GDT: Maryville

[WVBilliken]

1 hour ago, cgeldmacher said:

In the passenger seat on the ride home from the game.  Hargrove in one game showed us all the reasons to be super excited about him and all the reasons why he’s not normally playing.  He scored 27 and gave up 35.  I love the guy, but don’t expect this effort to turn into a lot of playing time.

Agree, exciting player but his defense needs to improve before he gets anything but mop up minutes.

[dlarry]

1 hour ago, slu72 said:

Parker long should transfer. 

I said something about this during the game.

If you are the coach do you sit him down?

Put him in positions to fail?

Hes going to play himself right out of Maryville.

Bottle him up until D2 conference season then let him lose. Then you can tell him “sure you are doing OK but it’s d2 competition.”

[3star_recruit]

13 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

Couldn’t watch until the last couple of minutes. Did Weaver play at all?

Tough night at the office. 0-4 FG, 1 rebound, 0 assists in 16 min.

[Old guy]

Back from the game, the score for this game against a D2 team was nothing to be proud about. They came playing hard and scored a higher percentage of  their throws than we did. We beat them by only 13 pts, not the 30 people were talking about in this board. The weather was cold, the attendance was low (I'd say about 30%), and it looked to me that the cheers from the Maryville fans were at times louder than ours. As far as I was concerned a win is a win and none of these issues mattered.

I plainly and positively LOVED being there today to witness TJ Hargrove's inaugural game of the season. I know he has played a few minutes here and there before Ford yanked him out. This time he played 28 minutes and managed to score 27 pts, 7 rebounds, 2 blocks and 1 steal. The numbers, as good as they are make no justice to what he did in that court tonight. First of all, the team played a lot better with him in than with him out. Second he provided some kind of a spark or dynamism to the whole team and repeatedly did things that looked like he was not going to be able to do. I believe he shocked the Maryville guys, in fact there was a double technical during this game involving Hargrove and a big from Maryville. They may have exchanged a few blows, I am not sure how the whole thing worked out. Hargrove, to put it simply,  wanted the ball and wanted to score, he did his defensive duties well enough that Ford did not yank him out. However, what I saw him do, at least in my opinion, was to fire up the team and get them to play at the fast level he was playing. By the way, with French absent, and Bell not fully functional yet, Hargrove played the same role as French in this game and did very well. I would say that after this game, Hargrove will play a consistent number of minutes in future games and that one of this functions may well be to provide some rest for Frech. I think this kid is really good and that the team will play better when he is in.

He was not the only one, Goodwin and Perkins did extremely well also, but Hargrove was on fire.

I knew this game was not going to be when the Bills came out to the court and French, Jamison, and Thatch were not in uniform, they were dressed in black clothing. Hankton played briefly, 8 min, achieved nothing, and had to be taken out because whenever Hankton was in Maryville closed the scoring gap. Bell played 12  min, tried hard and probably did improve a bit but it looks like getting him on par with the other players will possibly be a long process. Weaver played  16 min, got one rebound and achieved nothing else. He is quick, can defend, carry the ball, and can spell Yuri when needed, but  I really do not think the NBA is in his future.

In all, despite the low attendance to this game, the bad weather, and the fact that French, Jimerson, and Thatch did not play in this game, just the fact that Hargrove was in provided a wonderful spectacle to those in attendance. Go TJ! hope to see you play against KState.                                                                                                       

 

[Bay Area Billiken]

When was the last time (if ever) that a Billiken had 6 Dunks?

[almaman]

39 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Yuri alley oops and drive/dish scenarios to Hargrove would work against anybody.  Finishers, whether outside or inside, benefit from pinpoint passing.

They don't have to be at the rim either. He gave him one that was almost a shovel pass the dropped shoulder high softly in his hands. 3 1/2 years of that could be in our future.

[Clocktoweraccords2004]

37 minutes ago, brianstl said:

Why do people always read too much into what a player does in these type of games? Maryville is a below average D2 team. St. Louis College of Phamacy’s RJ Wright put up 26 against Maryville. You probably think Wright should get Jacobs scholarship.

Then what’s Goodwin and Jacobs excuse for not putting 28 points +? 
face it. The team leader was TJ and you’re so much in tunnel vision about defense you can’t see we need him 

[Compton]

 

[slufanskip]

I watched the game after reading this thread. The idea that Hargrove was outscored by the man he was guarding is ridiculous. This is how opinions get formed, one guys says something, a few others pile on and it becomes fact. His defense wasn't great but it wasn't horrible either. He probably outscored the player/players he was defending 2-1. He also had a couple of plays where he played decent D and his man scored anyway. Heck you don't even have to watch the game to see that the bad D talk is BS, just look at a box score. He wasn't guarding Parker Long except a couple of times where he got switched off. Their next highest scorer had 12. Also he only played 28 minutes so if you divide their points by 40 minutes you get 1.75 per minute, so about 51 points were scored when he was on the floor. Was TH Jr responsible for guarding 2 guys at a time?

