What is the Story on Hargrove

[majerus mojo]

3 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

Well... that didn't take long, but you're wrong again.  It is NOT clear that he is a wing (IMO, that's a 3).  You, though, look at his height and say he is a wing.   And his height has varied from 6'4" to 6'7".  I have not seen Hargrove demonstrate the guard/dribbling skills necessary for a wing.  Hope he can play wing.  Right now, though, he appears to be playing more of a back-up to French and others at the 4.  Either way, though, it is hard to say b/c he has honestly played so little.   And while I don't see Hargrove ever playing center (5) for us,  I do see him in the mix for lineups with two (2) big men:  meaning the 4 and 5 spot.

 

3 hours ago, glazedandconfused said:

He was listed as up to 6’7 in high school but i would guess the SLU roster (6’4”) is a little more accurate.

2 points: (1.) Ford isn’t playing him for a reason. And there’s no signs that it’s a non basketball reason that he’s not playing and (2.) you’re proving the point why he isn’t playing yet. Yes he has incredible athleticism as seen in his highlight reel, but he doesn’t have the ball handling dribbling skills to play yet. And realistically without an outside shot, his game (and others in the same boat) will always be limited in their contributions to this team as it currently exists...the offense will run through Goodwin French and Collins and others need to create space/hit shots and play good defense

I know everyone is referred as a “wing” these days, but from what I’ve seen I think Hargrove projects best as an “old school” small forward... a 3. You don’t need great guard skills to be a forward. He may not have the greatest jumpshot, but his game seems to be more in the mold of a Corey Maggette; driving to the bucket, using his athleticism, getting to the line, etc. He shouldn’t have trouble scoring in the A-10 as his career progresses. 

[WVBilliken]

2 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

Because we were so short-handed, Hines got playing time. We are not now shorthanded.  

And I am tired of hearing what our guys cannot do --especially the Frosh and Sophs.  Time for an opportunity.   Based upon last year, many thought Jacobs and Hankton were both recruited over and some even starting to talk about them both transferring.   Glad they are still here and contributing - and improved from their Freshman year.

And don't give up on Sophomore dribbling skills.  As a Sophomore, French could not drive and slash to the basket like he has shown this year.  Goodwin's decision making has improved since last year.  Bess sure improved over his time at SLU.  Isabell sure improved over his year.  Maybe Thatch and Jacobs both need a little time handling the ball and running the team as PG instead of a walkon.

And yes, the status of Hargrove is basketball related, I am not suggesting he play right now and I am not sure what his ideal position is/will be.  No hurry.  Time is always available for really good players.

And yes, the spelling of Jimerson was either an auto correct or a Freudian slip - as I do love to sip, Jameson, and Bush Mills, and Knob Creek, and Jack Daniels and...

Play the best player.  If it the walk-on.  Fine.  And not just anybody can play PG.  Jeez .......‍

[HoosierPal]

12 minutes ago, WVBilliken said:

Play the best player.  If it the walk-on.  Fine.  And not just anybody can play PG.  Jeez .......‍

A lot of posters just don't understand this. 

And where is the outrage that Diarra isn't playing.  Let him bring the ball up-court and run the offense.  By gosh, he is on scholarship.

[Old guy]

I really do not think we are going to see a lot minutes of Diarra's play this season. Hargrove should be different and, in my opinion, we should see him playing a fair amount.

[slufanskip]

52 minutes ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

Ian Mooney.

That's the guy but he wasn't a starter or near starter

[SLUMS81]

When it comes to athletes vs basketball players,  I will bet on the basketball players.     TH will get plenty of minutes when he becomes a more complete basketball player.

[brianstl]

It is nice to have a roster talented enough at the wing position to be able to properly develop a guy as talented as Hargrove without having to feed him to the wolves before he is ready.

[3star_recruit]

15 minutes ago, brianstl said:

It is nice to have a roster talented enough at the wing position to be able to properly develop a guy as talented as Hargrove without having to feed him to the wolves before he is ready.

