Travis Ford is not a good coach

[Brighton]

7 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

We can be better without setting goals that only 5% of mid-majors have met.

In other words, maintaining the status quo.

[HoosierPal]

29 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

what and take another 40 years?   b.s.   

1. start scheduling every year with the best out of conference schedule we can.   

2.  start recruiting a roster that matches ford's style.   this nonsense where he brings in supreme athletes and then plans half court needs to stop. [personally i'd rather watch the up and down havoc style play, but let's be honest.   he is never going to do that.   he is never going to play a full roster rotation.)   if he wants to be davidson, then recruit a davidson roster of deadly shooters and high iq players and tough inside players that rebound consistently and guard the basket like crazy.    i honestly think he might be in process of doing that with the 3 recruits he just got commits for.   they seem to be more akin to that line of thinking than the racehorses like strickland and hargrove and traore are.   

3. find yourself a few staff replacements that can help with game planning and development.   between tate, forte and himself, i think they got the recruiting covered. now make the recruits we bring in all they can be asap.   hands on.   dont give them a speech every spring and expect them to do it themselves.   there arent a lot of javon besses out there that will do that.  

we do the above with ford's recruiting, we would be a annual 40 NET team in less than 3 years imo.

Agree in principle, but

#1 is extremely difficult, particularly with P5's going to 20 game schedules.  Our OOC schedule next season looks pretty good - Memphis, Boise State, NC State, Auburn, SIUC, the tourney with Providence and Miami, etc.  That is the kind of OOC that we need.  No more Harris Stowe's and no more Central Arkansas or Eastern Illinois.  Yeah, we need a warmup games, but let's get them against teams with historical NET's in the mid 200's or better.

#2.  Yep.  Getting local kids is fun, but let's get players from wherever that will fit, and that will win big games.  Perhaps our best team(s) this century was low on locals, but we had New Zealand, Australia, Minneapolis, Chicago and Milwaukee kids in Blue.  That was kind of fun.

#3.  I'm not sure who does what on the staff.  My sense is just about everyone is involved with recruiting.  Player development seems to be positive, or at least as much as you can expect at the college level.  Ford has different coaches prepare scouting reports on upcoming teams.  How much does he ask for input on game planning?  Don't know but it certainly could be improved.  Someone missed 'guard the three point line' in our last two games.

[willie]

9 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

We can be better without setting goals that only 5% of mid-majors have met.

If you want to be better than a mid major [Big East] those goals better be pretty damn high. 

[billiken_roy]

hoosier pal i would be thrilled if we duplicate our out of conference schedule from this just completed season every year.   that was a very good schedule that matches what i am thinking.    and had we not blew those leads in those out of conference losses we would have been sitting on that 40 NET at season end imo.  

[johnbj14]

4 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

hoosier pal i would be thrilled if we duplicate our out of conference schedule from this just completed season every year.   that was a very good schedule that matches what i am thinking.    and had we not blew those leads in those out of conference losses we would have been sitting on that 40 NET at season end imo.  

This OOC but swap out Harris Stowe and Central Arkansas for SIU and someone like Indiana State and it is perfect. Keeping the cupcake games closer to 220 in NET instead of 300s or non-D1 at all is ideal. Heck, depending on how year one goes, throw Lindenwood on there going forward. 

[ARon]

5 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

hoosier pal i would be thrilled if we duplicate our out of conference schedule from this just completed season every year.   that was a very good schedule that matches what i am thinking.    and had we not blew those leads in those out of conference losses we would have been sitting on that 40 NET at season end imo.  

Yes. Auburn, Belmont, UAB, Drake, and Boise State may not be household brands in college BB but it was a strong OCC schedule. Schedule like that each year and we’ll be an easy at large team….if we actually win the games.

Next years schedule already looks pretty good too.

[TheA_Bomb]

The disappointment being expressed by the majority here isn't over this single season.   It is a cumulative body of work that isn't in line with the overall capability and investment in the program.  Once upon a time we practiced in West Pine Gym, paid lower level salaries, didn't take chartered flights and squared off vs Louisville and Cincinnati.  Not winning during that time was understandable given the level of support.  Now that's all changed.   You can't give high level support, relative to your conference mates, be paid top in the league and not get the results.   In a lesser conference in a down year.

68 teams make the NCAA tournament of 350 total programs.  That's 19% every year. Of those 68 teams 34 of them win at least 1 game. 

The return on investment is not there, maybe next year.....if not next year it's time to move on.  I have no confidence that Ford will do it.  What are the indicators for future success?

