improvement he saw just to him. Again, you can't give the coaches all the blame for someone not developing and no credit when other players make improvement.

Just a little history on this OP: He is a Valpo fan, Valpo is changing their Crusader mascot due to pressure concerning the, alleged, less than ideal connotation that goes along with the term "crusader". He showed up when SLU first played valpo years ago and for some reason still pops in from time to time. It's weird to say the least.

i will be shocked if we play any kind of opponent that will greatly enhance our resume. the big boys now more than ever wont play as they will attest "we have nothing to gain" and the lesser programs are all going to be significanty below our already middling NET ranking. i will actually be amazed if we even play a game this week. so the question is will we actually go to the NIT or not imo.

It's the weeks of inactivity sitting in a room that sapped our players' energy, not testing positive for Covid. Ford got hit the worst. The symptoms some players experienced, per the Post Dispatch article, were minor. If we had resumed practice 10 days after testing positive, as most teams were allowed to do, we wouldn't be wringing our hands over bracketologists right now.

Co-sign, and I felt very much the same when we played in the 2010 CBI. I will gladly use any excuse to see our Billikens play more, particularly in a tournament format. Give some of the younger guys more of a chance to gel and use this as a springboard like the CBI did for Kwamain, Conk Diesel, and Cody. "They represent my alma mater, my school, and I'm very proud of both the school and the team." This, over and over and over.

Davidson should be a viable game. The A10 should help/intervene. Perhaps Davidson (NET 62) wants to protect its NIT Bid, and therefore would not be in favor of playing SLU. The issue for me with playing this extra game is SLU must win it. We don't know which SLU team will show up. This extra game seems like gambling. If we are really First 4 OUT, we probably have no other choice. Sitting idle isn't going to move any needle, is it? But St. Mary's experience (x2) is that the extra game did nothing.

I’d be more concerned that my school had to drop its law school, failed to sell/merge the law school, drop half of its athletics programs, defund the rest of them. All while playing in a high school gym and being on the verge of bankruptcy. Then I’d worry about a yellow and brown crusader.

Sir, this is a Wendy's.....

the day we become anything but a billiken i'm looking for a new alma mater.

That’s a clown question bro.

Another question: Why is Xavier (NET 57) getting all this deference? Xavier is 1-2 Quad 1, 5-5 Quad 2. I’ll give you the real reason, not the mumbo jumbo. The real reason is the New, now 11 school, Big East gets a minimum of 4 bids, and possibly 5. When St. John’s, NET 68, lurks this close, a Way is interestingly found to include the Johnnies and the #1 NYC TV Market. If SLU from the A10 was sitting there with that same NET as Xavier (57 rather than SLU’s 44), SLU would be out of all NCAA bubble lists, OUT, just like 62 Davidson.

34 Maryland and 67 Michigan State both finished below .500 (9-11) in Big Ten. MD is 14-12, Mich. State 15-11. Why do they get in ahead of SLU?

Drake played no one in the nonconference schedule, which included NAIA St. Ambrose, D-2 McKendree, Summit League "powers" 174 South Dakota (x2), 296 North Dakota, 324 Nebraska-Omaha, along with 203 Kansas State, 317 Air Force, and 346 Chicago State. Drake's only good Valley opponent was 16 Loyola Chicago, to whom Drake lost at home 81-54 and today on a neutral floor 75-65, in addition to a 2nd day home win in OT 51-50. If Drake gets an At Large bid ahead of SLU, the system will have been stood on its head.

I think everyone is underestimating next years team. We will have the best scorer in the league (assuming Bones goes pro). We will have the assist leader in the league. We will have a big man in Okoro who should be a dominant rim protector in the A-10. Jimerson should be a double figure scorer. Thatch will be an all-defense candidate. Jacobs looked like the A10 sixth man of the year before COVID/injuries. No A10 team other than maybe VCU will have the same depth as we do. I think the floor is top 4 in the conference. Any incoming transfers or massive improvement from someone like Strickland is pure upside on top of that.

Just put in an offer on Ford’s house at $4M under asking. Wish me luck...

This has to rank among the worst threads on this Board of all time.

