Billy Ken Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 The board and administrators should really be doing some soul searching right now. Ask themselves if they really deserve or are capable enough to be on a university board like SLU's? Are they just there for the title? All the VP's should seriously look at themselves in the mirror too. Across the whole landscape people internally and externally need a come to Jesus moment. The athletic department is stagnant and overall not as healthy as it was 10 years ago, yet same people stay in charge. Pestello needs to clean house and reboot athletics. Anyone that has been there longer than 2 years needs to go, they make mistake after mistake over the years and then university asks same people to fix the mistakes they created! Definition of insanity. Businesses do this all the time. Go get an outsider from business world, cleannhouse and run department properly. Some of the most successful programs got their ADs from outside athletics. Any good power 5 assistant AD isn't leaving power 5 pool for SLU. Just my two cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmbilliken Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 The administration can step in. They stepped in in the overnight bag case to overrule a ridiculous decision. They need to be more proactive here and dictate they want to receive the appeal decision first, review it and if it is unfair overrule it. If they wait like they did in the overnight bag case it will have the same effect as affirming it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 10 minutes ago, Billy Ken said: The board and administrators should really be doing some soul searching right now. Ask themselves if they really deserve or are capable enough to be on a university board like SLU's? Are they just there for the title? All the VP's should seriously look at themselves in the mirror too. Across the whole landscape people internally and externally need a come to Jesus moment. The athletic department is stagnant and overall not as healthy as it was 10 years ago, yet same people stay in charge. Pestello needs to clean house and reboot athletics. Anyone that has been there longer than 2 years needs to go, they make mistake after mistake over the years and then university asks same people to fix the mistakes they created! Definition of insanity. Businesses do this all the time. Go get an outsider from business world, cleannhouse and run department properly. Some of the most successful programs got their ADs from outside athletics. Any good power 5 assistant AD isn't leaving power 5 pool for SLU. Just my two cents. ive been a part of the billiken fandom since 1978 and it seems we have been rebooting every 3-5 years since. i am tired and questioning why i am a billiken. brianstl, SLUDrew, TRN and 2 others like this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU_Nick Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 I honestly do not think facts matter here at all. The school doesnt want to be put in the public crosshairs like Michigan St. They will easily choose ruining the lives of 4 players when faced with the opposite consequence of trying to explain that a "victim" in 2018 does not understand what sexual assault actually is. I will be absolutely shocked if something is overturned. Slu let the dogs out? likes this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Ken Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, billiken_roy said: ive been a part of the billiken fandom since 1978 and it seems we have been rebooting every 3-5 years since. i am tired and questioning why i am a billiken. I totally get everything you said. I question myself everyday since the beginning of basketball season this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidnark Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 I don't know what the outcome will be and when this will be over, but I have heard that this situation has acute visibility at the highest levels and there is pressure to achieve a fair result for all involved, not just the accuser. If Goodwin is run off from this, I wouldn't be surprised if Fred's house of cards takes a tumble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 fan Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, davidnark said: I don't know what the outcome will be and when this will be over, but I have heard that this situation has acute visibility at the highest levels and there is pressure to achieve a fair result for all involved, not just the accuser. If Goodwin is run off from this, I wouldn't be surprised if Fred's house of cards takes a tumble. Based on my discussions with people who are a lot closer to the situation than me, I think Fred's days are numbered, irregardless of the outcome. He's been shown to be in over his head. Some thought so after the BLM move on campus a few years ago, and this has sent many others over the edge. I don't know when his contract expires, but I'd be shocked if it is renewed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 1 minute ago, slu72 fan said: Based on my discussions with people who are a lot closer to the situation than me, I think Fred's days are numbered, irregardless of the outcome. He's been shown to be in over his head. Some thought so after the BLM move on campus a few years ago, and this has sent many others over the edge. I don't know when his contract expires, but I'd be shocked if it is renewed. I've heard this multiple times. I do not believe it. This will pass and things will be as they were. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindellWest Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, davidnark said: I don't know what the outcome will be and when this will be over, but I have heard that this situation has acute visibility at the highest levels and there is pressure to achieve a fair result for all involved, not just the accuser. If Goodwin is run off from this, I wouldn't be surprised if Fred's house of cards takes a tumble. Pestello must go. Where are the Fred apologists now that would jump in as if summoned every time a crtiticism was levied on the admin? Shouldn't someone be throwing some asinine quote from a dead guy in Freds defense? Dude has failed as a leader, and to trust that any future results will be different would be foolish. He should be replaced with someone who brings an expectation of success. No more chances to fail SLU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU_Lax Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 5 minutes ago, RiseAndGrind said: I've heard this multiple times. I do not believe it. This will pass and things will be as they were. I would assume it will boil down to money. If the number of donations drops, it may simply be blamed on tax reform (or any number of non-Pestello factors). If big-time donors demand a change in leadership (and withhold their money until a change occurs), then a change will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrockL Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 4 minutes ago, SLU_Lax said: I would assume it will boil down to money. If the number of donations drops, it may simply be blamed on tax reform (or any number of non-Pestello factors). If big-time donors demand a change in leadership (and withhold their money until a change occurs), then a change will happen. Pestello already shown a weakness when it comes to fundraising. Heck, SLU brought back Biondi last year to help raise funds -- http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/education/he-s-back-biondi-returns-to-slu/article_b79802e1-d5f6-56da-826e-3ffa9fcb6b7a.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tilkowsky Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 11 hours ago, HoosierBilliken said: The orgy survivor's attorney had mentioned that this was sexual assault. That is slander. The players are accused of Invasion of Privacy per Missouri State Statute. Furthermore, there has to be "an expectation of privacy" in order for a violation of this to occur. I pose a question. If a girl chooses to participate in group sex, then how many people have to be part of the group before there is no expectation of privacy? 5? 7? 10? 20? 100? I pose another question. If a street hooker gets paid for sex and does this act in front of 5 people, does she have a reasonable expectation of privacy? In other words, does a college girl with money have more privacy than a street hooker desperate for money during a group sex outing? I don't know. The orgy survivor's attorney said, "If they don't agree and they don't have any way to stop what is happening, there is no consent." Were they mutes and incapable of saying "stop videotaping me." Apparently, they said nothing. Tilkowsky, no one is saying the players, or the girls, were acting like upstanding citizens. What should bother everyone is SLU's incompetence in ensuring public confidence that the adjudication was carried out impartially. The player that videotaped the scene may have been rude, but did not violate the law. SLU still will probably expel him based upon how rude that was to do. The other players that did no more than laugh or not stop the one player from videotaping the girl having group sex definitely did not violate anything, yet they are suspended too? Why? Completely an overreach. If there is more to the situation that could convince me that these gentlemen deserved such lengthy suspensions, I will listen but so far all I see is little more than hurt feelings and embarrassment and regret and lots and lots of money being lost by SLU in federal court. Bobby Metzinger - I never said Ford should be fired for this situation. If it happens again. A Situation 3. Ford should be gone. Coaches are and should be held accountable for their recruits actions. If coaches aren't held accountable then who is accountable for the actions of recruits? Clocktower - The question I was asked was why the players were suspended? The answer is that they were charged with sexual assault. I have never equated being charged with being guilty. I have said that the players are responsible for being in this position (doesn't equate to them being guilty). They CHOSE to have an orgy, film it and then post it online. If you say only one filmed and posted it online - the other three didn't tell him to stop filming or not post it online. That is where I think the other three now have the majority of their trouble. Everyone on this board extolled the virtues of Scott Rosenblum that he would get the guys off. How is that working out for you? If you go on about how he is a Criminal Defense Attorney and not an experienced Title IX attorney maybe they hired the wrong guy? At least he kept them out of jail? HoosierBilliken - I think you gloss over one thing. Is this type of behavior acceptable for SLU Varsity basketball players? I wouldn't think so, Actually I don't think it is acceptable for any SLU student enrolled in classes and on University property. SLU wants to send a message to it's students