Departing Billiken Players via the Portal - 2025

[brianstl]

1 minute ago, Pistol said:

Are there examples of athletes being given academic scholarships in lieu of athletic scholarships to free up roster spots? Other than, say, a coach's kid being classified as a walk-on? What's the advantage of rostering more than 15 scholarship players? Coaches can't even keep 13 guys happy, let alone more than 15.

If you don't want to give a player a scholarship, you have to let him go altogether.

That's not the case with Thames, though. They want him to stay.

If he doesn't know if he doesn't know if he can play basketball, I wouldn't even have him classified as a walk-on.  Just give the kid some kind of scholarship and tell him you are going to help him in every way possible as he moves on with the next phase of his life.

If he is medically cleared right now or has a very clear time line on when that will happen then I want him to stay.

For the example of a kid on academic scholarship instead of an athletic scholarship, Paul Eckerle was on a Presidential Scholarship.  If I remember correctly our own @billiken_roy interviewed him for it.  That said, I think @HoosierPal is correct on the new roster rules.

 

[Lord Elrond]

1 minute ago, gobillsgo said:

We used all 13 scholarships at the start of this season, how’d our depth look?  We obviously will not play 15 guys, but all 15 should have the potential to physically play. 

Minor injuries/illnesses will guarantee that all 15 will not be available for every game anyway. I don’t think having Thames around impacts the bench the way Schertz plays only a limited number each game. And, what if his condition improves/goes away? If no one knows what it is, no one knows if it will clear up. In other words, potential upside.

[gobillsgo]

12 minutes ago, Lord Elrond said:

Minor injuries/illnesses will guarantee that all 15 will not be available for every game anyway. I don’t think having Thames around impacts the bench the way Schertz plays only a limited number each game. And, what if his condition improves/goes away? If no one knows what it is, no one knows if it will clear up. In other words, potential upside.

This is the argument people should be making. I would agree Kellen’s potential is great enough that it’s worth taking a flier that he miraculously gets healthy.  I’m just against the idea of wasting a scholarship on an injured player because it’s the “ethical” thing to do. Ethics unfortunately don’t exist in college basketball anymore, and if you allow yourself to make decisions solely based on that, you’re putting your program at a disadvantage. 

[billikenfan05]

44 minutes ago, gobillsgo said:

This is the argument people should be making. I would agree Kellen’s potential is great enough that it’s worth taking a flier that he miraculously gets healthy.  I’m just against the idea of wasting a scholarship on an injured player because it’s the “ethical” thing to do. Ethics unfortunately don’t exist in college basketball anymore, and if you allow yourself to make decisions solely based on that, you’re putting your program at a disadvantage. 

The way OG put it was essentially inferring they should cast off or as he said it “not retain” was to basically cut him loose because he can’t play basketball anymore. I took issue with cutting any player loose due to career ending injury. 
 

He, being the hypocrite that he is, said “he cannot play basketball anymore, despite later saying that nobody knows Thames condition. 
 

I found his post, as I do all of his pseudo medical expertise posts to be unethical and gross. Especially as he claims to be a medical professional. 

[Old guy]

I am glad to see that my posts have created a lot of discussion about issues like ethics and compassion as they impact the current world of college basketball. I have been called a troll, so be it, but the kind of discussion my posts sparked is healthy. 

I see no problems with transferring Thames to an academic scholarship, and I see no problem with having him help train the new players ass they come in. I object strongly to the strong belief on miracles exhibited by many board members. But refusing to see reality, raw as it may be, is not my problem, it is their problem which in no way diminishes their right to express their personal opinions, as I have also done over several posts.

All the best to everybody, a good discussion, insults and all, is always stimulating.

[kmbilliken]

1 hour ago, White Pelican said:

Yeah, I don't get this big worry that Thames is somehow gonna drag the team down by being on the roster. Nobody can find a way to play 13 players now. What's 2 more gonna do except guarantee that a bunch will go the free agent route after the season?

This whole Thames thing is nonsense. Some of the Old guys on here need to find an off-season hobby.

I've only been on here about 15 years. Is this the first time the Black Plague has been discussed or does it come up periodically?

 

It comes up every thousand years or so.

 

[willie]

Question for 3* I think. Just saw that 37.5% of the starters in the sweet 16 came from lower programs. I believe in the past you told us that the portal would work both ways. That high major recruits who didn't make it at the higher level would move down to the mids and would thrive. You may  have some names of this happening but it seems to me it's been players like Casey. I don't think it's been a two way street. 

[slu72]

1 hour ago, White Pelican said:

Yeah, I don't get this big worry that Thames is somehow gonna drag the team down by being on the roster. Nobody can find a way to play 13 players now. What's 2 more gonna do except guarantee that a bunch will go the free agent route after the season?

