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What is the Story on Hargrove

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24 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Yes. But high school coaches don't have the impact they used to have with the rise of AAU ball. Did he have different coaches there too?

I don't agree with that.  It seems to me that AAU ball is more about featuring players and getting them scholarships and high school ball is more about teams.  The coaches of high school teams probably spend much more time on plays and schemes than AAU coaches, who probably spend more time on individual skills.

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34 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Yes. But high school coaches dont have the impact they used to have with the rise of AAU ball. Did he have different coaches there too?

The beagles were loaded.  He just didn't play that much in AAU.

And I don't think AAU is noted for coaching.  It's more about giving the players a stage vs the best competition where college coaches  can come to see them play in the offseason

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3 hours ago, thetorch said:

He actually had 5.

Hargrove is the opposite of Gordon.  I'm not worried about his commitment to the team.  We have a couple players in the rotation who are candidates for long term benchings.  If Hargrove keeps working he'll see some time.

I figure Perkins is one. Who is the other?

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8 minutes ago, kmbilliken said:

I figure Perkins is one. Who is the other?

Now that we're 2-0, let's publicly bash players -- classy.

The story on Hargrove is he's one of the most athletic players to ever wear a Billiken uniform and will see plenty of time eventually. Lot of competition for minutes this year, which is a good thing.

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1 hour ago, VeniceMenace said:

Now that we're 2-0, let's publicly bash players -- classy.

The story on Hargrove is he's one of the most athletic players to ever wear a Billiken uniform and will see plenty of time eventually. Lot of competition for minutes this year, which is a good thing.

Coach Ford did so I think we are OK. I'm pretty sure the guys know who loafed through shootarounds and the game yesterday. Just look at the minutes.

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What does 4 coaches in hs have to do with TJ being benched? So many players have multiple hs coaches and transfer in the top 40. He obviously won a title with one coach so what am I missing? Wasn’t his AAU at least solid 

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13 minutes ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said:

What does 4 coaches in hs have to do with TJ being benched? So many players have multiple hs coaches and transfer in the top 40. He obviously won a title with one coach so what am I missing? Wasn’t his AAU at least solid 

Are you purposefully obtuse?

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3 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

Yes. But high school coaches dont have the impact they used to have with the rise of AAU ball. Did he have different coaches there too?

Maybe the 4 counts his AAU coach?

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12 minutes ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said:

What does 4 coaches in hs have to do with TJ being benched? So many players have multiple hs coaches and transfer in the top 40. He obviously won a title with one coach so what am I missing? Wasn’t his AAU at least solid 

What you are missing is that Coach Ford has always required a mastery of team defensive and offensive basics and again appears to be requiring it with Hargrove.  Also, early reports are that Hargrove apparently may be lacking some of these and the source appears to be his multiple high school coaches - inconsistent and bad.   Yes he has sure enjoyed success prior to SLU. Yes, his team won State.  So yes, maybe these reports are wrong. Maybe not.  If true, and if Hargrove has been this good with bad coaching, imagine how good he might be for us with good coaching!!

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3 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

What you are missing is that Coach Ford has always required a mastery of team defensive and offensive basics and again appears to be requiring it with Hargrove.  Also, early reports are that Hargrove apparently may be lacking some of these and the source appears to be his multiple high school coaches - inconsistent and bad.   Yes he has sure enjoyed success prior to SLU. Yes, his team won State.  So yes, maybe these reports are wrong. Maybe not.  If true, and if Hargrove has been this good with bad coaching, imagine how good he might be for us with good coaching!!

His coach at ESTL was bad last year and they won a state championship?

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1 hour ago, VeniceMenace said:

His coach at ESTL was bad last year and they won a state championship?

It's not a matter of whether his coaches in high school were bad, but it's the matter that he didn't get to learn and master just one system and has so much more to "unlearn" to master the differences at SLU.

Think about how much better quarterbacks are when they're beyond their first season with a particular quarterbacks coach/offensive coordinator.  Hargrove has never been beyond a first season with any coach, apparently.

East St. Louis High (and also Vashon) athletes rarely seem to be well polished for the next level right out of the gate.  Jeremiah Tilmon hasn't made a particularly smooth transition to Missouri and just now appears to have figured things out (but the season is still young, so we'll see how he does against SEC bigs).  SLU's most recent recruit from East Side, Anthony Mitchell, was raw and couldn't play for Rick Majerus.  Before that Tommie Liddell III had the advantage of the year of prep school between his matriculating from East Side and his arrival at SLU.

