Departing Billiken Players via the Portal - 2025

[Old guy]

11 hours ago, WVBilliken said:

Agree 100%.  Thames has talent, the right attitude and if healthy ..... will start or be first off the bench.  Praying the miracles of modern medicine resolve his medical condition.

Pray all you want, you are talking about the state of medical care in the XII century, the time of the black plague and the crusades. Do not forget the incense, the more the better. By the way, the XII Century happened well before the founding of the Jesuits.

As I mentioned in my prior post there are scores of "orphan diseases." These diseases are hard and expensive to diagnose and have no treatment because it costs lots of money to develop any effective treatment for any newly defined disease. A disease that may have a few hundred people suffering from it in a countrywide or even worldwide basis will never cover the expenses for developing an effective treatment or even the diagnosis, it is wasted money. Pharmaceutical companies will never recover the development costs for treatment or even the diagnostic expenses of "orphan diseases." Money is king. You do know this but probably do not like to accept it. 

Without a treatment that works, Thames is not a player, he is a charity case. Reality has to be accepted as raw as it may be, in order to get where we all want to go. You can throw all the money you want on charity case players and not move an inch from our usual 4th place or so in the A10 by the end of our season.

We will never see SLU winning an NCAA Sweet 16 until we sweep all non playing players / charity cases out of the roster.  Let's do as Majerus did, keep charity cases out of the basketball team, and donate your charity money to a worthwhile charity like the Shriners.

[2010andBeyond]

5 hours ago, Crewsorlose said:

I think people on the board are minimizing the Dotzler news. He was definitely a top 7 rotation guy before all of the injuries to the team. He was slated to be a starter when McCotry was nailed to the bench and Warlick was told to redshirt. He was also a strong HS player who went to a perennial tourney team in Creighton who was top 25 his frosh year. He came to SLU to play and develop his game.

Unless the injury is horrific, in which case it's unethical to run him out, I'd bet almost 100% that it was his choice to leave. And it reflects negatively on Schertz that Dotzler is leaving. Dotzler is precisely the kind of talent that should come here and develop. 

Casey looked incredibly unathletic in every appearance and it appears unlikely he makes an impact anywhere below low-major. No surprise. Assuming Brockhoff is next.

I personally like Schertz but I think his job is on the line over the next month. If he can't bring in talent now, he never will. And if he can't convince guys to stay now, he never will. 

Dotzler’s market value is at an all time low. He basically hasn’t played in 2 years and is coming off of a major injury. Schertz and staff have more insight into his pre-injury ceiling and the details of his injury than essentially anyone else. If SLU thought he was an important piece for next year they in theory should be able to get him to return without much of a financial commitment. Most likely scenarios point to either non renewal or very low renewal offer and Dotzler realizes he should test the waters/go somewhere for personal reasons if he’s not getting paid either way. Neither scenario gives me any pause. 
 

Also, this is pro sports now. If Schertz is paying someone who is too injured to contribute, he should be fired on the spot. 

[slubillikens43]

9 minutes ago, 2010andBeyond said:

Dotzler’s market value is at an all time low. He basically hasn’t played in 2 years and is coming off of a major injury. Schertz and staff have more insight into his pre-injury ceiling and the details of his injury than essentially anyone else. If SLU thought he was an important piece for next year they in theory should be able to get him to return without much of a financial commitment. Most likely scenarios point to either non renewal or very low renewal offer and Dotzler realizes he should test the waters/go somewhere for personal reasons if he’s not getting paid either way. Neither scenario gives me any pause. 
 

Also, this is pro sports now. If Schertz is paying someone who is too injured to contribute, he should be fired on the spot. 

I agree with all of this. The guy IS married. Go get some more money if you can. Even if for some reason you can stay and play.

[wgstl]

5 hours ago, Crewsorlose said:

I think people on the board are minimizing the Dotzler news. He was definitely a top 7 rotation guy before all of the injuries to the team. He was slated to be a starter when McCotry was nailed to the bench and Warlick was told to redshirt.

After seeing this team, being top 7 isn’t that impressive. 

[Scoop]

Not retained.  Move on and spend some cash.

[WVBilliken]

 

11 hours ago, Old guy said:

Pray all you want, you are talking about the state of medical care in the XII century, the time of the black plague and the crusades. Do not forget the incense, the more the better. By the way, the XII Century happened well before the founding of the Jesuits.

As I mentioned in my prior post there are scores of "orphan diseases." These diseases are hard and expensive to diagnose and have no treatment because it costs lots of money to develop any effective treatment for any newly defined disease. A disease that may have a few hundred people suffering from it in a countrywide or even worldwide basis will never cover the expenses for developing an effective treatment or even the diagnosis, it is wasted money. Pharmaceutical companies will never recover the development costs for treatment or even the diagnostic expenses of "orphan diseases." Money is king. You do know this but probably do not like to accept it. 

Without a treatment that works, Thames is not a player, he is a charity case. Reality has to be accepted as raw as it may be, in order to get where we all want to go. You can throw all the money you want on charity case players and not move an inch from our usual 4th place or so in the A10 by the end of our season.