This whole Thames thing is nonsense. Some of the Old guys on here need to find an off-season hobby.

I've only been on here about 15 years. Is this the first time the Black Plague has been discussed or does it come up periodically?

 

I’m beginning to think Kellen somehow got infected by Old Guy’s Mexican Ice Cubes. 

[Dr Bird]

I trust CJS in his roster decisions.  And by all accounts he's a stand-up guy.  If special considerations are merited, he will make it happen.

[jonny karate]

Need more ancient disease discussion such as black plague, rickets, polio, whooping cough, small pox, leprosy and Typhoid. Leprosy what ever happened to that!

[3star_recruit]

53 minutes ago, willie said:

Question for 3* I think. Just saw that 37.5% of the starters in the sweet 16 came from lower programs. I believe in the past you told us that the portal would work both ways. That high major recruits who didn't make it at the higher level would move down to the mids and would thrive. You may  have some names of this happening but it seems to me it's been players like Casey. I don't think it's been a two way street. 

A third of the players on A10 all-conference teams started at high-major programs.  About 15% were lateral moves from mid-majors.  Swope and Cheeks started out at low-majors.  The rest were homegrown.

All-Conference First Team
Reed Bailey, Davidson
Jalen Haynes, George Mason
Xzayvier Brown, Saint Joseph's
Rasheer Fleming, Saint Joseph's
Gibson Jimerson, Saint Louis
Max Shulga, VCU
 
All-Conference Second Team
Nate Santos, Dayton
Rafael Castro, George Washington
Jayden Dawson, Loyola Chicago
Erik Reynolds II, Saint Joseph’s         
Robbie Avila, Saint Louis
Joe Bamisile, VCU
 
All-Conference Third Team
Enoch Cheeks, Dayton                      
Darius Maddox, George Mason
Rahsool Diggins, Massachusetts      
Sebastian Thomas, Rhode Island
Melvin Council Jr., St. Bonaventure
Isaiah Swope, Saint Louis    

[almaman]

2 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

It is bad form to cast off a local basketball player because he’s suffering from a medical anomaly. It is in SLU’s best interest to be compassionate and accommodating to Kellen Thames. It’s also just the right thing to do ethically. And that doesn’t necessarily mean he has to be on athletic scholarship, I’m sure there are many avenues with which to help Thames if he can no longer play basketball at a certain level. SLU should be doing those things. 
 

These are young men(or women) going through major life changes.  I don’t have any reason to doubt the level headedness of Kellen Thames and his family, but look at the cautionary tales out there of athletes cast off because they couldn’t do the thing anymore. Boobie Miles for example. Shredded his knee, was cast off by Permian and landed on the slippery slope to prison. 
 

I for one truly think Thames will be back at near, if not full capacity next season. But as others have speculated, you don’t often find players with his talents willing to play 10-15 minutes a game. 

really take his 15 minutes, Coach all about not playing 50-60% of his allotment anyway

[Lord Elrond]

13 minutes ago, jonny karate said:

Need more ancient disease discussion such as black plague, rickets, polio, whooping cough, small pox, leprosy and Typhoid. Leprosy what ever happened to that!

Only if we have someone standing by to put leeches on us in case it gets out of hand…

[White Pelican]

6 minutes ago, Lord Elrond said:

Only if we have someone standing by to put leeches on us in case it gets out of hand…

Theodoric of York (aka Steve Martin on SNL eons ago)

[Old guy]

34 minutes ago, jonny karate said:

Need more ancient disease discussion such as black plague, rickets, polio, whooping cough, small pox, leprosy and Typhoid. Leprosy what ever happened to that!

Leprosy is still alive and well. It has never been a very infectious disease and direct contact is required for infection. There remain active leprosariums here and there in the world, where people with advanced leprosy are interned until  they die. This is a disease with a very slow progression, it takes years upon years to kill those who have it. And yes, there are effective medications to treat leprosy. The book and movie "Mortorcycle Diaries" which describe an early part of the life of Che Guevara, has a fair amount of material about his visit to an active leprosarium, it is worth it of your time to read the book or see the movie.

[ACE]

1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said:

A third of the players on A10 all-conference teams started at high-major programs.  About 15% were lateral moves from mid-majors.  Swope and Cheeks started out at low-majors.  The rest were homegrown.