All I know is these conference tournaments and March madness is going to be absolutely insane, and it is a lot more fun to be in the mix (even on the wrong side currently) than well out of contention. I can guarantee this crazy covid year will finish crazier than it started. I’ve been sick to my stomach thinking about how much Saturday sucked and how much this year has let me down. But my goodness do I take this over being absolutely mediocre (aka 00’-10’ and 14’-18’).

I added some info above to this in red with KenPom odds of various results. Path to the tournament is: 1. We schedule a decent Q1/Q2 game and win preferably on the road. 2. Nevada beats Boise St & they drop behind us. CSU demolishes Utah State when they meet in the semi-final which pushes Utah St behind us(?). In terms of realistic results, I think we've got to root for Boise as the early upset in the MWC because an upset of either CSU or Utah St probably just means that the other one has an easier path to a bid and that leaves us with 2 of 3 MWC bubble teams still making it. 3. NC State beats Cuse to keep them behind us & marginally boost our resume. 4. No other upsets occur that may shuffle this or steal bids We sneak into Boise State's spot? Our other hope is for similar results to play out without Boise losing and X loses to Butler which drops them behind us. If the NCAA gave MWC 4 bids and A10 only 2 that would be a travesty because A10 is stronger conference overall. Therefore, this may be a better path for us since I can't see all 3 MWC bubble teams making it. Other pitfalls: The next 2 teams behind us not listed above Seton Hall / St Johns play each other. One will be bounced from the bubble for sure. The other moves on to likely play Villanova (sans Collin Gillespie) or Marquette/G-Town winner. I could see a weakened Nova losing that game which would be bad for us. SMU has Cincinnati in their 1st AAC tourney game and then likely gets Wichita State in the next round. Not out of the realm of possibility they beat Wichita State, but that may just swap the teams positions IN or OUT. Ole Miss has to beat SC to get a game vs Arkansas in the SEC tourney. They'd need to beat the Razorbacks to move their needle. Likewise Memphis has the UCF/East Carolina winner before they'd likely play Houston. They need to beat Houston to move their needle. Won't give up hope yet! Why do I do this to myself...

To me the only reason to decline the NIT is if we are still having serious lasting covid effects. And maybe we do have some guys like that based on our play post-covid. If there is anything like that, I would say you have to decline the invite. But I'll let our staff make that determination. Otherwise I say play whatever basketball you can. This may make us less competitive but I also take a handful of minutes from Goodwin and French to let all the younger guys get more game reps.

Another thing re the NIT: It never looks good this week when you're trying/hoping/lobbying to get in the NCAA. But once the NIT begins, you want to win it. SLU won in with Easy Ed in '48 (when the NIT was considered the National Championship) and has finished as the runner-up three times, in '61 under Coach John Bennington (I was an infant), in '89 and '90 under Coach Rich Grawer. Those 2 NIT runner-ups under Coach Rich Grawer in '89 and '90 were special. The Billikens were on National TV at a time when they were barely on TV nationally. Out here on the Left Coast, I was largely in the dark during the regular season, looked for the one line score in the SF Examiner. We won at Wisconsin and beat Michigan State at Madison Square Garden in the NIT semifinals. I recall watching that Michigan State game at a San Francisco establishment. We wanted to win, badly. We fell just short, twice, once by 8 to St. John's, which was playing on its 2nd home court, the other to Vanderbilt 74-72. And after the NIT is over, as one looks back on the seasons, being in the NIT was/is a good thing, a positive. This being said, there is nothing in all of sports, in my opinion, like seeing your team play in the NCAA Tournament. (I was personally present for Game 6 of the '11 World Series, which ranks up there too.) The Billikens, we're the ultimate underdogs. They represent my alma mater, my school, and I'm very proud of both the school and the team.

I don't understand the question. People move within the same metro all the time. The market is nuts right now, but one way to cash in is to downsize. If he can get anywhere near asking on this listing, he'll have made close to a million dollars since buying it. Then the fact he'd (presumably) be going down a decent size - no one needs 10,000 SF, but especially when you're in the process of becoming empty nesters. So then he's got all that additional equity from the old place plus a less expensive house, lower taxes, etc. and he just put himself in a nice situation. If he's already moved then he might be carrying two mortgages for a while, but still.

The Billiken is the god of things as they ought to be - who has a better mascot... or god as far as it goes?

