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Jacobs role this year

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59 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

i am the biggest lisch fan in the world, but i am here to tell you  kevin lisch never shot 50% from the 3 point line.   jimmmerson is going to shoot 50%+.

To put that in perspective:

  • Jimerson shot .460 from 3 in his last AAU season with Boo Williams (Nike EYBL). He was 40-87 from the field.
  • The highest 3-point percentage registered by a SLU freshman with at least 50 attempts was .430 by Marcus Bartley (37-86).
  • The most 3-pointers made in a season by a SLU freshman was 58 by Kevin Lisch. He was 58-140, or .414.
  • Those are both excellent marks by freshmen.
  • The most 3-pointers made in a season was 103 by Erwin Claggett, the only guy to make 100 or more in a season as a Billiken. It took him 246 attempts (.418).
  • The highest 3-point percentage ever registered by a SLU player was .500, when Roland Gray made 56-112 in 1988-1989.
  • These are also both excellent shooting seasons.
  • Claggett is the all-time leader in 3-point field goals made, with 295. His career percentage was .412, which is fourth all-time. Lisch is right behind him with 259 makes and .395 (8th).
  • Gray is the all-time leader in 3-point percentage, at .457 (105-230). The second-place mark is all the way down at .420 (H Waldman). SLU has only had 6 players with a career mark of .400 or better.

Basically, Roy, you're saying that Jimerson will break the SLU single season 3FG% record his freshman season if you're talking about a season record, and if you're talking about his career, he'd be by far the best shooter in SLU history. Keep in mind that the line has moved back twice - once this offseason - since most of the marks listed above.

I think he's the best shooter we've ever had coming in and could go down as the best shooter in SLU history if he stays there and stays healthy. .500 is a crazy goal, though.

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50%.   sticking with it.   

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-I realize it was just an exhibition for fun but I am HOPING this part of the Madness was real, I am HOPING GJ has a complete green light to shoot the 3 whenever, wherever he gets the ball, it seemed to be that way on Friday and I HOPE it is that way for this season and the next 3

-the release is the quickest we have ever had (is there any dispute on this?) and more importantly, from Friday and all things leading up to now, the kid is a shooter and a maker

-let the record book get rewritten

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25 minutes ago, Cowboy said:

-I realize it was just an exhibition for fun but I am HOPING this part of the Madness was real, I am HOPING GJ has a complete green light to shoot the 3 whenever, wherever he gets the ball, it seemed to be that way on Friday and I HOPE it is that way for this season and the next 3

-the release is the quickest we have ever had (is there any dispute on this?) and more importantly, from Friday and all things leading up to now, the kid is a shooter and a maker

-let the record book get rewritten

i was thinking maybe jolly had a quicker release (you said nothing about makes).   who can forget that shot over the backboard and how quick he got that up.

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50% would be amazing. I think by projecting this your expectations for Jimerson are higher than mine for Yurimania playing the PG. I anxiously await Taj Mahal 79's response to your expectations, since he was so critical of my being all in on Yurimania. 

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5 hours ago, bauman said:

...especially in light of the 3 pt. arc being moved this year.  I'm pretty pumped about the entire recruiting class TF and staff have put together for this year, but I'm most excited about Jimmmerson.  I would be thrilled with 45%+ from him, and even more so if KCH, Jacobs and Perkins can be in the 40% area.  (See Billikenswin's practice report, above)

I would be ecstatic to have three players shooting even 35% from three ( minimum 2 attempts a game). There were only three teams in the league who had such a trio last year: Davidson, Duquesne and La Salle. And none of those teams are known for their defense. It's really hard to build a team that is athletic enough to defend at a high level and shoots it well from outside.

Your best shooters are rarely your best defenders. St. Bonaventure's secret these past few years is having two 15 ppg shooters who are also high level defenders.

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The NCAA Division 1 3pt FG% leader last year did not shoot 50% from 3, and that was before the line moved back

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My response to roy's hopes and dreams is a word of caution ………………. SLU ….. where jump shots come to die.

Having said that, I want Jimmmmerson to slay that beast and end that fire-breathing urban legend.  We shall see.  Much like Yurimainia, the answer remains 'show me.' 

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2 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

50%.   sticking with it.   

