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Yuri Collins to.....Grad Transfer


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@Lord Elrond: if your post is directed at me over asking for accounting figures, I get it.  The problem is that is a statement is left hanging out there without any challenge the statement, true or false, becomes true by default.  I am sure @thetorchis a reputable and valued poster and has all his facts in perfect alignment to support his statement.  I'd just like to see them as to solidify the statement's truth.

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35 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

@Lord Elrond: if your post is directed at me over asking for accounting figures, I get it.  The problem is that is a statement is left hanging out there without any challenge the statement, true or false, becomes true by default.  I am sure @thetorchis a reputable and valued poster and has all his facts in perfect alignment to support his statement.  I'd just like to see them as to solidify the statement's truth.

Sorry for the confusion. I have seen that figure before as well, but I also don’t know the source material it comes from so I can’t verify. 

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2 hours ago, ACE said:

For a fan base that holds the likes of locals Chris Sloan and Luke Meyer in such high regard, some of the derangement over Yuri is truly strange to me.

I don’t necessarily agree with it and I definitely think it’s over the top but I get it. He threatened to bail on the program at an awful time, he was the leader of what some consider a  very underachieving team, trying take over close games and failing.

when you are QB1 you are going to get most of the blame when things go bad.

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3 hours ago, ACE said:

For a fan base that holds the likes of locals Chris Sloan and Luke Meyer in such high regard, some of the derangement over Yuri is truly strange to me.

Why would it be strange?  Is that a serious comment?   When you are the key player on the local D1 team and hold them hostage for a ransom payment, you should expect some blowback.  The situation gets even worse when you underperform in that ransomed year. 

And why do you refer to Sloan and Meyer, but not Larry Hughes, or Roland G or M. Douglass or Erwin C, all of whom are locals and held in "high regard" by Billiken fans?

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23 minutes ago, bauman said:

Why would it be strange?  Is that a serious comment?   When you are the key player on the local D1 team and hold them hostage for a ransom payment, you should expect some blowback.  The situation gets even worse when you underperform in that ransomed year. 

And why do you refer to Sloan and Meyer, but not Larry Hughes, or Roland G or M. Douglass or Erwin C, all of whom are locals and held in "high regard" by Billiken fans?

Because it doesn't fit the not thinly veiled narrative. That's why. 

 

As to @slu72 maybe. It is certainly something that is now quantifiable in $ amounts. Whereas before that kinda issue (jealousy) was always there but it was in media attention and other less quantifiable ways.

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1 hour ago, bauman said:

Why would it be strange?  Is that a serious comment?   When you are the key player on the local D1 team and hold them hostage for a ransom payment, you should expect some blowback.  The situation gets even worse when you underperform in that ransomed year. 

And why do you refer to Sloan and Meyer, but not Larry Hughes, or Roland G or M. Douglass or Erwin C, all of whom are locals and held in "high regard" by Billiken fans?

Because the guys you mention were a LOT better than Sloan and Meyer.... and so was Yuri.

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1 hour ago, TheA_Bomb said:

Because it doesn't fit the not thinly veiled narrative. That's why. 

 

As to @slu72 maybe. It is certainly something that is now quantifiable in $ amounts. Whereas before that kinda issue (jealousy) was always there but it was in media attention and other less quantifiable ways.

B.S.

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A lot of jilted lovers in this thread. Yuri was a 4-year starter and all-time Billiken great at his position. Not good enough for some without the NCAAs, but it's still a team game. There's even a coach involved 😮

It's also not Yuri's fault if he was worth more than the other players. That's how it works now. This isn't "deserved blowback" - you're just airing your personal grievances while speculating about this or that. It now happens every 2-3 weeks or so under a different thread title 

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3 hours ago, bauman said:

Why would it be strange?  Is that a serious comment?   When you are the key player on the local D1 team and hold them hostage for a ransom payment, you should expect some blowback.  The situation gets even worse when you underperform in that ransomed year. 

And why do you refer to Sloan and Meyer, but not Larry Hughes, or Roland G or M. Douglass or Erwin C, all of whom are locals and held in "high regard" by Billiken fans?

One more thing to add - NONE of these other players you mention played during the NIL era. We don't know how they would have reacted. Perhaps some of them chase the money elsewhere. Erwin C. for example strongly flirted with leaving when there was a coaching change.

Yuri left for about a week, but DID return. It's sad that some grown men are butthurt over this.

