GDT: Maryville

[billiken_roy]

a lot of maryville's success resulted from going straight to the basket and getting in the lane.   if mr french was in the game that doesnt happen   we saw what hasan french means to the team defensively last night.

[HoosierPal]

2 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

a lot of maryville's success resulted from going straight to the basket and getting in the lane.   if mr french was in the game that doesnt happen   we saw what hasan french means to the team defensively last night.

Dat true.  With French out, and Bell seeing only a few minutes, we had no one to challenge at the rim.  Perkins and Hargrove played a lot in the paint and maybe were unsure of rotations.

No coincidence that our worst defense game of the year was when French was on the bench.

[Old guy]

17 minutes ago, wgstl said:

After last night I realized he’s further away from being ready than I thought.

he kept getting beat, by a D2 school player. And the way he scored(other than from FT) would have been much much harder against Any school we play normally. 

Whether Hargrove is ready or not and whether he plays against K State or not, will depend entirely upon Ford and, apparently, upon French and Jimerson being ready to play next Saturday. Whether Hargrove is ready or not, if these two are not able to play Saturday, he will play probably for most of  the game. We already know that Hankton is definitely not going to replace French in actual play. However bad Hargrove's defense was last night, he played a hell of a lot better than Hankton did.

I am not saying we will not see Hankton or Bell playing Saturday. What I am saying categorically is that if French is still out next Saturday, Hargrove will be in. ready or not. And look at it from the good side, Hargrove can shoot FTs.

I also do not know if you have observed this during the games you have attended, but before each game team blue huddles and goes through a "bond" routine. There is always one guy in the center of the huddle dancing and apparently leading the process. This guy is Hargrove, watch carefully the next game you go to. Hargrove may well be an important glue man in this team.

 

[billiken_roy]

11 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Dat true.  With French out, and Bell seeing only a few minutes, we had no one to challenge at the rim.  Perkins and Hargrove played a lot in the paint and maybe were unsure of rotations.

No coincidence that our worst defense game of the year was when French was on the bench.

and perkins is probably the second worse defender on the team.   no doubt now, both are scorers, but until they buy in on defense, we will see more of last night in games.   and folks the a-10 doesnt have any maryville teams.   i.e. last night's defense loses in conference games.  

[Taj79]

In the 20th post on this thread, page one, I said the only thing I wanted to see was what Hargrove, Jacobs, Hankton and Diarra could do given the depleted roster.  From that perspective, Jacobs remains an enigma and Diarra an unknown.  What I got was this …. on Hankton ….. if he can't compete against a D2 school, when can he compete?  And on Hargrove … okay, he's been set loose.  He looked great, again albeit it a D2 school, but can now be added to the array of weapons and people on the bench.  He makes our bench deeper and better.

How do we find him minutes?  I think it is purely situational.  What's going down in last night is the promise was unveiled; to date we have all been sitting around wondering what's the problem with Hargrove.  Looks like he got it enough to get into the games from now on.  But again, situational. 

Many moons ago I saw Jordair Jett as a potential transfer out.  I was wrong and some like to make me pay for it still.  Here's another -- Hankton moves to the head of our next transfer class.  Given last night and with Markhi Strickland already signed, if KC is looking to play anywhere it's somewhere else. 

Diarra was a no show so open book there still.  And as some noted Jacobs remains the enigma.  Given the holes in  their zone and Jacobs ability to drive and be uber athletic, I expected much more.  Just didn't happen. 

A 13-poitn win is good enough.  The discovery of Terrance Hargrove is last night's big winner. 

[billiken_roy]

for maryville, i must say parker long was impressive.   it wouldnt surprise me if he ends up at a mvc or ovc school.   he doesnt seem to be a D2 player imo.  his only problem is he is little.  

[moytoy12]

Probably my favorite video they have done. 

[Old guy]

Thanks Motoy, loved the clip.