I think if every one correctly spells Jimmerson's  name, he can hit 60% from the 3.

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Just now, brianstl said:

I think if every one correctly spells Jimmerson's  name, he gone hit 60% from the 3.

It'll never happen......

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Five Top Season 3 FG %

1. Gray,  88-89 56/112  50.0%

2.  Brown, 07-08, 25/51  49.0%

3. Newberry, 89-90, 29/63  46%

4. Liddell, 06-07 49/108  45.4%

5.  Claggett, 92-93, 71/158  44.9%

Lisch is not in the Top 10 Season 3FG% .  His high water mark was his freshman season, 05-06, 58/140, 41.4%. 

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3 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

i am the biggest lisch fan in the world, but i am here to tell you  kevin lisch never shot 50% from the 3 point line.   jimmmerson is going to shoot 50%+.

are you saying 50% this year, 50% at some point, or a career average of 50%?  Because if he goes 50% this year, hell 44% this year this team will be very good. 

 

I'll say this, if Jimmerson hits a 45% clip(while shooting more than 4 a game avg) this team will be better than last years. 

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Six points a game will barely offset the projected average loss of points scored on free throw delta.

Bess, Isabell, and Foreman represent a negative point delta of 35 ppg.

I expect Perkins to hit about 12 ppg if he does well. French and Goodwin can both bump their averages 5 ppg, along with Thatch.

That gets us 27 ppg, so we are only 8 ppg short of last year, BUT our defense slips 5 ppg, so we now are 13 ppg behind on differential.

This is why French and Goodwin need to move mountains on FT%, and why we need to develop the four out/one in, and the beautiful game.

If we can throw a press, two three point assassins, a mid range shooter, and a new PG who can feed French or the leaking weak side wing, then we are in good shape. It may take a lot of pain to get there.

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8 hours ago, Taj79 said:

Well, clock, thanks for the 50% agreement.  Above, you describe folks in terms of Magic, Cooper, Scott and Worthy.  I describe them as no point guard, no ballhandler, no spacing, no open man and no pulling up.  Those are the exact same things in my book.  My point was that fastbreak basketball just doesn't happen, it has to be practicing and preached and incorporated into the game plan.  We did not do that because we did not have the right pieces and our break worked on rare occasions.  So I think we agree there.

My big disagreement with you is then when you say we looked good in the A10 tournament and then you turn my words around over disaster.  Yes, we did, we won.  But was it because of fast break basketball?  My words said we were a disaster when we tried to run.  Disagree?  Not based on your words above.  I never said we were a disaster in the A10 tournament -- I said our running game was a disaster when we attempted it.    And forgive me but I do not recall us running our way to four wins in Brooklyn.  We beat Richmond by what a bucket and ditto the Bonnies.  We blew Dayton and Davidson out but that was more predicated on tough defense not running folks out of the gym.  We played with essentially six guys in four nights so I recall no real running at all.  A week in Brooklyn sure erases a lot of woes that last season included and I'm fine with that. 

Yes there were nights last year when we were good and Goodwin, Bess, Isabell and others were good.  Let's erase those four games in Brooklyn -- how then do you define last season.  Me?  One with huge promises that were never fulfilled …… UNTIL Brooklyn. 

Let me jump into the cess part of this pool and remind all of one of my parting statements last year -- Jordan Goodwin needs a lot of work.  I love the kid's grit and determination.  I love his leadership.  I love his defensive tenacity.  I love his offensive rebounding.  His shooting percentages … where the money game is played ….. well, here comes 2019-2020.  And I'll agree with you in that with better personnel and better finishers, he'll distribute better and have an increase in his assist totals.  Those are the hard things to come by supposedly.  I think if we do indeed run more, that will paly to his strengths.  But if we are going to  be a walk-it-up, run a 10-secodn three-man weave kind of team, then improvements will be hard to see.  Frankly, the same areas of improvement are needed from French and Thatch (the guy you said doesn't want to shoot much at all) if team improvement is to be expected and these are our returning 'Big Three.'  Lots of unknowns with thi steam going forward.

That's why Ocotber can't end soon enough and we see what the product is come next month. 