Yuri stayed four years and played in his hometown, set some school records and twice led the nation in assists.  IF he had gone out of town, you can be certain, that there are plenty of fans who would have been bitching about Ford not landing him or about the kid going out of town.

 

 

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4 minutes ago, ACE said:

One more thing to add - NONE of these other players you mention played during the NIL era. We don't know how they would have reacted. Perhaps some of them chase the money elsewhere. Erwin C. for example strongly flirted with leaving when there was a coaching change.

Yuri left for about a week, but DID return. It's sad that some grown men are butthurt over this.

Yuri stayed four years and played in his hometown, set some school records and twice led the nation in assists.  IF he had gone out of town, you can be certain, that there are plenty of fans who would have been bitching about Ford not landing him or about the kid going out of town.

 

 

I understand your perspective Ace.  I just disagree with it.  

I would say, while He DID return.... the team that should have been markedly better from last season regressed greatly and I think it was a direct result of Yuri's me-first approach.  

And if you say he is so valuable, then he should certainly move up to the P6 level this coming season as a grad-transfer.  Right?  We will see what dumb coach is dumb enough to throw the keys to him.  

In any respect, I suspect he will not lead any team to any type of relevance because basketball coaches see his empty stats and bullfighter defense for exactly what they are.  

 

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2 minutes ago, SLU_Nick said:

I understand your perspective Ace.  I just disagree with it.  

I would say, while He DID return.... the team that should have been markedly better from last season regressed greatly and I think it was a direct result of Yuri's me-first approach.  

And if you say he is so valuable, then he should certainly move up to the P6 level this coming season as a grad-transfer.  Right?  We will see what dumb coach is dumb enough to throw the keys to him.  

In any respect, I suspect he will not lead any team to any type of relevance because basketball coaches see his empty stats and bullfighter defense for exactly what they are.  

 

The problem of roster construction and lack of guard depth with last year's team is more of a Ford problem than a Yuri problem. You can't enter a season with only one proven ballhandler, plus have very little front court depth. It's not Yuri's fault that Ford filled the last two scholarships with Cisse and Rivera. There was still room on the roster to add contributing players, especially in the portal era of free agency.

Also, I don't recall anyone questioning Yuri's "me-first" approach during his first three seasons.

Freshman season: The team is red hot as the season is closing, Top 50 NET & on the NCAA bubble - COVID shut the season down before the conference tournament. 50/50 chance that team makes the Dance.

Sophomore season: Team cracked the Top 25 at the close of non-conference schedule. The team is rolling, big wins over NC State and LSU - then Covid hits.

Junior season: Perk goes out for the year. Did anyone really think that was a Tournament team after that? Under the circumstances, I thought Yuri & GJ adopted and were outstanding.

Finally, regarding defense, it's tough when you are on a roster with basically no ballhandling depth. He had to constantly worry about getting in foul trouble. Is that a Yuri problem or a roster construction/depth problem?

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Calling Yuri me-first is down right hysterical. I'm ready for him to move on but not because I don't want him. I'm just tired of having to get on here and read a bunch of arm chair qbs critique a local billiken great. 

There's also a part of me that hopes he goes somewhere and tears it up just to prove a point but the other part of me hates that idea cause it'll just prove how disfunctional our team is. 

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40 minutes ago, SLU_Nick said:

I understand your perspective Ace.  I just disagree with it.  

I would say, while He DID return.... the team that should have been markedly better from last season regressed greatly and I think it was a direct result of Yuri's me-first approach.  

And if you say he is so valuable, then he should certainly move up to the P6 level this coming season as a grad-transfer.  Right?  We will see what dumb coach is dumb enough to throw the keys to him.  

In any respect, I suspect he will not lead any team to any type of relevance because basketball coaches see his empty stats and bullfighter defense for exactly what they are.  

 

How was the approach "me-first"? Did he suddenly start waving guys off and going ISO? He was basically the same player as the prior year--he shot a bit worse from 3 and FT, a bit better on 2-point shots, upped his assists and reduced his TOs. Yes, his defense wasn't as good, but he and Gibby were iron men and I don't think Ford wanted him wearing down or getting in foul trouble.

The other thing that confounds me.... Yuri has a younger brother who goes to almost every game. He averaged 30ppg as a soph. Why trash the older brother of a recruit who may be better!!! than was a 4-year starter? 

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I see a slew of valid points in every post.  With a lot of speculation thrown in.  And abject opinion.    We'll just never know.  