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10 hours ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said:

What does 4 coaches in hs have to do with TJ being benched? So many players have multiple hs coaches and transfer in the top 40. He obviously won a title with one coach so what am I missing? Wasn’t his AAU at least solid 

I'm curious, whose minutes would you give to Hargrove?  And why?  (Don't go with Hightower, he has 3 minutes of mop up duty.  Plus that would only give Hargrove 4 minutes for the year, which I assume isn't your point.)

Bell?  Start Hargrove in the post?

Perkins?  Hankton?  Weaver?  Jimerson?  Someone with meaningful minutes has to sit if Hargrove gets meaningful minutes.

And repeating myself, please say why player "A" sits for Hargrove. 

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4 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

I'm curious, whose minutes would you give to Hargrove?  And why?  (Don't go with Hightower, he has 3 minutes of mop up duty.  Plus that would only give Hargrove 4 minutes for the year, which I assume isn't your point.)

Bell?  Start Hargrove in the post?

Perkins?  Hankton?  Weaver?  Jimerson?  Someone with meaningful minutes has to sit if Hargrove gets meaningful minutes.

This is exactly how I feel we are 2-0 with the players that have been on the court.  Bell must play and improve for our team to have a chance at the big dance.  Hankton has done a good job the first two games along with Jacobs, Weaver, Collins, Jimerson, Thatch.  We have 10 players that I am confident in contributing and knowing what they are supposed to do.  I want Hargrove out on the floor.  I stood up and cheered when Hargrove came out on the floor however in coach Ford I trust along with the 10 productive players on the floor if Hargrove is not ready then so be it.  GloryTRavsClock always start stuff like this for example he claimed that Jacobs and Hankton would transfer.

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18 minutes ago, CBFan said:

This is exactly how I feel we are 2-0 with the players that have been on the court.  Bell must play and improve for our team to have a chance at the big dance.  Hankton has done a good job the first two games along with Jacobs, Weaver, Collins, Jimerson, Thatch.  We have 10 players that I am confident in contributing and knowing what they are supposed to do.  I want Hargrove out on the floor.  I stood up and cheered when Hargrove came out on the floor however in coach Ford I trust along with the 10 productive players on the floor if Hargrove is not ready then so be it.  GloryTRavsClock always start stuff like this for example he claimed that Jacobs and Hankton would transfer.

Exactly. Freshman need time.

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1 hour ago, CBFan said:

This is exactly how I feel we are 2-0 with the players that have been on the court.  Bell must play and improve for our team to have a chance at the big dance.  Hankton has done a good job the first two games along with Jacobs, Weaver, Collins, Jimerson, Thatch.  We have 10 players that I am confident in contributing and knowing what they are supposed to do.  I want Hargrove out on the floor.  I stood up and cheered when Hargrove came out on the floor however in coach Ford I trust along with the 10 productive players on the floor if Hargrove is not ready then so be it.  GloryTRavsClock always start stuff like this for example he claimed that Jacobs and Hankton would transfer.

That settles it, we need Bell to play because it is the only way he will progress, we need Hargrove to play because he may very well become our best player. So, we need to go to a 12 man rotation.

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23 hours ago, Billboy1 said:

Has anybody heard anything on him?

I've seen him play a fair amount and have written about him in my practice report.  He's a great kid with probably the most explosive leaping ability in the 20 years + I've been following the Bills.  He can become a great finisher and I am so looking forward to the dozens of freakish Yuri-to-TJ dunks we will be oohing and Ahhing about in the coming years. Also a good outside shooter by the way; and great enthusiasm. I'm very bullish on young TJ, so lighten up.  Give him a chance to adjust some, figure out all the sets/ defensive schemes; get used to going to class/reading/studying at a top-100 level university, etc.  Our 20-pt. scorer Jacobs, by the way, looked pretty much lost in the headlights about 90% of all of last year, by the way.  Athletes get better.  We have played a total of ONE game.  Relax...

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1 hour ago, DoctorB said:

I've seen him play a fair amount and have written about him in my practice report.  He's a great kid with probably the most explosive leaping ability in the 20 years + I've been following the Bills.  He can become a great finisher and I am so looking forward to the dozens of freakish Yuri-to-TJ dunks we will be oohing and Ahhing about in the coming years. Also a good outside shooter by the way; and great enthusiasm. I'm very bullish on young TJ, so lighten up.  Give him a chance to adjust some, figure out all the sets/ defensive schemes; get used to going to class/reading/studying at a top-100 level university, etc.  Our 20-pt. scorer Jacobs, by the way, looked pretty much lost in the headlights about 90% of all of last year, by the way.  Athletes get better.  We have played a total of ONE game.  Relax...