[3star_recruit]

19 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

The disappointment being expressed by the majority here isn't over this single season.   It is a cumulative body of work that isn't in line with the overall capability and investment in the program.  Once upon a time we practiced in West Pine Gym, paid lower level salaries, didn't take chartered flights and squared off vs Louisville and Cincinnati.  Not winning during that time was understandable given the level of support.  Now that's all changed.   You can't give high level support, relative to your conference mates, be paid top in the league and not get the results.   In a lesser conference in a down year.

68 teams make the NCAA tournament of 350 total programs.  That's 19% every year. Of those 68 teams 34 of them win at least 1 game. 

The return on investment is not there, maybe next year.....if not next year it's time to move on.  I have no confidence that Ford will do it.  What are the indicators for future success?

You have to give your investment time to pay off. We just made the NCAA tournament 3 years ago.  Two Billiken Hall of Famers just graduated.  Our best player was injured before the season and we still made the NIT, which is unheard of in our history. 

You all just saw Richmond make their first NCAA tournament in 11 years.  We just made the NCAA tournament 3 years ago.  We've got Yuri, Jimerson, Nesbitt and Fred another 2 years.  We've positioned ourselves well to grab another piece in the portal or in Europe.

It's like some MBMers are so terrified of getting their hearts broken they're unwilling to wait 2 years for the story to play out.  It's sports, folks.  There are no guarantees.

[HoosierPal]

I hope the A10 head-shed gives us Loyola and Dayton as two permanent double game partners.  With 15 teams next season, there will be four teams with two games for each member.  Those two need to be on our schedule, as well as two among VCU, Davidson, Richmond, St. B, or perhaps URI (or Fordham?).  You never know what a team will look like next season at this point in the calendar.  But no more two game slates with (this season's) LaSalle's or UMass's of the conference.

[Billikenbooster]

Loyola and Dayton should be a given 2 game series each year

[VeniceMenace]

3 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

You have to give your investment time to pay off. We just made the NCAA tournament 3 years ago.  Two Billiken Hall of Famers just graduated.  Our best player was injured before the season and we still made the NIT, which is unheard of in our history. 

You all just saw Richmond make their first NCAA tournament in 11 years.  We just made the NCAA tournament 3 years ago.  We've got Yuri, Jimerson, Nesbitt and Fred another 2 years.  We've positioned ourselves well to grab another piece in the portal or in Europe.

It's like some MBMers are so terrified of getting their hearts broken they're unwilling to wait 2 years for the story to play out.  It's sports, folks.  There are no guarantees.

Agree. 

SLU basketball continues on an upward trajectory since the dumpster fire Ford inherited...it's only getting better with another first-class athletic facility on the way. 

Ford himself would surely acknowledge he's had time to establish depth over the years and now must consistently make the NCAA tourney...if that doesn't happen soon, SLU has the clout now to hire a coach will make it happen.

The future is bright!

[RiseOfTheBillikens]

29 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

 It's sports, folks.  There are no guarantees.

Bingo

[dennis_w]

1 hour ago, TheA_Bomb said:

The disappointment being expressed by the majority here isn't over this single season.   It is a cumulative body of work that isn't in line with the overall capability and investment in the program.  Once upon a time we practiced in West Pine Gym, paid lower level salaries, didn't take chartered flights and squared off vs Louisville and Cincinnati.  Not winning during that time was understandable given the level of support.  Now that's all changed.   You can't give high level support, relative to your conference mates, be paid top in the league and not get the results.   In a lesser conference in a down year.

68 teams make the NCAA tournament of 350 total programs.  That's 19% every year. Of those 68 teams 34 of them win at least 1 game. 

The return on investment is not there, maybe next year.....if not next year it's time to move on.  I have no confidence that Ford will do it.  What are the indicators for future success?

nearly half of the bids go to the top six conferences so the math doesnt work quite as well for the rest of the mids and low major

[brianstl]

nm

[willie]

All of this Ford talk is about prospective. Just heard Frank C's show with Howard Richards and some other guy. They were making the case that Ford would be a great pick for Missouri. 

[brianstl]

3 hours ago, ACE said:

We lost two great players to graduation following last year - this year's team was not projected to win the league entering this season. SLU then loses its best returning player and conference player of the year candidate before the season starts - after that happened, I'm just curious what expectations people had for the team?

There were certainly some frustrating moments this season, but was the perception of this season being a disappointment a product of Ford's failures or a case of some unrealistic fan expectations?

How many NCAA tournaments did we make with two Billiken Hall of Famers playing together for four years?

Why do we automatically believe we will make the tournament next year with Perkins?

We missed the NCAA tournament with Perkins and two Billiken Hall of Famers last season.  When the post-season was cancelled in 19-20 we were on the outside looking in at the tournament.  We would have had to win the conference tournament to get in with Perkins and two Billiken Hall of Famers that season.  We very well could have with the way we were playing, but I just think we should have higher expectations than having to count on winning the conference tournament to get a NCAA bid.