[billiken_roy]

looking at the box score, goodwin with 6 steals.    the rest of the billikens ........ 3.  

i forget the exact number but ford was talking about deflections which is a direct indicator of hustle and effort.   the billikens in a recent game had 30 something deflections and goodwin had half of them.   the kid is no doubt relentless.   why doesnt the likes of jacobs catch the fever?

[wgstl]

18 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

for maryville, i must say parker long was impressive. 

after reading this board throughout the game, seems people were far more impressed with him than I.  He did make some tough shots, but he also benefited from a zombie defense. 

[billikenfan05]

46 minutes ago, CBFan said:

I want Hargrove out on the court in the last couple of minutes when an opponent is trying to extend the game by fouling.

Hargrove’s free throws looked effortless and was accurate.  Our team has trouble closing out games with free throws Hargrove needs to be our closer.

Yep, you can offense for defense sub too. 

[Sheltiedave]

Roy, that is the difference between an all state high school player and a second team all conference player.

[RUBillsFan]

12 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

What I got was this …. on Hankton ….. if he can't compete against a D2 school, when can he compete? 

I'm not trying to argue that Hankton is a stud, but keep in mind that he has reportedly been injured.  He hadn't played at all in the last 2 games and only played 1 minute against SUIC.  He needs to be better, but some rust is understandable.

You might argue that Hargrove hasn't played either and he came out looking great (on offense).  He wasn't dealing with injuries though and his athleticism /game is totally different than Hankton.

Watching Perkins & Hargrove get bullied by Maryville's bigs and seeing JBJ too slow (or dealing with his own injury) means w really need Hankton to get healthy and step up as a guy who can play some passable post defense.

[wgstl]

1 minute ago, RUBillsFan said:

I'm not trying to argue that Hankton is a stud, but keep in mind that he has reportedly been injured.  He hadn't played at all in the last 2 games and only played 1 minute against SUIC.  He needs to be better, but some rust is understandable.

You might argue that Hargrove hasn't played either and he came out looking great (on offense).  He wasn't dealing with injuries though and his athleticism /game is totally different than Hankton.

Watching Perkins & Hargrove get bullied by Maryville's bigs and seeing JBJ too slow (or dealing with his own injury) means w really need Hankton to get healthy and step up as a guy who can play some passable post defense.

Also Hankton is better suited as a wing.  Hes having to play a position he had prior. Hes best as a stretchhhhh 4, heavy on the stretch part. 

[RiseOfTheBillikens]

2 minutes ago, RUBillsFan said:

I'm not trying to argue that Hankton is a stud, but keep in mind that he has reportedly been injured.  He hadn't played at all in the last 2 games and only played 1 minute against SUIC.  He needs to be better, but some rust is understandable.

You might argue that Hargrove hasn't played either and he came out looking great (on offense).  He wasn't dealing with injuries though and his athleticism /game is totally different than Hankton.

Watching Perkins & Hargrove get bullied by Maryville's bigs and seeing JBJ too slow (or dealing with his own injury) means w really need Hankton to get healthy and step up as a guy who can play some passable post defense.

I'd consider myself a hankton apologist. He didn't look good last night. I think my ceiling for him is now a solid contributor his senior year. He hasn't shown enough to me. That post move where he made that layup was ugly. I hope I'm wrong and he proves himself but I don't see him playing over Hargrove going forward.

[RUBillsFan]

9 minutes ago, wgstl said:

Also Hankton is better suited as a wing.  Hes having to play a position he had prior. Hes best as a stretchhhhh 4, heavy on the stretch part. 

That may be the case in a vacuum, but Hankton isn't playing as a wing on this team.  We have too much talent there that is better than him (Perkins, Goodwin, Jimerson, Hargrove, etc.).  Hankton is a 4 on our team (sometimes a 5 if we play small or get in foul trouble) and should be working on his game with that in mind.

[slufanskip]

5 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

sorry skip but it was a bad defensive display.   he could have become the new poster boy for ole defense. 

that said on the other end he was something else.   what a show.   definitely was fun to watch and now ford has to figure this out.   dont see how he can go back to not letting hargrove on the floor.   ford has to figure out how to hide hargrove's defense. 