2 games

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Ford has a plan and he is sticking to it. Hargrove will get his time on the floor, and it will come in a manner where he is best situated to succeed. All the new players that get the basics down will get a 5-10 minute Indoc session, if they do well, they can earn a 20 minute session. If they go more than 20 minutes, the barn is on fire and they can hit major starter minutes.

Ford is old school and this is an old school pattern for a major developmental year, with the planks he is trying to develop.

Right now I think he is concerned with the thug school team the most. Many of us were hoping with The missing points that Bess and Isabell provided, a rotation spearheaded by Perkins and Jimerson would hit the points and provide a reasonable level of thug. Neither is rapidly developing. Perkins never played belly ball defense in juco, and Ditto for Jimerson in prep.

Collins has been quite a pleasant surprise defensively, playing stout D without fouling, and rebounding like a small forward.

He who shan’t be named is still learning about lane close outs, switches, and defensive positioning, so we have two of the three bigs slots deficient in thuggery. This is why we are getting exposed on D, both in the paint and deep.

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2 hours ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said:

Goodwin and thatch were in deep foul trouble last game. Would that not put TJ in? We are playing horrible teams right now. I feel like that’s the time to get the freshmen mistakes out early 

Goodwin played 38 minutes, so he was not an option for Hargrove, unless those 2 minutes are what you are looking for.  (In fact, Hargrove did get 1 of those minutes (32 seconds rounded up) when he came in for Goodwin at the end of the first half when he got his second.  So there you go!  Done deal, right.😉)

As Jimerson came in for Thatch at the 15:17 mark of the first half, when he picked up his second, are you advocating sitting Jimerson and giving his minutes to Hargrove?  Someone has to give up clock.

Horrible team?  Were you at the game?  This was a two point game at the 5:19 mark and a three point game with 3:40 left on the clock.

I asked for your response and you gave it.  Thanks.

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Good God, he'll play when Ford thinks it's the time for him to play. All this speculation is jibber jabber. Yes, we realize he's a special athlete, so there has to be a gap(s) in his game that is preventing him from getting clock. No coach worth his salt is going to sit a guy who could help win games, unless he's not ready to help win games.

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On 11/10/2019 at 10:08 AM, Billboy1 said:

Has anybody heard anything on him? Hurt, considering transfer, etc.

Two things are going on here.  The first is that transfers are so common in college basketball today that these are the thoughts that first come to mind for so many.  The other is that we have what we've been screaming for throughout the years - true depth.  Let's not halt the parade before all floats have even started.  What's happening with Hargrove is what should be happening in a good bball program.  It will help his development and truly push him to earn minutes on the court.

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1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

Goodwin played 38 minutes, so he was not an option for Hargrove, unless those 2 minutes are what you are looking for.  (In fact, Hargrove did get 1 of those minutes (32 seconds rounded up) when he came in for Goodwin at the end of the first half when he got his second.  So there you go!  Done deal, right.😉)

As Jimerson came in for Thatch at the 15:17 mark of the first half, when he picked up his second, are you advocating sitting Jimerson and giving his minutes to Hargrove?  Someone has to give up clock.

Horrible team?  Were you at the game?  This was a two point game at the 5:19 mark and a three point game with 3:40 left on the clock.

I asked for your response and you gave it.  Thanks.

It’s a long season and we don’t need to play Goodwin 38 min or Jacobs 34 min with our deep bench. We need to get guys like TJ comfortable on the court in case heaven forbid someone gets injured against a team like Seton Hall next week 

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18 minutes ago, Clocktoweraccords2004 said:

It’s a long season and we don’t need to play Goodwin 38 min or Jacobs 34 min with our deep bench. We need to get guys like TJ comfortable on the court in case heaven forbid someone gets injured against a team like Seton Hall next week 

uuuhhhh.  Yes, we do.  We need to win the game we should win to keep the team/season rolling along - and along the way, we need to give minutes to the new guys.  But to say Goodwin (by far our best player) should not have played so much is ludicrous.Did you not watch the game?   Had we not squandered our lead, I do believe that Goodwin would have played less and guys like Hargrove and Perkins played more.   If we want guys 8 thru 12 play, and play more; and if we must blame someone, then might I suggest we blame guys 3 thru 7 as opposed to our best player.

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