All-Conference First Team
Reed Bailey, Davidson
Jalen Haynes, George Mason
Xzayvier Brown, Saint Joseph's
Rasheer Fleming, Saint Joseph's
Gibson Jimerson, Saint Louis
Max Shulga, VCU
 
All-Conference Second Team
Nate Santos, Dayton
Rafael Castro, George Washington
Jayden Dawson, Loyola Chicago
Erik Reynolds II, Saint Joseph’s         
Robbie Avila, Saint Louis
Joe Bamisile, VCU
 
All-Conference Third Team
Enoch Cheeks, Dayton                      
Darius Maddox, George Mason
Rahsool Diggins, Massachusetts      
Sebastian Thomas, Rhode Island
Melvin Council Jr., St. Bonaventure
Isaiah Swope, Saint Louis    

And yet only one of those players even played in a Tournament game and no "mid-majors" even made the Sweet 16. Hard to see how the portal and free agency have not adversely affected mid majors, but I'm all ears.

[3star_recruit]

14 minutes ago, ACE said:

And yet only one of those players even played in a Tournament game and no "mid-majors" even made the Sweet 16. Hard to see how the portal and free agency have not adversely affected mid majors, but I'm all ears.

I've already demonstrated that the portal is a two-way street.  I'd argue that the gradual disappearance of mid-majors from the NCAA tournament has more to do with the increasing tendency of high-majors refusal to play mid-majors.  If they only have 1 or 2 Quad 1 opportunities before conference play, there's not a lot mid-majors can do.

[billikenfan05]

7 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

I've already demonstrated that the portal is a two-way street.  I'd argue that the gradual disappearance of mid-majors from the NCAA tournament has more to do with the increasing tendency of high-majors refusal to play mid-majors.  If they only have 1 or 2 Quad 1 opportunities before conference play, there's not a lot mid-majors can do.

I would argue that the metrics by which teams are rated/ranked are actually to blame. It’s no coincidence in my opinion that the mid majors have dwindled since the Quad System was introduced 

[3star_recruit]

3 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

I would argue that the metrics by which teams are rated/ranked are actually to blame. It’s no coincidence in my opinion that the mid majors have dwindled since the Quad System was introduced 

That too.

[WVBilliken]

1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said:

I've already demonstrated that the portal is a two-way street.  I'd argue that the gradual disappearance of mid-majors from the NCAA tournament has more to do with the increasing tendency of high-majors refusal to play mid-majors.  If they only have 1 or 2 Quad 1 opportunities before conference play, there's not a lot mid-majors can do.

But the power schools get mid-major stars who have proven their worth in the college game.  The mid-majors get wannabes .... kids who might have a HS pedigree but were not able to prove it at the power conference level and can't get the minutes to show their worth/potential.  So why do you think Schertz is looking at D2 stars?  I get it.

[dlarry]

5 hours ago, gobillsgo said:

Blue font?

50/50

 

 

[3star_recruit]

1 minute ago, WVBilliken said:

But the power schools get mid-major stars who have proven their worth in the college game.  The mid-majors get wannabes .... kids who might have a HS pedigree but were not able to prove it at the power conference level and can't get the minutes to show their worth/potential.  So why do you think Schertz is looking at D2 stars?  I get it.

We're on day 2  of the portal.  We can revisit this conversation in a month when more of the players we're recruiting become public knowledge.

[willie]

10 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

We're on day 2  of the portal.  We can revisit this conversation in a month when more of the players we're recruiting become public knowledge.

Agreed look at it in a month but so far I haven’t seen too many power 5 names on here. 

[ACE]

1 hour ago, 3star_recruit said:

I've already demonstrated that the portal is a two-way street.  I'd argue that the gradual disappearance of mid-majors from the NCAA tournament has more to do with the increasing tendency of high-majors refusal to play mid-majors.  If they only have 1 or 2 Quad 1 opportunities before conference play, there's not a lot mid-majors can do.

No one is disputing that transferring is a two-way street, but it's highly debatable whether the talent coming in equals the talent that leaves for P6.

It's not just NIL, free agency has played a huge role. In fact, several times, Schertz has said that was the tipping point on why it was the time to leave ISU. He knew he wouldn't be able to keep that time together and walk it back, because it was so easy for those players to leave without the obstacle of sitting out a year.

I 100% agree with you about the lack of incentive for P6 teams to play mid majors. Also, I was beating the drum about the negative impact of changing from the rpi to the NET. I have argued that there are multiple factors. I've been a bit of a chicken little, but a number of people on the board said that everything would be just fine for mid majors and that the changes would have a minimal impact. I really wish they were right, so I wouldn't have such a doom and gloom outlook about the future of mid majors.

[TheA_Bomb]

2 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

I've already demonstrated that the portal is a two-way street.  I'd argue that the gradual disappearance of mid-majors from the NCAA tournament has more to do with the increasing tendency of high-majors refusal to play mid-majors.  If they only have 1 or 2 Quad 1 opportunities before conference play, there's not a lot mid-majors can do.

Also this is solely one conference and one seasons worth of data (# of major transfers to lower levels).

Those trying to conflate it with the current state of the tournament that too is only one tournament. 

It may yet become a trend that is related but I think drawing conclusions right now is premature.