Coach's Show with Rammer: St. Bonaventure outplayed us. Give them credit. They were the #1 seed for a reason. He liked the effort for the other games last week. Played UMass twice in a week, with two wins. On the Monday extra game, Tre Mitchell is their X Factor. He is a tough matchup at 6'9". They played an aggressive style that we had to adapt to. We did well in the first half, but not as well in the second on their press. We didn't play great in the second half. A good win for us. Thatch and Hargrove played well in that game. TJ was very active, running the court being active. Thatch was getting back into form right before the pause. It took him a while to get back into it after the pause. Coach wasn't concerned about getting the 4th seed. A lot of people were talking about it, but all he wanted to do was beat UMass. Some people thought an extra game (with a W) would have been better than the double bye. Wasn't concerned about playing UMass back to back, until he was told that some conferences went to back to back games, and the first game Loser won the second game more than the Winner. Teams who lost make adjustments, where as the winners sometimes don't make as many adjustments. He believes that we played better for the entire 40 minutes than the previous game. Mitchell kept them in the game almost by himself. "I said some stupid stuff after the game. - We played at Robbins and they played at Siegel." We are still trying to figure out what happened. They had momentum, we didn't. Uncharacteristic for us, being outrebounded as bad as they did. We had 7 shots inside the circle in the first 10 minutes that weren't blocked and we missed. Jimerson hitting three 3's. What has he been going through. "Gibson had that look, he was locked in (against St. B). He played one of his better games, and I'm not talking about his shooting. His defense, how hard he was playing, his effort on offense, loose balls, etc. UMass didn't leave him. They left him no opportunities. Trying to add a game now is just like what we did with NC State. Had a game at Michigan that fell through at the very last minute. We had a team that needed a game, but they didn't have any more Non-conference games left. We are still looking. Our worst two losses, (Q3) were the first two games out of Covid. Some teams played okay coming out of Covid, but others didn't. [There were many games brought up by listeners. Coach said, we have talked to every team that 'you' have brought up.] The coaches will be watching tourney's and seeing who gets bounced early. There are teams that we could play that would not help us. He doesn't want to do that. Reputable people telling Coach that the lack of games will be held against us. Coach said we would accept a bid to the NIT if we don't make the NCAA. Show will be aired on KMOX tonight, or do what I did and watch it on Facebook.

1) because the market is insane right now. 2) his youngest is what, like 16 or so now. all the kids will likely be gone soon so might as well cash in.

I think playing both Mo state and a Belmont could help. You play 22 games on the season. MSU is 93rd and Belmont is 90th. I doubt any team we schedule unless its a Arizona would want to play at their home, so I'd think games would be Neutral. That said, it would add 2 Q2 games, and winning both would bring us back to mid 30's

Indiana State makes it official, Greg Lansing's contract will not be renewed. I believe the ISU Athletic Department read on this board that Ford has sold his house and they will be making an overture for him to move to Terre Haute.

For Maryland, they played only 6 non con games (because of the 20 game conference schedule). They beat three Q4 teams and 2 Q3 teams. The only “good” team the played was Clemson, who they lost to. In conference play, they didn’t even play a team not in the NET top 90 (other than Nebraska) you’re really going to congratulate them for having no “bad losses” when they have losses against Penn St, Northwestern, Indiana?? the reason they have no “bad losses” is because the NET props up bad teams in good conferences for playing good teams. Maryland played 18 Q1/Q2 games, went 6-12 We played 8 and went 4-4. Only reason they have more Q1/Q2 wins is because they play in the Big 10 where apparently even losing to 8-14 Northwestern can be considered a “good loss”

Well, Jim Crews currently has three times as many NCAA Tournament game victories as Travis Ford.

Men's Basketball: UMass, St Bonaventure Review, Postseason Outlook Women's Basketball: A10 Tournament Notes Men's Soccer: Columbia College and Lipscomb Review Women's Soccer: Oklahoma State Review Field Hockey: Impressive start to the season and Miami (OH) Recap Volleyball: Duquesne Recap Baseball and Softball Updates View the full article

I know Wright St, Belmont, Missouri St, etc don't really move the needle but all of those teams could have incentive to play if they think a win would get them a NIT bid. Yes ideally we could pick up a Q1 game here but we only have 2 wins against Q2 as well. Getting another Q2 game would be a win in my book. If we are truly willing to play a game, I would hope we aren't picky about it. I just don't see us getting a true needle-mover game so I'll take a Q2 game and hope the committee recognizes our willingness to play anyone anytime.