I'm not advocating he start or anything near that, but he's earned some playing time and his D was much better than many on this board are claiming. 

[cgeldmacher]

I’ve already said that the idea that he gave up more than he scored was an exaggeration.   The point that I and others made is still true.  Hargrove showed us some great things and he also showed why he’s riding the bench a lot.

Other guys got scored on too, but there’s a difference between a D2 player firing up 3’s on our guards that are going in because they just can’t seem to miss and a D2 guy blowing by one Hargrove for an easy basket.  There was one time that he was literally standing on the wrong side of his man (not sure what the term is, but not basket side) when the guy caught the ball took one dribble and layed it in.

Add to that the fact that he almost started a fight with a D2 team when we’re already short on guys.  Goodwin had to restrain him for a good thirty seconds and a Ford had to come running over because Hargrove wouldn’t let it go.  He kept trying to push Goodwin away from him to get back at the guy.  If Goodwin tweaks any muscle in his body trying to hold Hargrove back in that situation, you’d be viewing things differently right now.

Again, I’m excited that he did well, but would like to see that sort of play against any D1 team before I get too excited or start questioning our coach about his playing time.

 

[cgeldmacher]

To be more clear, I can’t stress enough how much I like Hargrove, his enthusiasm for being a Billiken, his athleticism, and his potential.  I just think it’s a mistake to look at this performance and start taking away minute from other guys in important games like the K-State game coming up.  Hargrove will have his time to shine as a Billiken.  That time is just not now, and his offensive performance in a game against a D2 opponent shouldn’t make the coaching staff start changing game plans.

[billiken_roy]

5 hours ago, slufanskip said:

I watched the game after reading this thread. The idea that Hargrove was outscored by the man he was guarding is ridiculous. This is how opinions get formed, one guys says something, a few others pile on and it becomes fact. His defense wasn't great but it wasn't horrible either. He probably outscored the player/players he was defending 2-1. He also had a couple of plays where he played decent D and his man scored anyway. Heck you don't even have to watch the game to see that the bad D talk is BS, just look at a box score. He wasn't guarding Parker Long except a couple of times where he got switched off. Their next highest scorer had 12. Also he only played 28 minutes so if you divide their points by 40 minutes you get 1.75 per minute, so about 51 points were scored when he was on the floor. Was TH Jr responsible for guarding 2 guys at a time?

I'm not advocating he start or anything near that, but he's earned some playing time and his D was much better than many on this board are claiming. 

sorry skip but it was a bad defensive display.   he could have become the new poster boy for ole defense. 

that said on the other end he was something else.   what a show.   definitely was fun to watch and now ford has to figure this out.   dont see how he can go back to not letting hargrove on the floor.   ford has to figure out how to hide hargrove's defense. 

[3star_recruit]

The elephant in the room is that we were lackluster defensively in this game with or without Hargrove on the floor. Fellow D-2 team Ohio Dominican, who is 4-8,  beat Maryville by 24 two weeks ago. Bradley beat Maryville by over 30 points a week ago. 

Hargrove's offensive contribution was vital in this teams's post-Auburn malaise. Without it there's very real possibility we lose a game to a below average D-2 team. We could be talking today about the worst Billiken loss since the Ekker days instead of whether Hargrove deserves to be the 2nd forward off the bench.

[Bay Area Billiken]

All the Defense claims notwithstanding, this is still Basketball.  You have to score baskets, score the ball to win.  It is really that simple.

There are many cases over the years of offensive threats not being great on defense.

27 points, 6 dunks, 7 rebounds, and 2 blocked shots are no fluke, irrespective of the opponent.  Hargrove was 9-16 from the floor, and very importantly, especially for this team, 9-12 at the free throw line, 75%.  He played 28 minutes, more than the 25 minutes he was played in his previous 5 appearances combined.

Coach Ford said in his post-game interview on 101.1 ESPN that the Coach will be asked why he (Hargrove) hasn't been playing, but said he will be now.

[BIG BILL FAN]

6 hours ago, cgeldmacher said:

I’ve already said that the idea that he gave up more than he scored was an exaggeration.   The point that I and others made is still true.  Hargrove showed us some great things and he also showed why he’s riding the bench a lot.

Other guys got scored on too, but there’s a difference between a D2 player firing up 3’s on our guards that are going in because they just can’t seem to miss and a D2 guy blowing by one Hargrove for an easy basket.  There was one time that he was literally standing on the wrong side of his man (not sure what the term is, but not basket side) when the guy caught the ball took one dribble and layed it in.

Add to that the fact that he almost started a fight with a D2 team when we’re already short on guys.  Goodwin had to restrain him for a good thirty seconds and a Ford had to come running over because Hargrove wouldn’t let it go.  He kept trying to push Goodwin away from him to get back at the guy.  If Goodwin tweaks any muscle in his body trying to hold Hargrove back in that situation, you’d be viewing things differently right now.