that filming sexual encounters and posting them online is unacceptable. Exactly how was SLU incompetent? Are they incompetent because you don't like the outcome? Pestelo blew Occupy Saint Louis. As soon as that happened he should have called Mayor Slay and told him there were trespassers on his campus and get them off. Now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basketbill Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Not an apologist, but I view this as golf. The round ain’t over, in all honesty we do not know the details. If the appeals process plays out and remedies the wrong done by Weathers, then what Pestello did wrong was letting it drag out too long. Having the outside investigation was a sound move, but the process that was in place with a single hearing officer was flawed. If Pestello directs a more benevolent decision, that does indeed provide fairness to all. He can come out of this looking like a champion for both men and women. As well as avoiding many lawsuits, though perhaps not all. Women have sons too, they will look kindly on a result that helps correct a wrong but does not harm a students future. He can survive this, he has to decide wisely. In essence he has to chip in from the fairway.... The occupy St. Louis event that he was handed in his first months is over get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LindellWest Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 2 minutes ago, Basketbill said: Not an apologist, but I view this as golf. The round ain’t over, in all honesty we do not know the details. If the appeals process plays out and remedies the wrong done by Weathers, then what Pestello did wrong was letting it drag out too long. Having the outside investigation was a sound move, but the process that was in place with a single hearing officer was flawed. If Pestello directs a more benevolent decision, that does indeed provide fairness to all. He can come out of this looking like a champion for both men and women. As well as avoiding many lawsuits, though perhaps not all. Women have sons too, they will look kindly on a result that helps correct a wrong but does not harm a students future. He can survive this, he has to decide wisely. In essence he has to chip in from the fairway.... The occupy St. Louis event that he was handed in his first months is over get over it. How at this stage can he come out looking like a champion? Does he have a time machine? CBFan likes this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 fan Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, Basketbill said: Not an apologist, but I view this as golf. The round ain’t over, in all honesty we do not know the details. If the appeals process plays out and remedies the wrong done by Weathers, then what Pestello did wrong was letting it drag out too long. Having the outside investigation was a sound move, but the process that was in place with a single hearing officer was flawed. If Pestello directs a more benevolent decision, that does indeed provide fairness to all. He can come out of this looking like a champion for both men and women. As well as avoiding many lawsuits, though perhaps not all. Women have sons too, they will look kindly on a result that helps correct a wrong but does not harm a students future. He can survive this, he has to decide wisely. In essence he has to chip in from the fairway.... The occupy St. Louis event that he was handed in his first months is over get over it. If there's a change from the Appeal Panel, it won't be because Fred caused it. First, the original decision and penalties are incorrect given the girl's attorney's statement. Second, this is above Fred's pay level now. The University has much at stake now, and others are involved, in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kappy96 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Not surprising as the representatives from either side wouldn't want to incriminate their clients, but neither statement mentions alcohol as a factor when discussing consent. I wonder where that falls in the consideration set of Weathers and the crack Title IX team when trying to justify their position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikenbooster Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 3 hours ago, Clock_Tower said: Even a blind squirrel finds an acorn once in awhile. Finally, you wrote something true. Charge = Guilty in both your mind, and apparently in the mind of Hearing Officer Weathers. Assume Ms. Wethers confirmed the outside counsel's investigation/memo/report. SLU: # release the memo STOP RESPONDING. DONT READ HIM. IGNORE HIM. THEN i WONT BE DUPED INTO SECOND HAND READING HIS TRASH mhg 2010andBeyond likes this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 2 hours ago, SLU_Lax said: I would assume it will boil down to money. If the number of donations drops, it may simply be blamed on tax reform (or any number of non-Pestello factors). If big-time donors demand a change in leadership (and withhold their money until a change occurs), then a change will happen. meanwhile the quickest and best rebuild of a down billiken roster will have been run off for no good reason and we will again be rebuilding the billiken program from the lowest point. if there was a reasonable and deserved reason these players were forced to leave, that is one thing. we should do the right thing. but honestly after reading the cheerleaders statement via her attorney this whole trainwreck should have been avoided and was