We will never see SLU winning an NCAA Sweet 16 until we sweep all non playing players / charity cases out of the roster.  Let's do as Majerus did, keep charity cases out of the basketball team, and donate your charity money to a worthwhile charity like the Shriners.

Very entertaining rant indeed.  But clearly you have no clue about Thames' condition.  It may be resolved already.  Praying it is.  If not, I trust Schertz to do the right thing for the young man.

[billikenfan05]

6 minutes ago, WVBilliken said:

 

Very entertaining rant indeed.  But clearly you have no clue about Thames' condition.  It may be resolved already.  Praying it is.  If not, I trust Schertz to do the right thing for the young man.

Easy man, Old Guy stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. 

[billikenfan05]

Bottom line is Rick Majerus did right by Femi John when injuries derailed his career. Josh Schertz should apply that same mentality to Thames.

Old Guy wants to take Thames out back and treat him like Lenny. That tells me everything I need to know about OG as a person.  

[BrettJollyComedyHour]

6 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

Bottom line is Rick Majerus did right by Femi John when injuries derailed his career. Josh Schertz should apply that same mentality to Thames.

Old Guy wants to take Thames out back and treat him like Lenny. That tells me everything I need to know about OG as a person.  

Dude what is it with you and Of Mice and Men recently? Lol

[Lord Elrond]

10 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

Bottom line is Rick Majerus did right by Femi John when injuries derailed his career. Josh Schertz should apply that same mentality to Thames.

Old Guy wants to take Thames out back and treat him like Lenny. That tells me everything I need to know about OG as a person.  

 

[billikenfan05]

9 minutes ago, BrettJollyComedyHour said:

Dude what is it with you and Of Mice and Men recently? Lol

I’m gon’ tend da wrabbits, George.

[ACE]

42 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

Easy man, Old Guy stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night. 

Am I the only one on here who has always thought OG is a troll? This guy can't be real, can he?

[Old guy]

1 hour ago, WVBilliken said:

 

Very entertaining rant indeed.  But clearly you have no clue about Thames' condition.  It may be resolved already.  Praying it is.  If not, I trust Schertz to do the right thing for the young man.

You are missing the following points:\

1, No one knows what Thames disorder is. It may be because a full diagnosis will cost more than their guidelines allow. You do not have a clue either about what he has, except that it produces severe cramps. And no, Thames condition is not resolved, you can bet on this.

2. Prayer did not stop the spread of the black plague in the Middle Ages when 40% of the population in Europe died from it. 

3. Schertz job is to put together winning team, not to show compassion to the players. He will do what he will do when he does it.

 

[TRN]

Keeping Thames on the team will help win games, even in a limited role. If he can play 10 minutes a game or once a week for load management, his skill set is very valuable to SLU.

Our roster can go up to 15 players instead of 13, so he’s not taking another player’s spot.  If anything, bump the walkons off the roster if you need to make space.

Lastly, Thames’s health issue sounds like what Fred Thatch went through, and it is not the plague.  

[billikenfan05]

1 hour ago, ACE said:

Am I the only one on here who has always thought OG is a troll? This guy can't be real, can he?

He can be both. 

[billikenfan05]

It is bad form to cast off a local basketball player because he’s suffering from a medical anomaly. It is in SLU’s best interest to be compassionate and accommodating to Kellen Thames. It’s also just the right thing to do ethically. And that doesn’t necessarily mean he has to be on athletic scholarship, I’m sure there are many avenues with which to help Thames if he can no longer play basketball at a certain level. SLU should be doing those things. 
 

These are young men(or women) going through major life changes.  I don’t have any reason to doubt the level headedness of Kellen Thames and his family, but look at the cautionary tales out there of athletes cast off because they couldn’t do the thing anymore. Boobie Miles for example. Shredded his knee, was cast off by Permian and landed on the slippery slope to prison. 
 

I for one truly think Thames will be back at near, if not full capacity next season. But as others have speculated, you don’t often find players with his talents willing to play 10-15 minutes a game. 

[gobillsgo]

28 minutes ago, TRN said:

Keeping Thames on the team will help win games, even in a limited role. If he can play 10 minutes a game or once a week for load management, his skill set is very valuable to SLU.

Our roster can go up to 15 players instead of 13, so he’s not taking another player’s spot.  If anything, bump the walkons off the roster if you need to make space.

Lastly, Thames’s health issue sounds like what Fred Thatch went through, and it is not the plague.  

Plus it has the added benefit of being a built an excuse every year when he ends up out for the season.  “Coach said he was going to be a big part of the team this year, there could’ve been no way to prepare for his loss!” *eye roll*.   I call that the Ford Special, he loved having that built in injury excuse-  Welmer, Thatch, Thames.  
 

Old guy’s delivery is terrible, per usual, but his point isn’t without merit.  College hoops is now a business and if a player can’t get healthy eventually you have to move on.   

 

[brianstl]

1 minute ago, billikenfan05 said:

It is bad form to cast off a local basketball player because he’s suffering from a medical anomaly. It is in SLU’s best interest to be compassionate and accommodating to Kellen Thames. It’s also just the right thing to do ethically.
 

