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Fall 2017 allegations against unnamed players (aka Situation 2)


DoctorB

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5 minutes ago, 615Billiken said:

There's a silver lining to all of this. My expectation for the season was that we would be better than at the end of last season, but this wouldn't be our NCAA tournament year. I was expecting to finish between 4th and 6th place in the A10. 

It appears that we are looking to end in that range. In this sense, the 'suspension' or whatever have not tumbled what I expected from the team this year. Additionally, because we are short, I assume French, Goodwin, and Johnson are getting more minutes than they would have with a full squad. This means that they have more reps and time to develop on the court. Next year, our squad was looking to be even better talent wise, and now we will have even more developed sophomores.

Are we? Still don't have anyone who can consistently make a jump shot.

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46 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

https://twitter.com/studurando/status/935526154500497408

 

2a4dcc97ada59ba93194083f41de2074_bigger.stu durando @studurando
FollowingFollowing @studurando
Travis Ford on whether he expects a decision soon on Title IX investigation: "I have no idea." And then, "I can't spend a lot of times on things I don't have any control over."

that could of been said 60 days ago and I will not be amazed if it can be said 60 days from now.

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2 minutes ago, 615Billiken said:

There's a silver lining to all of this. My expectation for the season was that we would be better than at the end of last season, but this wouldn't be our NCAA tournament year. I was expecting to finish between 4th and 6th place in the A10. 

It appears that we are looking to end in that range. In this sense, the 'suspension' or whatever have not tumbled what I expected from the team this year. Additionally, because we are short, I assume French, Goodwin, and Johnson are getting more minutes than they would have with a full squad. This means that they have more reps and time to develop on the court. Next year, our squad was looking to be even better talent wise, and now we will have even more developed sophomores.

I don't really buy this all that much.  The main player getting extra minutes because of the "situation" players sitting is Hines.  He won't be a part of the team next year so his development doesn't matter.  French is a forward and the guys sitting are guards.  French's minutes are not impacted by the situation in a material way.  He is likely getting more PT with Welmer hurt.  I guess you could say Goodwin is getting more minutes and maybe Johnson (who a G/F), but I don't know if the 2 guys being back would impact them much.  In Goodwin's case a small reduction in minutes might actually benefit him.  He is a high energy player and was cramping at the end of the VT game.

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Edit: I don't actually know if this means anything.  I would be nice if this reporter followed up with context.  I'm wondering if it is normal for police to "investigate" such an incident for 2+ months or if they even comment on something like this when no one has actually been arrested.  I mean I'm not sure what there is to investigate.  They know the alleged victims and perpetrators.  They've likely already interviewed everyone involved.  They've watched / dissected the reported video (if it is as speculated).  Any physical evidence would've been collected / documented at the time the allegations took place.   What else is there?

Edited by RUBillsFan
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1 hour ago, Littlebill said:

Banning all fraternities? LOL. What a hot take.

and the plural of university is universities. You skip that day of third grade?

It is an example.  You figure out what an example is yet?

You miss the point of the statement.  Universities could ban fraternities, but they don’t.  They have covered their liabilities with insurance.  To the extent they need to worry about lawsuits, it is how those lawsuits affect public opinion and the University’s funding avenues.  Therefore, they don’t need to be overly cautious with sexual assault.  Do you understand this one now?

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8 minutes ago, RUBillsFan said:

 

Given this news, the guys won’t be playing the rest of the calendar year, at a minimum.  I suppose the ongoing criminal investigation could be into a potentially false criminal allegation, but I seriously doubt it.  

Again, if the guys did something wrong, they should be punished.  No ifs, ands or buts.  

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6 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

 

Given this news, the guys won’t be playing the rest of the calendar year, at a minimum.  I suppose the ongoing criminal investigation could be into a potentially false criminal allegation, but I seriously doubt it.  

Again, if the guys did something wrong, they should be punished.  No ifs, ands or buts.  

If they are pursuing an investigation into the crime of filming sexual acts without consent then that could take time to gather the evidence.  For instance they would need to draft a search warrant for a phone and run a forensic search of the files then review the results or send it to Snap Chat and ask for the footage.  It could take a while for Snap Chat to respond with digital footage then they have to review it and then conduct follow up interviews.

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i have no NCAA knowledge specifically dealing with how this all works and definitely no credible SLU source, but i tend to believe if it isnt over in the next week to ten days that is a horrible sign.   i am am about done with this.   i would say definitive end and our players back on the floor by Tuesday December 12th or we cut ties and move on.  Three new scholarships for the summer to place.  