Yes. We are probably closer in agreement then not. And yes, as I mentioned, it is hard to play a true running game with only six players. At the same time, we did score 71, 64 and 67 points in our three games prior to the A10 final game in which Goodwin may have played his best game so that is not a slow down, take the air out of the ball game. And running teams usually start the fast break with their defense.

Frankly, I believe there is some middle ground. I do not believe Goodwin will go down as our best and most creative, pass first  point guard but at the same time I believe he is more valuable than some are giving him credit for. And I believe that as good as Bess was for us on our team, he could not and did not provide the outside scoring we needed - even on the fast break. And yes, Thatch appeared at times to not want to even shoot the ball. And no, I do not put Thatch in the category of the “big three”. To me, there is French and Goodwin (big two) and then there is everyone else. Thatch may have a real advantage over the pack because of his defense but certainly not for any other abilities shown last year. 

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Thatch had four players he had to defer to, and Foreman would be the fifth.

The very few times he absolutely had to shoot the hot potato with a second on the shot clock, he effectively won the game.

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29 minutes ago, Sheltiedave said:

Thatch had four players he had to defer to, and Foreman would be the fifth.

The very few times he absolutely had to shoot the hot potato with a second on the shot clock, he effectively won the game.

Yeah. Not buying “he had to defer to”. If you believe that, fine. 

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I think we are going down two different discussions here ......

This was never a running team and your point totals ..... 71, 64 and 67 .... bear that out. To me, a running/uptempo team would score about 80 ppg ..... namely at about two points per minute. That's how, unscientifically, I'd call it.  The lunatic teams .... the Running Rebels in their heyday, Loyola Marymount under Westphal, Havoc at VCU .... those guys posted 100 ppg which is off the charts.  Our defense allowed us to win but it did not translate into offense by any stretch of the imagination.  Sure, one or two buckets but nothing sustained.  

I never said we took the air out of the ball ala the four corners.  But we did employ deliberate tactics for the most part.  Call that six men.  Call that deliberate.  But we didn't run because we didn't know how nor have the bench to do so.  

And again, if we don't win those four in Brooklyn, how would you have classified the season in review?

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4 hours ago, Taj79 said:

I think we are going down two different discussions here ......

This was never a running team and your point totals ..... 71, 64 and 67 .... bear that out. To me, a running/uptempo team would score about 80 ppg ..... namely at about two points per minute. That's how, unscientifically, I'd call it.  The lunatic teams .... the Running Rebels in their heyday, Loyola Marymount under Westphal, Havoc at VCU .... those guys posted 100 ppg which is off the charts.  Our defense allowed us to win but it did not translate into offense by any stretch of the imagination.  Sure, one or two buckets but nothing sustained.  

I never said we took the air out of the ball ala the four corners.  But we did employ deliberate tactics for the most part.  Call that six men.  Call that deliberate.  But we didn't run because we didn't know how nor have the bench to do so.  

And again, if we don't win those four in Brooklyn, how would you have classified the season in review?

 Yes. We are talking about two different things - two different conversations. I never once said we were a running team. How could we be a running team with only six players?  What I was saying is that Jordan had some room to improve but his teammates sure did not help him.  Similar skill players who are poor to average shooters and who struggle to finish do not make for a good fast break run by anyone.

But to say that our defense did not lead to points on offense and to say that our defense did not lead to some fast break points with Jordan leading the way is just not accurate.

Not every time did we run with Jordan did it turn into a disaster. And yes, we did have some fast break points last year, including  the A10 tournament even though we were not a running team 

 And yes, last year was a disappointment for half the year  I believe Wiley had two games all year when he was healthy and on his game  Foreman was injured most of the year and a disappointment  Santos left and then so did Gordon.  Thir   And for most of the year, Isbell was not only bad but he made the guys around him worse  Throw in poor shooting and bad free-throws and you have a disappointing team and season  But once the cancer left the team, our shooting guard started to make his shots and we gained some confidence, our team took off and finished the year strong  

 

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11 hours ago, Pistol said:

To put that in perspective:

  • Jimerson shot .460 from 3 in his last AAU season with Boo Williams (Nike EYBL). He was 40-87 from the field.
  • The highest 3-point percentage registered by a SLU freshman with at least 50 attempts was .430 by Marcus Bartley (37-86).
  • The most 3-pointers made in a season by a SLU freshman was 58 by Kevin Lisch. He was 58-140, or .414.
  • Those are both excellent marks by freshmen.
  • The most 3-pointers made in a season was 103 by Erwin Claggett, the only guy to make 100 or more in a season as a Billiken. It took him 246 attempts (.418).
  • The highest 3-point percentage ever registered by a SLU player was .500, when Roland Gray made 56-112 in 1988-1989.
  • These are also both excellent shooting seasons.
  • Claggett is the all-time leader in 3-point field goals made, with 295. His career percentage was .412, which is fourth all-time. Lisch is right behind him with 259 makes and .395 (8th).
  • Gray is the all-time leader in 3-point percentage, at .457 (105-230). The second-place mark is all the way down at .420 (H Waldman). SLU has only had 6 players with a career mark of .400 or better.

Basically, Roy, you're saying that Jimerson will break the SLU single season 3FG% record his freshman season if you're talking about a season record, and if you're talking about his career, he'd be by far the best shooter in SLU history. Keep in mind that the line has moved back twice - once this offseason - since most of the marks listed above.

I think he's the best shooter we've ever had coming in and could go down as the best shooter in SLU history if he stays there and stays healthy. .500 is a crazy goal, though.

Just a few more perspective notes.....only 1 player shot above 50% from 3 last year (with  at least 25 3P FGM)...Marcus Hammond ...Niagara 52.2%...there were 5 in the 49% range. . To be in the top 100 you had to shoot at least 42.9%. There were only 2 A-10 players that made the top 100...Laurent...UMass...46.7%....Hartwell II....GM...44.6%...The only local player to make the top 100 was Mark Smith at 45.6%.

To be an A+ shooter on my list you have to shoot at least 41%.

And finally, based on the new longer  NCAA 3P shooting range for 2019....these numbers should come down.

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8 hours ago, The Wiz said:

Just a few more perspective notes.....only 1 player shot above 50% from 3 last year (with  at least 25 3P FGM)...Marcus Hammond ...Niagara 52.2%...there were 5 in the 49% range. . To be in the top 100 you had to shoot at least 42.9%. There were only 2 A-10 players that made the top 100...Laurent...UMass...46.7%....Hartwell II....GM...44.6%...The only local player to make the top 100 was Mark Smith at 45.6%.

To be an A+ shooter on my list you have to shoot at least 41%.

And finally, based on the new longer  NCAA 3P shooting range for 2019....these numbers should come down.

I’m with @billiken_roy. Gibson is going over 50%

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17 hours ago, Taj79 said:

This was never a running team and your point totals ..... 71, 64 and 67 .... bear that out. To me, a running/uptempo team would score about 80 ppg ..... namely at about two points per minute. That's how, unscientifically, I'd call it.  The lunatic teams .... the Running Rebels in their heyday, Loyola Marymount under Westphal, Havoc at VCU .... those guys posted 100 ppg which is off the charts.  Our defense allowed us to win but it did not translate into offense by any stretch of the imagination.  Sure, one or two buckets but nothing sustained.  

This isn't necessarily relevant to the discussion you are a having with Clock as your point my still be valid.  However, I want to point out that higher PPG doesn't necessarily mean that you play faster (tempo).  PPG is a function of both tempo and offensive efficiency.

Example:

Per Kempom Savannah State played the 3rd fastest tempo in the nation at about 74.9 possessions per 40 mins.  However, they weren't very efficient, so they were 83rd in the nation in scoring offense at 76ppg.

Opposite end of the spectrum, Virginia played at the slowest temp in the nation (353th) 59.4 possessions per 40 mins.  They still scored 71.4 ppg (209th) because they were incredibly efficient on offense.

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On 10/1/2019 at 9:00 AM, billiken_roy said:

i am the biggest lisch fan in the world, but i am here to tell you  kevin lisch never shot 50% from the 3 point line.   jimmmerson is going to shoot 50%+.

HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE

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On 10/1/2019 at 10:39 AM, billiken_roy said:

50%.   sticking with it.   

HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE.

told my wife he air balled his first ever shot.  She said "oh no, oh well, I guess."

"Then he hit 5 of his next 6.  He real."

"Niiiiiiiiiiice."

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