These are young men(or women) I don’t have any reason to doubt the level headedness of Kellen Thames and his family, but look at the cautionary tales out there of athletes cast off because they couldn’t do the thing anymore. Boobie Miles for example. Shredded his knee, was cast off by Permian and landed on the slippery slope to prison. 

Being on scholarship doesn't mean you have to be on athletic scholarship.  The school can give Thames some kind of other scholarship.  It is a different world than what Majerus coached in.  You can't have a guy on your roster going into the year you have no confidence at all in their ability to physically step on the court.  Roster spots at a school like SLU are too important now because the very nature of the portal means some of the guys you get just aren't going to work out and some others are likely to check out come December if they don't think things are going their way.  Now you add in injuries and suddenly that 15 man limit seems much smaller.

[Pistol]

3 minutes ago, brianstl said:

Being on scholarship doesn't mean you have to be on athletic scholarship.  The school can give Thames some kind of other scholarship.  It is a different world than what Majerus coached in.  You can't have a guy on your roster going into the year you have no confidence at all in their ability to physically step on the court.  Roster spots at a school like SLU are too important now because the very nature of the portal means some of the guys you get just aren't going to work out and some others are likely to check out come December if they don't think things are going their way.  Now you add in injuries and suddenly that 15 man limit seems much smaller.

Are there examples of athletes being given academic scholarships in lieu of athletic scholarships to free up roster spots? Other than, say, a coach's kid being classified as a walk-on? What's the advantage of rostering more than 15 scholarship players? Coaches can't even keep 13 guys happy, let alone more than 15.

If you don't want to give a player a scholarship, you have to let him go altogether.

That's not the case with Thames, though. They want him to stay.

[dlarry]

2 hours ago, Old guy said:

 

2. Prayer did not stop the spread of the black plague in the Middle Ages when 40% of the population in Europe died from it. 

 

 

We don’t know that that was over a 1000 years ago. 
Maybe if the 40% who died would have been praying more they would have survived. 

[Crewsorlose]

17 hours ago, WVBilliken said:

Maybe Dotzer saw that McCottry is locked in at the 2 guard and CHOOSE to leave.  Maybe he wants to move to a program closer to home.  Maybe he doesn't like the area or coach or school.  Maybe, maybe, maybe ..... opinions.

Your comment rubs me as just another unfounded opinion ..... "And it reflects negatively on Schertz that Dotzler is leaving. Dotzler is precisely the kind of talent that should come here and develop".  I am reluctant to be critical of Schertz when a player leaves the program when we as posters know very little about inner workings of these decisions.  But of course we are all, by this discussion board, able to post our mostly unfounded opinions with no factual basis behind them. 

How would McCottry, glued to the bench in November, be "locked in" to the 2 guard spot over a player who was in the rotation before injured? Why would Dotzler be afraid of the competition to play the 1 or 2 guard when that competition is McCottry and a bunch of freshman. 

Maybe Dotzler, who was labeled as this totally awesome guy who was already married and a devout Christian decides to bail for reasons we'll never know. But the most probably reason is that he didn't like the coach and/or the school. 

If Schertz is some master of the portal who's going to recruit awesome players, that's great, but if he is what he says he is, someone interested in developing guys and trying to develop cohesion, it can't but reflect badly on him because Dotzler is one of those guys. 

[HoosierPal]

I could be wrong on this, but once the House settlement arrives, scholarship limits are replaced by roster size limits.  Basketball will be able to roster 15.  Any walk-on's (without scholarships) would be included in the 15.

With or without an athletic scholarship or an academic scholarship, the above Thames scenario only plays out if he is on the 15 man roster.

And yes, Schertz WON'T PLAY 15 with any meaningful minutes.  He has stated more than once that he likes a tight rotation.  So players, what 9 - 15, will have nice seats on the bench. 

[gobillsgo]

4 minutes ago, dlarry said:

We don’t know that that was over a 1000 years ago. 
Maybe if the 40% who died would have been praying more they would have survived. 

Blue font?

[White Pelican]

Yeah, I don't get this big worry that Thames is somehow gonna drag the team down by being on the roster. Nobody can find a way to play 13 players now. What's 2 more gonna do except guarantee that a bunch will go the free agent route after the season?

This whole Thames thing is nonsense. Some of the Old guys on here need to find an off-season hobby.

I've only been on here about 15 years. Is this the first time the Black Plague has been discussed or does it come up periodically?

 

[gobillsgo]

2 minutes ago, White Pelican said:

Yeah, I don't get this big worry that Thames is somehow gonna drag the team down by being on the roster. Nobody can find a way to play 13 players now. What's 2 more gonna do except guarantee that a bunch will go the free agent route after the season?

This whole Thames thing is nonsense. Some of the Old guys on here need to find an off-season hobby.

I've only been on here about 15 years. Is this the first time the Black Plague has been discussed or does it come up periodically?

 

We used all 13 scholarships at the start of this season, how’d our depth look?  We obviously will not play 15 guys, but all 15 should have the potential to physically play.