Transfers - 2023

[billikenfan05]

1 hour ago, slufan13 said:

Rammer was more a passing comment but Frank's was the lead in on his segment on TV and was very serious. But I do somewhat agree it was just them going to the opposite extreme to shut down the original extreme.

Either way, Ford has a lot of work to do. Pryor would be fine but he's part of the answer and not the full answer. He's not a game changer even though the staff is pushing the idea that he is. And Ford has to change his offense to even make Pryor part of the answer.

Frank has zero clue what it takes dollar wise in the portal. Frank thinks a player like Love is asking less than 6 figures, like 60-70k.

I could care less what Ford does on offense, truthfully. We NEED a major overhaul when it comes to defensive ability.

To defend Ford a little here, I kind of appreciate his quip about not being able to compete with guys asking for 200/300k. I want gritty fuoks who get down and dirty on defense. Plus, if we don't have the money, we don't have the money and no point in wasting times with guys who are out of our price range. If we waste our time chasing, the best (defensive) and right players we can afford are gonna be off the board.

[gobillsgo]

5 minutes ago, Billiken Rich said:

Honestly, I've become an October Cardinals fan.....The Bills and the mostly pathetic Dallas Cowboys are where most of my sports attention is focused.  I couldn't tell you two things about Oli other than He should've avoided the press.......

Well we are definitely in agreement there

[billikenfan05]

6 minutes ago, Billiken Rich said:

Right now this year........

Why do you even respond to that dude? Let him play with himself.

[slufan13]

12 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

Frank has zero clue what it takes dollar wise in the portal. Frank thinks a player like Love is asking less than 6 figures, like 60-70k.

I could care less what Ford does on offense, truthfully. We NEED a major overhaul when it comes to defensive ability.

To defend Ford a little here, I kind of appreciate his quip about not being able to compete with guys asking for 200/300k. I want gritty fuoks who get down and dirty on defense. Plus, if we don't have the money, we don't have the money and no point in wasting times with guys who are out of our price range. If we waste our time chasing, the best (defensive) and right players we can afford are gonna be off the board.

Frank is Ford's puppet is all I was trying to say really. 

I agree defense needs to be the key. Which is why a guy like Pryor doesn't excite me. A guy with his body type and athleticism can block shots in JUCO but will likely really struggle in D1. He did at Boise and its just hard to believe one year in JUCO changed him completely. He does excite me on the offensive end if he's used properly but I think we all agree defense needs be the priority. 

[TheA_Bomb]

Lots of portal action to be had still. Some guys are still declaring and all the dominoes are still tumbling.  Good start with the big guard from Zero U.

As for stretch 4s that's become a board boogie man.  Haven't seen CTF run a system that employs stretch 4s.  Stretch 4s by their nature are usually not very good rebounders.  The value is that they pull the opposing 4 away from the basket to open up driving lanes for slashing guards and more opportunities for your C or oversized Gs to rebound.

Don't foresee SLU getting 1 or needing 1 for our "system".  Need grown azz men that can rebound and defend.

[brianstl]

4 hours ago, Scoop said:

There is no “all the talk” when it was just mentioned from Frank and Rammer on a segment of his show. I listened to it. It was more a figure of speech and not to be taken literally. As for the Ford quote, if you mbm can’t read between the lines, he’s talking about Caleb Love. Kid wanted big $. We are not going to pay that and I’m fine with that as a fan.

My problem with statements like that from coaches is the “we want guys that want to be here part”.  Does anyone really believe Ford or any other coach would be here if someone was willing to pay him double what they are getting here? They wouldn’t and the same holds true for players now.  No need to act like players are somehow the bad guys here now that they are working the system just like coaches have for decades.

[billiken_roy]

look i hate the NiL b.s. as much as anyone.  but it is what it is.   and the toothpaste is out of the tube now.   there is no going back.   how in the hell do you think a kid from the ghetto is not going to be all about the money first and foremost?

coming out with the pat answer when asked about NiL money "we want guys that want to be here" might be the most head in the sand thing i have ever heard.  talk about destined to fail.   imo if we dont get in on this asap.  slu basketball arrow is going to be pointed down.  