I'm not convinced that he is so unprepared that playing him is akin to feeding him to the wolves.  There just aren't enough minutes to develop Perkins and Hargrove.  Perkins is only playing 14 minutes a game as it is.  Splitting those minutes with Hargrove would slow down the progress of two players instead of one.

[RiseAndGrind]

24 minutes ago, brianstl said:

It is nice to have a roster talented enough at the wing position to be able to properly develop a guy as talented as Hargrove without having to feed him to the wolves before he is ready.

I don't like to talk about Mizzou, but Tray Jackson and Mario McKinney (both more highly recruited) are getting little minutes for an average Mizzou team. Yuri Collins is the exception - not the norm.

[3star_recruit]

4 minutes ago, RiseAndGrind said:

I don't like to talk about Mizzou, but Tray Jackson and Mario McKinney (both more highly recruited) are getting little minutes for an average Mizzou team. Yuri Collins is the exception - not the norm.

Exactly.  When there are talented upperclassmen at your position, you're probably not going to play much.

[DoctorB]

15 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

 There just aren't enough minutes to develop Perkins and Hargrove.  Perkins is only playing 14 minutes a game as it is.  Splitting those minutes with Hargrove would slow down the progress of two players instead of one.

This is it.  What is the big mystery on all this?  In close games the best players will get the most minutes, and for once, we have plenty of talent.  Last year Hargrove would have played more, especially in the 4 games in 4 days window. Now: FINALLY we have become a program where pretty good freshmen need to improve and earn their minutes.  There are some really good freshmen on top 25 teams all over America, getting ZERO minutes, believe me...

And yes, Perkins is ahead of TJH, and should be.  Wait till the headlights go on with him, because in February I think he will be much improved, and we need microwave scoring off the bench. Perkins can score, folks.

Yes, unlike youth soccer, everyone does not get to play equally.  TJH will be FINE, give him some time.

[Clock_Tower]

On 11/26/2019 at 9:49 PM, HoosierPal said:

A lot of posters just don't understand this. 

And where is the outrage that Diarra isn't playing.  Let him bring the ball up-court and run the offense.  By gosh, he is on scholarship.

Hoosier. Guess we will have to agree to disagree.   Normally, there is a reason why guys are on scholarship and why others are not - and I don't mean giving an unused scholarship to a walk-on.  IMO, scholarship guys are usually better than non-scholarship - but you don't need to agree me..  You are free to believe that Hightower is better than Hargrove - I don't.   But even if Hightower were to have the edge now with some PG skills, I like Hargrove's upside over Hightower's upside over the long term and believe Hargrove is the better player - and that playing time, any playing time, would only help Hargrove. 

Again, I am NOT suggesting that Hargrove play, and play now in that I trust Coach Ford and believe that Hargrove may not yet be ready from a basketball standpoint.  Fine with me.

Laugh all you want - but I would play the scholarship guys first - especially in mop up roles with a 20 point lead and 2 minutes left in the game.   And while I would not play Diarra at the PG - no difference would occur who played PG in the last 2 minutes of a game with a 20 point lead.   Unlike you, I don't see the offense run much during the end of game mop up time - instead, I see a lot of guys who choose not to pass but instead to dribble/shoot to get into the box score stats.   

[Clock_Tower]

On 11/26/2019 at 6:10 PM, Quality Is Job 1 said:

If Hines could transcend walk-on status, why can't Hightower?

Thicks.   Yes, not saying he cannot.  I am thankful for Hines during that low-point of Billiken basketball.   IMO, though, our program needs to have higher standards.  Not many Top 50 play walk-ons during meaningful minutes.

[cheeseman]

While Hines did end up on schollie his situation was due to the fact that there was nobody else.  Today he would not be on schollie unless he took Hightower's place as a gift.  Had Ford landed a recruit that he thought was worth giving a multi year schollie Hightower would be still walk on status.