Don’t insult Ford.

How do we know they were “held hostage” by the City of St Louis? It’s not like we had one positive and then had to shut down the whole program. Basically everybody including our coach actually contracted the virus during that time.

I see the difference, but no reason we can’t have development from TJ, Dermarius, etc to be good ballhandlers. I personally expect TJ to be a game changer in coming years. He has NBA body for a SG, and if he can get more minutes while maintaining 40%+ 3pt... lookout.

Our team has gotten better every year under Travis. No need to feed the troll(s) on this one.

This didn't work for UNC-Greensboro two years ago and it shouldn't be allowed to work for Drake either.

We REALLY need NC State to beat Syracuse on Wednesday.

Not a lot of love/mentions of Linssen on this thread yet (or Jimmy Bell for that matter). But Linssen will be a big contributor to any success we have next year. Okoro may fit more directly into the French roll, but having the depth and different look that Linssen brings is an important asset.

ford is such a good recruiter (at least compared to all the head coaches since i started watching in ekkerball) he can be the worst game coach and i will take ford. at least we are guaranteed to have a chance to go places with ford with the talent i am betting he will always have. our track record of bringing in coaches is not very good. and every time you bring one in you are starting over. i dont like starting over. as far as i am concerned, we can stuggle through x's and o's till ford decides he is done with basketball. at least we know we will be in the post season discussion with coach ford. after what i have seen for 40+ years, i will take that. now 40 years more of almost billiken basketball, maybe then i will change my mind. but for now, ford's our guy. now that all said, if i want to ***** about his numbskull use (or lack therof) of his very talented roster, i think we can all do that. part of being a fan is second guessing the game and replaying everything that happened. those that dont like that, too bad. dont read my posts then please.

I agree 100%. I want Ford for the long-term. He has the program on the right track. Ford and stability is what this program needs, not another friggin coaching change. He's got this program at a 20+ win a season level and a chance at making the NCAA Tourney most years. That makes SLU one of the top mid-majors in the country. Until, or if, SLU ever gets a Big East invite ..... that is about as good as it gets. Dang people, be thankful, don't trash one of the best things the program has had going for it in decades!

This entire idea that Ford needs help with or isn't a good X's and O's coach is ridiculous.

23-8 and playing their best ball going into the A10 tournament. I do think they had a pretty decent chance with a win or 2.

@three star: Thatch may be a scorer but he has not shown me a consistent mid-range shot. He appears to be Goodwin-lite right now. Hargrove has shown me a three or a dunk. And that is all. Jacobs has shown little consistency. Collins is Dwayne Polk 2.0 right now. Jimerson WAS the shooter and died horribly. Are you telling me guys will get better because they are in the system another year? I remember hearing that years ago from kshoe. My counter to that is French and now Bell —- guys who were/are who they are since they got here. Maybe we’ll install an offense that is designed for our guys. That’s on Ford. Does he change and/or adapt? Only time will tell. And that will only be seen in 2022 when the usual crap OOC is done and gone. No UAPBs. No Central Arkansas. No NC A&Ts. Go with billikenbill —- I think he’s figured it out. The Billikens: they will always break your heart.

It means the thread's OP hasn't been paying attention to the board.

You win games you lose games. I’ve seen a lot of Billiken wins and I’ve seen a lot of losses. This was a heartbreaking loss. But at the end of the day all I want to focus on is how proud I am of these players. Jordan Goodwin and Hasahn French are absolute warriors. And they deserve all of our respect regardless of how this year turned out. I could not have more respect for them.

Schedule whoever loses Tuesday in the ACC tournament for a Thursday road game. Then schedule whoever loses Wednesday for a Saturday road game. Get it done. If not. Play the NIT. Next year: Okoro > French Thatch/Strickland replaces Goodwin Run plays for Jimerson! He should not shoot less than 10 times any game Hargrove/Jacobs can split time Yuri - Develop a shot....someone should tell him not to be Dwayne Polk Lorentson....be a stretch four like Loe. Bell - Eat some minutes. Linssen - Keep doing what you're doing.