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13 hours ago, ACE said:

For a fan base that holds the likes of locals Chris Sloan and Luke Meyer in such high regard, some of the derangement over Yuri is truly strange to me.

This really sounds like you are calling all criticism of Yuri Collins racist?!?!? Meyer and Sloan were role players, who played out of position for the good of the team. Of course they are well liked. What that has to do with Yuri is beyond me.

The defense of Yuri has really gotten out of hand. I also like how its only Ok to criticize Ford if its in the context of Yuri. Outside of that Ford is also above criticism.

Many past Billikens stars have had had love/hate relationships with the fans.  It usually occurs earlier in their career though and as they get older they get more love.  I would say the two who would be similar to Yuri were Kwamain and Monroe Douglas.  

All 3 of them set high bars early in their career.  All 3 of them rode hype trains into their final seasons.  Collins was a pre-season POY pick.  Mitchell & Douglas as well.  None of them got better.  They never expanded their game.  Douglas grew to dislike Grawer and didn't put in enough effort on the defensive end.  Mitchell lost a season and lost a step and got passed up by his teammates.  Collins never expanded his game offensively and again regressed defensively.  They all had a peak and that peak was reached sophomore or Jr year when it should have been their senior years.  Just not how it breaks for everyone's career.  I still like Collins, just like Douglas and Mitchell.  I can also recognize that their careers plateauing cost SLU success on the court.  If Douglas remains a top wing scorer, stays in shape, and plays a little defense SLU makes 2 tournaments.  If Mitchell didn't get suspended and remained that vibrant lead guard in crunch time we probably make a sweet 16.  If Collins remained a 2-way force and shot and finished just a little better we probably make the tournament.

Collins will be remembered differently because of the way his career ended.  He still has all the national accolades and maybe he is a better player than someone like Dwayne Evans or Jordair but his legacy at SLU will never be as great.

 

 

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10 hours ago, thetorch said:

This really sounds like you are calling all criticism of Yuri Collins racist?!?!? Meyer and Sloan were role players, who played out of position for the good of the team. Of course they are well liked. What that has to do with Yuri is beyond me.

The defense of Yuri has really gotten out of hand. I also like how its only Ok to criticize Ford if its in the context of Yuri. Outside of that Ford is also above criticism.

Many past Billikens stars have had had love/hate relationships with the fans.  It usually occurs earlier in their career though and as they get older they get more love.  I would say the two who would be similar to Yuri were Kwamain and Monroe Douglas.  

All 3 of them set high bars early in their career.  All 3 of them rode hype trains into their final seasons.  Collins was a pre-season POY pick.  Mitchell & Douglas as well.  None of them got better.  They never expanded their game.  Douglas grew to dislike Grawer and didn't put in enough effort on the defensive end.  Mitchell lost a season and lost a step and got passed up by his teammates.  Collins never expanded his game offensively and again regressed defensively.  They all had a peak and that peak was reached sophomore or Jr year when it should have been their senior years.  Just not how it breaks for everyone's career.  I still like Collins, just like Douglas and Mitchell.  I can also recognize that their careers plateauing cost SLU success on the court.  If Douglas remains a top wing scorer, stays in shape, and plays a little defense SLU makes 2 tournaments.  If Mitchell didn't get suspended and remained that vibrant lead guard in crunch time we probably make a sweet 16.  If Collins remained a 2-way force and shot and finished just a little better we probably make the tournament.

Collins will be remembered differently because of the way his career ended.  He still has all the national accolades and maybe he is a better player than someone like Dwayne Evans or Jordair but his legacy at SLU will never be as great.

 

 

Bringing race into this? wtf! If it makes you feel better, instead of the beloved Meyer and Sloan, think of an African-American player from the past whose popularity outweighed his production due to being perceived as a blue collar, over-achieving role player and my point stands. 

I would submit that the criticism of Collins has gotten out of hand - how many different threads need to be started saying the same thing?

Regarding Ford criticism, I'm not sure who you're talking about it, but it's not me. I had a debate with others last summer when we were sitting on that last scholarship - I was sounding the warning bells that Ford needed to add a combo guard. Several folks, most vocally 3-star told me that we didn't need another guard. Instead, we got Daniel Rivera.

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On 5/22/2023 at 2:32 PM, Lord Elrond said:

Something killed the Tennessee deal, Yuri did play here last year instead of Knoxville

The fact that Yuri wouldn't have been the starting point guard at Tennessee probably had a lot to do with it.

Also, I highly doubt Tennessee would pay a sub $250k. 

 

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