[Old guy]

If nothing really bad happens, why not continue developing these 3 players to the level they fit the  way the team plays? The one time Hargrove played the longest he scored 2 pts., had a rebound and two blocks. If I recall correctly the blocks were achieved by batting the balls in the way to the basket, this was very good. However, to be under the basket Hargrove left the guy he was guarding uncovered in the  corner, which allowed him to score a 3 pointer. I think Ford does not want things like that to happen.

What I said above is the way I saw it as it happened, however as you all know my knowledge of basketball, particularly the way coaches want players to play, is minimal to non existent. I may well be totally wrong here. I do think that Hargrove has to learn to play as part of the team first, then he will play.

[willie]

10 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

While Hines did end up on schollie his situation was due to the fact that there was nobody else.  Today he would not be on schollie unless he took Hightower's place as a gift.  Had Ford landed a recruit that he thought was worth giving a multi year schollie Hightower would be still walk on status.

Am I missing something . I thought Hightower was a walk on. I thought they gave the last scholarship to Jack Rabon who has been here for 3 years. 

[slufanskip]

57 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Hoosier. Guess we will have to agree to disagree.   Normally, there is a reason why guys are on scholarship and why others are not - and I don't mean giving an unused scholarship to a walk-on.  IMO, scholarship guys are usually better than non-scholarship - but you don't need to agree me..  You are free to believe that Hightower is better than Hargrove - I don't.   But even if Hightower were to have the edge now with some PG skills, I like Hargrove's upside over Hightower's upside over the long term and believe Hargrove is the better player - and that playing time, any playing time, would only help Hargrove. 

Again, I am NOT suggesting that Hargrove play, and play now in that I trust Coach Ford and believe that Hargrove may not yet be ready from a basketball standpoint.  Fine with me.

Laugh all you want - but I would play the scholarship guys first - especially in mop up roles with a 20 point lead and 2 minutes left in the game.   And while I would not play Diarra at the PG - no difference would occur who played PG in the last 2 minutes of a game with a 20 point lead.   Unlike you, I don't see the offense run much during the end of game mop up time - instead, I see a lot of guys who choose not to pass but instead to dribble/shoot to get into the box score stats.   

There is absolutely no question Hargrove is a better player than Hightower. It's not about who's better right now. It's about who understands where to be and what to do both offensively and defensively. 

[Sheltiedave]

Hargrove was the PF/C on ESL Now he is a wing forward, and most play through screens and do 2-3 rotations/switches every defensive possession.

It takes half a season to learn and play up to this radical change in upper D1.

[Spoon-Balls]

When Hargrove begins to play effective defense, starts to understand the offensive schemes, and knows how to contribute offensively even when he is not holding the ball, he will be a star. Until then, he is a liability, and I prefer Ford providing him a low pressure environment to learn and grow as a player rather than, as some have already stated, "feed him to the wolves." 

Trust the process. This team is not even close to reaching its full potential. 

[HoosierPal]

7 hours ago, Clock_Tower said:

Hoosier. Guess we will have to agree to disagree.   Normally, there is a reason why guys are on scholarship and why others are not - and I don't mean giving an unused scholarship to a walk-on.  IMO, scholarship guys are usually better than non-scholarship - but you don't need to agree me..  You are free to believe that Hightower is better than Hargrove - I don't.   But even if Hightower were to have the edge now with some PG skills, I like Hargrove's upside over Hightower's upside over the long term and believe Hargrove is the better player - and that playing time, any playing time, would only help Hargrove. 

Again, I am NOT suggesting that Hargrove play, and play now in that I trust Coach Ford and believe that Hargrove may not yet be ready from a basketball standpoint.  Fine with me.

Laugh all you want - but I would play the scholarship guys first - especially in mop up roles with a 20 point lead and 2 minutes left in the game.   And while I would not play Diarra at the PG - no difference would occur who played PG in the last 2 minutes of a game with a 20 point lead.   Unlike you, I don't see the offense run much during the end of game mop up time - instead, I see a lot of guys who choose not to pass but instead to dribble/shoot to get into the box score stats.   

Isn’t it a good thing that Coach Ford is paid to make these decisions?