We obviously disagree. I don't think he was great, nor did I say he was great. He just wasn't as bad as was being stated. He let in 35, he let in more than he scored. He  was no worse than Perkins (who is the worst defender on the team), Collins or Jacobs. Hell JGood (who is beginning to move into my all time favorite Billikens list)  had a couple of defensive lapses. I watched the game specifically to watch Hargrove. I expected to see a guy who was just lost. I didn't see that at all. He's probably still thinking too much and a little bit timid to make a mistake which actually causes mistakes, but he wasn't any worse than Perkins. Jacobs, or Collins. 

My point isn't to call him a great or even adequate defender for what the Bills want and need to do defensively. However, the tone of this thread was he was so bad it's understood why he doesn't see the floor. If that's the case, hold the other guys to the same standard and very few see the floor. 

In an unrelated remark anyone else see George Gervin in Perkins. Not obviously results wise but build and the way he moves and plays

[willie]

2 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

We obviously disagree. I don't think he was great, nor did I say he was great. He just wasn't as bad as was being stated. He let in 35, he let in more than he scored. He  was no worse than Perkins (who is the worst defender on the team), Collins or Jacobs. Hell JGood (who is beginning to move into my all time favorite Billikens list)  had a couple of defensive lapses. I watched the game specifically to watch Hargrove. I expected to see a guy who was just lost. I didn't see that at all. He's probably still thinking too much and a little bit timid to make a mistake which actually causes mistakes, but he wasn't any worse than Perkins. Jacobs, or Collins. 

My point isn't to call him a great or even adequate defender for what the Bills want and need to do defensively. However, the tone of this thread was he was so bad it's understood why he doesn't see the floor. If that's the case, hold the other guys to the same standard and very few see the floor. 

In an unrelated remark anyone else see George Gervin in Perkins. Not obviously results wise but build and the way he moves and plays

I agree with a lot of this. I don't think he was timid. He made several nice drives to the basket. I can only remember 1 or 2 bad shots. I like the  George Gervin comparison. I see Monroe Douglas in Hargrove. Looks -size and jumping ability. 

[slufanskip]

10 hours ago, cgeldmacher said:

I’ve already said that the idea that he gave up more than he scored was an exaggeration.   The point that I and others made is still true.  Hargrove showed us some great things and he also showed why he’s riding the bench a lot.

Other guys got scored on too, but there’s a difference between a D2 player firing up 3’s on our guards that are going in because they just can’t seem to miss and a D2 guy blowing by one Hargrove for an easy basket.  There was one time that he was literally standing on the wrong side of his man (not sure what the term is, but not basket side) when the guy caught the ball took one dribble and layed it in.

Add to that the fact that he almost started a fight with a D2 team when we’re already short on guys.  Goodwin had to restrain him for a good thirty seconds and a Ford had to come running over because Hargrove wouldn’t let it go.  He kept trying to push Goodwin away from him to get back at the guy.  If Goodwin tweaks any muscle in his body trying to hold Hargrove back in that situation, you’d be viewing things differently right now.

Again, I’m excited that he did well, but would like to see that sort of play against any D1 team before I get too excited or start questioning our coach about his playing time.

 

I didn't question Coach on his playing time nor did I claim he didn't make any mistakes. He was not the only guy getting blown by to the rim by D2 players, it happened to all our guards. Heck Collins gave up 3 free throws because he got beat on the 1st step and then ran into the shooter while trying to recover. Perkins got beat to the hole more than once and committed a reach foul at the halfcourt line as he was standing still, completely flat footed while the dribbler ran by him. I can go on and on calling people out play by play, but I'm not going to do that

 

I'm not advocating he start or anything near that, but he's earned some playing time and his D was much better than many on this board are claiming.  This was my last statement I'm simply stating it wasn't as bad as was being said by many especially compared with everyone else and that he's earned some playing time. 