Again, I’m excited that he did well, but would like to see that sort of play against any D1 team before I get too excited or start questioning our coach about his playing time.

 

There are plenty of guards at the D2 level who are more than capable of playing D1 ball, it's the front court people that are missing at the lower levels. The defense last night was atrocious, but primarily because there was no help defensively. Obviously the biggest reason was French's absence..

[slu72]

There were a lot of factors leading to last night's near disaster. Primarily it was our overall poor D showing and them making some unreal shots. As for the overall poor D, probably due to a hangover from the Auburn game. We held them to almost 20 pts below their season avg, but struggled to stop anything a losing D2 program threw at us. I don't know how else you can explain it. 

[Bills_06]

6 hours ago, cgeldmacher said:

To be more clear, I can’t stress enough how much I like Hargrove, his enthusiasm for being a Billiken, his athleticism, and his potential.  I just think it’s a mistake to look at this performance and start taking away minute from other guys in important games like the K-State game coming up.  Hargrove will have his time to shine as a Billiken.  That time is just not now, and his offensive performance in a game against a D2 opponent shouldn’t make the coaching staff start changing game plans.

And people can say it is coach speak but it wouldn't be one offensive performance against a D2 team that makes the coaches change their game plans.  Him getting more time seems to be part of their game plan:

“It was a great opportunity and he took advantage,” coach Travis Ford said. “I’ve seen this coming, and we talked about it as a staff that we’ve seen it coming the last 10 days. He’s made great strides. I had every intention to get him in (recently) against Auburn and apologized to him the next day. He will be playing going forward.”

Link

[Billfan7]

6 minutes ago, Bills_06 said:

And people can say it is coach speak but it wouldn't be one offensive performance against a D2 team that makes the coaches change their game plans.  Him getting more time seems to be part of their game plan:

“It was a great opportunity and he took advantage,” coach Travis Ford said. “I’ve seen this coming, and we talked about it as a staff that we’ve seen it coming the last 10 days. He’s made great strides. I had every intention to get him in (recently) against Auburn and apologized to him the next day. He will be playing going forward.”

Link

   Ford also said after the game that some guys on the team have world class talent but think they can turn it on when needed and not play hard all the time.  I am pretty sure he was speaking about Jacobs.  I wish Jacobs would show some emotion/hustle/aggression out there but he never does - he is sort of out there just doing enough to get by.  I was afraid Perkins was the same way but he has started to get into the mix and play with some aggression seeking loose balls and rebounds.

  Also, what an embarrassment of riches to have scorers like Jimerson, Perkins and possibly now Hargrove coming off the bench.  Each guy can be instant offense (assuming Hargroves game want a fluke) and give the team a jolt.  

[moytoy12]

18 minutes ago, Bills_06 said:

And people can say it is coach speak but it wouldn't be one offensive performance against a D2 team that makes the coaches change their game plans.  Him getting more time seems to be part of their game plan:

“It was a great opportunity and he took advantage,” coach Travis Ford said. “I’ve seen this coming, and we talked about it as a staff that we’ve seen it coming the last 10 days. He’s made great strides. I had every intention to get him in (recently) against Auburn and apologized to him the next day. He will be playing going forward.”

Link

Coach also says it’s too early to know if Jimerson or French will be ready for Saturday.  We’re definitely going to need French.  Pretty obvious he is a major piece to our defensive success. 

[jonny karate]

12 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

Coach also says it’s too early to know if Jimerson or French will be ready for Saturday.  We’re definitely going to need French.  Pretty obvious he is a major piece to our defensive success. 

Anyone have any insight on this?  Missing both or one could be bad.

[slu72]

I'm concerned about Jimerson suffering a foot injury. Those are tricky and can take awhile to heal. Here's hoping it's some kind of minor bruise,  but when it comes to the feet there doesn't seem to be any injury that's minor. 

[HoosierPal]

40 minutes ago, jonny karate said:

Anyone have any insight on this?  Missing both or one could be bad.

Bell was also 'dinged up'.  He was a game time decision on playing, which of course he did.

[Old guy]

Thinking about French and Jimerson during the game last night. I believe Jimerson may have been walking with a slight (very minor) limp, favoring one of his legs, not the other. I saw nothing abnormal in the way French was walking in and out of the court. However, neither of them were obviously impaired, neither was using crutches or assists, and Jimerson did not have a boot on.

[wgstl]

10 hours ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said:

Dude scores 27 and people still are debating if he should ever be on the court. Smh 

 

After last night I realized he’s further away from being ready than I thought.

he kept getting beat, by a D2 school player. And the way he scored(other than from FT) would have been much much harder against Any school we play normally. 

[CBFan]

I want Hargrove out on the court in the last couple of minutes when an opponent is trying to extend the game by fouling.

Hargrove’s free throws looked effortless and was accurate.  Our team has trouble closing out games with free throws Hargrove needs to be our closer.