[Schasz]

2 minutes ago, brianstl said:

How many NCAA tournaments did we make with two Billiken Hall of Famers playing together for four years?

Why do we automatically believe we will make the tournament next year with Perkins?

We missed the NCAA tournament with Perkins and two Billiken Hall of Famers last season.  When the post-season was cancelled in 19-20 we were on the outside looking in at the tournament.  We would have had to win the conference tournament to get in with Perkins and two Billiken Hall of Famers that season.  We very well could have with the way we were playing, but I just think we should have higher expectations than having to count on winning the conference tournament to get a NCAA bid.

I wish Chris May would inform mens Basketball Billiken Fans when he will hold Travis Ford to the same standard he used in the tweet about the Women's HC he just fired? Interested fans would like to know!

[TheA_Bomb]

35 minutes ago, Schasz said:

I wish Chris May would inform mens Basketball Billiken Fans when he will hold Travis Ford to the same standard he used in the tweet about the Women's HC he just fired? Interested fans would like to know!

You bad post me then post this?

 

I'm not trolling anyone.   Trying to derive what are reasonable expectations for SLU men's basketball.   The excuses for not making the tournament and winning a game are numerous and legitimate.   But at some point you make your own luck you find a way to overcome adversity.   If you can't then you won't succeed.   I think 24 years of HC record shows us this year is what Travis Ford is, he is a good recruiter who produces ok results in the regular season and doesn't win in post season.  That's not what I want.  I recognize we have him at least another season.   I wish we'd go on a NCAA run but I wouldn't put any money on it.  

[MichaelC]

2 hours ago, ARon said:

Yes. Auburn, Belmont, UAB, Drake, and Boise State may not be household brands in college BB but it was a strong OCC schedule. Schedule like that each year and we’ll be an easy at large team….if we actually win the games.

Next years schedule already looks pretty good too.

Agee, the OOC schedule was fine but you've got to cash in by beating UAB and Belmont at home and then getting either Memphis or Auburn, I think that gets you into the top 35ish before conference play.

[cheeseman]

2 hours ago, 3star_recruit said:

You have to give your investment time to pay off. We just made the NCAA tournament 3 years ago.  Two Billiken Hall of Famers just graduated.  Our best player was injured before the season and we still made the NIT, which is unheard of in our history. 

You all just saw Richmond make their first NCAA tournament in 11 years.  We just made the NCAA tournament 3 years ago.  We've got Yuri, Jimerson, Nesbitt and Fred another 2 years.  We've positioned ourselves well to grab another piece in the portal or in Europe.

It's like some MBMers are so terrified of getting their hearts broken they're unwilling to wait 2 years for the story to play out.  It's sports, folks.  There are no guarantees.

Ford has not had much success going the European route. I will be leery of this supposed European stud he suppose to have on the hook. At this point I will withhold judgment until I see him

[HoosierPal]

9 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Ford has not had much success going the European route. I will be leery of this supposed European stud he suppose to have on the hook. At this point I will withhold judgment until I see him

The information was from Frank C and only said we were interested in a player from Europe. Coach G was over there looking at him. I had not heard the words ‘stud’ or ‘hook’ until you just provided them. 
 

[Bonner89]

Yeah, it's sports folks.

Let things remain as they are all the while we watch programs from small markets (Creighton, Wichita St, Xavier, etc) pass us by because they had the nerve to take basketball seriously.

 

 

[cheeseman]

3 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

The information was from Frank C and only said we were interested in a player from Europe. Coach G was over there looking at him. I had not heard the words ‘stud’ or ‘hook’ until you just provided them. 
 

Well if he is not a stud why get him. We can decent players without going to Europe. Perhaps I assumed we were close to getting him but if Frank just said we have interest then I am not sure what his point was- how is that a big disclosure 

[HoosierPal]

7 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Well if he is not a stud why get him. We can decent players without going to Europe. Perhaps I assumed we were close to getting him but if Frank just said we have interest then I am not sure what his point was- how is that a big disclosure 

Frank has what,2 hours to fill each day. He was talking SLU hoops with Rammer. You would prefer he didn’t discuss rumors on recruiting? 

[VeniceMenace]

1 hour ago, brianstl said:

Why do we automatically believe we will make the tournament next year with Perkins?

We missed the NCAA tournament with Perkins and two Billiken Hall of Famers last season.  When the post-season was cancelled in 19-20 we were on the outside looking in at the tournament.  

There was this thing called COVID, which played a small part in outcomes the past two seasons.