 

[slufanskip]

12 minutes ago, willie said:

I agree with a lot of this. I don't think he was timid. He made several nice drives to the basket. I can only remember 1 or 2 bad shots. I like the  George Gervin comparison. I see Monroe Douglas in Hargrove. Looks -size and jumping ability. 

I'm talking thinking too much and timid defensively not offensively for sure

[3star_recruit]

1 hour ago, willie said:

I agree with a lot of this. I don't think he was timid. He made several nice drives to the basket. I can only remember 1 or 2 bad shots. I like the  George Gervin comparison. I see Monroe Douglas in Hargrove. Looks -size and jumping ability. 

Hargrove strongly reminds me in build and offensive game of dunker extraordinaire Rodney Williams that played for Minnesota. Held back by defensive fundamentals just like Hargrove, then blossomed into a double figure scorer as an upperclassman.

[cgeldmacher]

1 hour ago, slufanskip said:

I didn't question Coach on his playing time nor did I claim he didn't make any mistakes. He was not the only guy getting blown by to the rim by D2 players, it happened to all our guards. Heck Collins gave up 3 free throws because he got beat on the 1st step and then ran into the shooter while trying to recover. Perkins got beat to the hole more than once and committed a reach foul at the halfcourt line as he was standing still, completely flat footed while the dribbler ran by him. I can go on and on calling people out play by play, but I'm not going to do that

 

I'm not advocating he start or anything near that, but he's earned some playing time and his D was much better than many on this board are claiming.  This was my last statement I'm simply stating it wasn't as bad as was being said by many especially compared with everyone else and that he's earned some playing time. 

 

I wanted to give a "Good Post" but I'm out.  So, let me just say that I agree that he's earned a chance at some more playing time, but I wouldn't utilize those minutes, if I was Ford, on important games or situations.

[slu72]

Obviously few of you saw Harry Rogers play. Perkins is his clone. His jumper even looks like Harry's. Tar Heel can you back me up here. Also, Harry was sneaky quick and silky smooth getting to the hoop thru traffic. Perkins showed that a few times last night. 

I don't know what we can take away from Hankton except he seems weak. Could be he's favoring an injury. But as someone said, he's not a PF. He's a strrrrretch 4. And if he can't shoot 35-40% from 3 land, I don't know where he fits in. 

Jacobs still is the guy that baffles me. If there was a game tailor made for him to step on the gas last night was it. Once again he put up the gone fishing sign. He needs a firecracker, make that a cherry bomb, up his arse. I don't know if I'd start Hargrove over him but since there's only a 2" difference in their height, I could see giving some of Jacob's minutes to Hargrove especially when we need some energy.

As for Hargrove's D, I recall Mike Mitchell and how his lack of D got him benched by Majerus. Junior worked hard on it and became a really solid defender after he got a lot of pine time. I'm hoping, after tasting success last night and hearing the cheers, Hargrove will start putting in the extra effort required to become a solid defender. God knows he's got the raw athleticism to be a good defender. No one has commented on that block last night where it was a put back off a missed shot, Hargrove flew about 4 feet to block the put back attempt. that was pretty solid D. 

[Sheltiedave]

Slu72, Perkins is Harry’s little brother in all senses. Harry averaged 22 ppg and 8.5 rebounds his junior year,and could play very good d if challenged. Perkins would Need to snort a line of coke before every game, and have a glazed look in his , to get near Harry’s level of werewolf.

Harry is third all time at 18.4 ppg  over 3 seasons, fourth in ft % at 0.822, and twelfth in total rebounds with 680.

[slu72]

36 minutes ago, Sheltiedave said:

Slu72, Perkins is Harry’s little brother in all senses. Harry averaged 22 ppg and 8.5 rebounds his junior year,and could play very good d if challenged. Perkins would Need to snort a line of coke before every game, and have a glazed look in his , to get near Harry’s level of werewolf.

Harry is third all time at 18.4 ppg  over 3 seasons, fourth in ft % at 0.822, and twelfth in total rebounds with 680.

Didn't say he was Harry, but he sure looks like him on offense