created soley by slu administration and magnified by the over the top and biased decisions of krafty and stormy. not only will the only revenue producing sport be more or less given the death penalty, the school will suffer tremendously from boosters and benefactors running away as fast as they can and for the deserved lawsuits that are coming saint louis university way. i would hope we have some fair level headed people in high places that can either talk some sense in pesty, krafty and stormy or if they wont listen, will just take over and do the right thing. but honestly we are running out of time as two of the players have already thrown in the towel, left campus and likely beginning the steps to start their legal work and the other two are only a stand firm on the punishment decision from following. please, will someone with some sense and connections get involved? kshoe likes this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David King Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 2 hours ago, Tilkowsky said: Bobby Metzinger - I never said Ford should be fired for this situation. If it happens again. A Situation 3. Ford should be gone. Coaches are and should be held accountable for their recruits actions. If coaches aren't held accountable then who is accountable for the actions of recruits? Clocktower - The question I was asked was why the players were suspended? The answer is that they were charged with sexual assault. I have never equated being charged with being guilty. I have said that the players are responsible for being in this position (doesn't equate to them being guilty). They CHOSE to have an orgy, film it and then post it online. If you say only one filmed and posted it online - the other three didn't tell him to stop filming or not post it online. That is where I think the other three now have the majority of their trouble. Everyone on this board extolled the virtues of Scott Rosenblum that he would get the guys off. How is that working out for you? If you go on about how he is a Criminal Defense Attorney and not an experienced Title IX attorney maybe they hired the wrong guy? At least he kept them out of jail? HoosierBilliken - I think you gloss over one thing. Is this type of behavior acceptable for SLU Varsity basketball players? I wouldn't think so, Actually I don't think it is acceptable for any SLU student enrolled in classes and on University property. SLU wants to send a message to it's students that filming sexual encounters and posting them online is unacceptable. Exactly how was SLU incompetent? Are they incompetent because you don't like the outcome? Pestelo blew Occupy Saint Louis. As soon as that happened he should have called Mayor Slay and told him there were trespassers on his campus and get them off. Now! Listen troll- I hold the title of worse poster here! Don't try an dethrone me! Please go away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FromDaEastSide Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Looks like Fred is going to DC. Think he will meet with any Title IX lawyers about S2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juniorbill76 Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 3 minutes ago, FromDaEastSide said: Looks like Fred is going to DC. Think he will meet with any Title IX lawyers about S2. I hope he brings a stack of resumes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBFan Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 9 minutes ago, FromDaEastSide said: Looks like Fred is going to DC. Think he will meet with any Title IX lawyers about S2. Freddy does not want to hear Fire Pestello at the game on Saturday so he would rather work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Just now, CBFan said: Freddy does not want to hear Fire Pestello at the game on Saturday so he would rather work. Fred can be home on Monday and then be available for the decision. He will have to be available or else he will be making an even bigger mess then he has. A leader has to be ready to stand up and face the lion's den if he won't do that then he is clearly finished - if you are afraid to lead then you can not lead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheltiedave Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Roy, Krafty and Stormy Weathers were handed the keys to a kingdom. They totally rewrote the student code of conduct, and especially the section pertaining to sexual conduct under Title IX purview. They then created the HO position and charged her with complete Star Court power, rolling prosecutor, lawyer, judge, and jury into one single person. Then they sought and trained only specifically selected people to be T9 coordinators. they ensured the procedures and process they wrote would so narrow the scope of any subsequent appellant process, that it would be rendered moot, as long as the process was followed, and all testimony was documented. This completely nullifies the accuseds’ 6th Admendment rights, skips over commonwealth rules of law, and disallows any judgement by a jury of ones’ peers, as well as proper legal oversight. It is a gold standard for a kangaroo court in all regards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slu let the dogs out? Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 54 minutes ago, CBFan said: Freddy does not want to hear Fire Pestello at the game on Saturday so he would rather work. NM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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