Again, i dont like it, but it's now become part of the game and you dam well better embrace it or be left behind.  seriously, imo, we are headed towards D3 if we dont.

[Bills By 40]

On 4/6/2023 at 10:56 PM, thetorch said:

Carteare Gordon - Psychopath

Martin Linssen - Backup with major flaws

(lol agreed about CG)

I don't care about a single stat, if you watched us play you know Martin Linssen was the best big we've had, short of French, in a very long time. I truly believe he alone would've been the difference we needed to make the tournament this year. 

The second half of that statement may be an unquantifiable hot take but the first half is far from it. 

[cheeseman]

The problem with some thinking the big donors who were trying to get Ford replaced should just take the money and put it in for the NILs are simply missing the point.  The donors have no interest in giving money to Ford or any coach they don't think is getting the job done.  Why throw more money after bad?  I am not sure how things will turn out this off season or next season but I believe that if Ford does not deliver the calls will be not be stopped.  I just hope the big donors don't drift away.

[dlarry]

39 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

look i hate the NiL b.s. as much as anyone.  but it is what it is.   and the toothpaste is out of the tube now.   there is no going back.   how in the hell do you think a kid from the ghetto is not going to be all about the money first and foremost?

coming out with the pat answer when asked about NiL money "we want guys that want to be here" might be the most head in the sand thing i have ever heard.  talk about destined to fail.   imo if we dont get in on this asap.  slu basketball arrow is going to be pointed down.  

Again, i dont like it, but it's now become part of the game and you dam well better embrace it or be left behind.  seriously, imo, we are headed towards D3 if we dont.

I think 95% of kids will be all about the money.

I know if I was an 18 year old blue chip prospect I’d be following the money. 
 

The big money kids aren’t worried about a degree or how awesome the business school is because they are planning on going pro anyway. 
 

The really really big money kids don’t even care about location and probably not the coach or teammates either. They are only going to be there a year or two anyway. So they can deal with a lot of nonsense for 6 months when they are getting paid half a million bucks. 

[wgstl]

16 minutes ago, Bills By 40 said:

(lol agreed about CG)

I don't care about a single stat, if you watched us play you know Martin Linssen was the best big we've had, short of French, in a very long time. I truly believe he alone would've been the difference we needed to make the tournament this year. 

The second half of that statement may be an unquantifiable hot take but the first half is far from it. 

Linssen catches more heat about his defense than he should. IIRC his D-eff was 2nd on the team, and his offense was good enough to offset most defensive issues. 

[billiken_roy]

imo both okoro and linssen were nothing spectacular.   okoro had better highlights but he also had more low lights.   linssen was more consistent but he had physical limitations compared to okoro ability.  

the point is, why are we even discussing mediocre inside players that are now gone from the billikens?   not worth the time.  

[Brighton]

2 hours ago, Billiken Rich said:

Honestly, I've become an October Cardinals fan

With that rotation ? Good Luck.

[billikenfan05]

2 hours ago, slufan13 said:

He did at Boise and its just hard to believe one year in JUCO changed him completely. He does excite me on the offensive end if he's used properly but I think we all agree defense needs be the priority. 

He wasn't even playing the same position at Boise, when he was playing at all. I have a hard time taking anything away from his numbers there. I actually texted @Pistol I hate everything about this kid, then I looked into the position switch and some video from Florida. I've done a complete 180. I think this guy can bring a lot of what Linssen did.

[billikenfan05]

42 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

imo both okoro and linssen were nothing spectacular.   okoro had better highlights but he also had more low lights.   linssen was more consistent but he had physical limitations compared to okoro ability.  

the point is, why are we even discussing mediocre inside players that are now gone from the billikens?   not worth the time.  

Admittedly I have been critical of Okoro the same way you are in this post. But I believe he sits in some rarified air among really good Billikens in the record books. This was pointed out to me this season but I need to go back and look though. I think he's kinda like Remekun, in that way.