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Again, criminal cases are rarely "closed", but i'm fairly certain the STLPD will not "close" its investigation until the Title 9  investigation is wrapped up. 

They are two separate investigations and STLPD is likely keeping its investigation open in the event the Title 9 investigation reveals something the initial criminal investigation did not. 

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2 hours ago, slufan13 said:

I think this team is already showing signs of fatigue. 

Definitely. 

A veteran team can get by with 8 guys but we are relying on 2 freshman getting acclimated to college ball and 2 guys who sat out all of last year and aren't in game shape.

Those 4 guys are probably extremely taxed. 

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37 minutes ago, moytoy12 said:

 

Given this news, the guys won’t be playing the rest of the calendar year, at a minimum.  I suppose the ongoing criminal investigation could be into a potentially false criminal allegation, but I seriously doubt it.  

Again, if the guys did something wrong, they should be punished.  No ifs, ands or buts.  

Don't read too far into that first line of her tweet. My guess is she added the word criminal herself and police never said anything like that.

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5 minutes ago, JohnnyJumpUp said:

Don't read too far into that first line of her tweet. My guess is she added the word criminal herself and police never said anything like that.

I don't have an effin clue whether she added the word criminal or not. But the police investigate crimes. That's what they do. Okay, I'll read that they're still just 'investigating'. This is not good news nor something that I think most of us were expecting to read.

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16 minutes ago, RiseAndGrind said:

Again, criminal cases are rarely "closed", but i'm fairly certain the STLPD will not "close" its investigation until the Title 9  investigation is wrapped up. 

They are two separate investigations and STLPD is likely keeping its investigation open in the event the Title 9 investigation reveals something the initial criminal investigation did not. 

This.

20 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

i have no NCAA knowledge specifically dealing with how this all works and definitely no credible SLU source, but i tend to believe if it isnt over in the next week to ten days that is a horrible sign.   i am am about done with this.   i would say definitive end and our players back on the floor by Tuesday December 12th or we cut ties and move on.  Three new scholarships for the summer to place.  

This assumes that SLU (or the organization/law firm conducting the investigation for them) isn’t intentionally dragging this along to come up with a way to look like they were thorough and save face by keeping players out of games. 

The fact that the players got to travel to nyc is significant to me. People making that decision know what facts are involved here, and they’re not going to risk the news story that they let some players travel to New York with the team during the investigation that led to them getting kicked out of school.

Personally, I’m not comfortable with tossing these guys out of school because the school is slow to make a decision. 

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Due to the university's pattern of mishandling previous incidents, it is impossible to ignore the racial component that may exist here. We do not want to be the program where the warning that we issue to our own incoming players is the same warning used to discourage potential African-American recruits; Be very careful (maybe avoid) when considering interracial sexual activity. Once is an anomaly, twice creates a stigma.

 

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From a long term standpoint, I'm concerned about the effect this investigation has on Coach Ford. He can't be happy at all with the administration right now. I never thought he would be our coach for the next 10 years but this is the type of foolishness that will drive a coach out the door as soon as he gets a viable offer.

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Just now, Scoop said:

I think we need to be prepared for the guys not to play until Jan 1.

Hell, I'd be thrilled to find out they were gonna play by Jan. 1. I'm a long-time Billiken fan so I'm prepared for them never to play here again.

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12 minutes ago, juniorbill76 said:

Is it possible the SLU Title IX investigation is finished or nearly so, but they're held up waiting for the police report to be finalized?

That's probably not the case. They can hand down their own ruling independent of what the police are doing. It's more likely that they're in the appeals process (see below).

3 hours ago, Pistol said:

Just a quick reset in case people are wondering why there's no announcement after the 60-day window. Per SLU's Sexual Misconduct Policy, and I'll save you the trouble and direct your attention to the bottom of page 33, either party may appeal the outcome. They have 3 days to appeal after the Notice of Outcome, and "except in extraordinary circumstances", the University has 10 days to resolve the appeal.

So assuming we're on day 64 of the process (Stu tweeted "day 63" yesterday) and all 13 days are taken for the appeals process, we're looking at Thursday, 12/7 for a possible resolution - possibly earlier, if they don't use the whole time frame, and possibly later, if there are some holiday-related delays factored in.

SLU plays SIUC on 12/6, so I would safely assume we won't see them back before then. Houston is 12/9, Murray State is 12/12, and Oregon State is 12/16. Murray State is regular season game 10, for a nice round number on a possible suspension.

 

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