[wgstl]

5 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

He wasn't even playing the same position at Boise, when he was playing at all. I have a hard time taking anything away from his numbers there. I actually texted @Pistol I hate everything about this kid, then I looked into the position switch and some video from Florida. I've done a complete 180. I think this guy can bring a lot of what Linssen did.

perhaps. His size(weight) still worries me a lot. If we get him, I think there will be a strong emphasis on adding as much weight as possible.  

 

Im not against getting him, but if we have any chance, I'd rather get Mohamed Diarra.  Very similar player.

[Soderball]

55 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

imo both okoro and linssen were nothing spectacular.   okoro had better highlights but he also had more low lights.   linssen was more consistent but he had physical limitations compared to okoro ability.  

the point is, why are we even discussing mediocre inside players that are now gone from the billikens?   not worth the time.  

because we didn't make the tournament.

 

For the record, Linssen was much better than Forrester and we probably pick up a couple games this year that we should have won if we had him.(Auburn.)

[TheChosenOne]

4 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

He wasn't even playing the same position at Boise, when he was playing at all. I have a hard time taking anything away from his numbers there. I actually texted @Pistol I hate everything about this kid, then I looked into the position switch and some video from Florida. I've done a complete 180. I think this guy can bring a lot of what Linssen did.

I think that might be part of 13s point/question. The position switch folks are posting about was at the JUCO level, is that fools gold or is he actually a different player than he was at Boise State? The dude is four years out of college, so was that 4th year out at the JUCO level the switch being flipped? That would be the question I have in addition to watching some of the JUCO tournament and thinking the level of play is trash. I know you can get quality players from it, but based on what I saw evaluating that level based on game film has to be rather difficult. It looked like AAU/open gym up and down play absent engrained systems on either end of the court. Obviously the coaches have watched far more of the kid than I have, so I will certainly trust them if they offer the kid. However, I do think there are certainly reasons to question any player from that level especially one who previously played at the major college level and was not productive.

[johnbj14]

I can’t believe the revisionist history with Marten right now. He was rock solid on offense and defense, only tailing off after a bad ankle injury that he dealt with the back half of his senior season. Give me a big man rotation of 3 Linssens and I’d be thrilled. 

[billiken_roy]

23 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

Admittedly I have been critical of Okoro the same way you are in this post. But I believe he sits in some rarified air among really good Billikens in the record books. This was pointed out to me this season but I need to go back and look though. I think he's kinda like Remekun, in that way.

rememkun besides being a reputed "good guy" isnt even in the okoro or linssen air talent and productionwise.    another guy not worthy of being in the discussion.  

[slufan13]

Pryor would be fine. If he's the priority big man for the off-season, I would consider the off-season a major failure. And I might be the biggest fan of Vice on this board. I think he's going to be really good from day 1. But Ford needs to make the tournament this season. You need more than Pryor and Vice in the frontcourt. Who knows about Zhang. I think it's more than fair to have concerns about Pryor. Why wasn't he playing as a 4man at Boise? Did the entire coaching staff miss that for 2 years? Did he refuse? Was he not good enough? JUCO years can do wonders for players but it's hard to assume he's the answer after 1 year of run and gun ball at a JUCO level. But my biggest concern is Ford has never shown a willingness to utilize a stretch 4 on offense and rarely even plays 2 bigs together. So if Pryor is the only big on the court, then I have a lot of concerns on both ends of the floor. I hope I'm wrong about him and I hope Ford changes his offense. Big changes have to happen this off-season and they have to find a diamond in the rough. Maybe Pryor is the guy.

 

I actually think we're going to miss Okoro a lot more than we expect

[billiken_roy]

14 minutes ago, Soderball said:

because we didn't make the tournament.

 

For the record, Linssen was much better than Forrester and we probably pick up a couple games this year that we should have won if we had him.(Auburn.)

i dont disagree with this, but being better than forrester doesnt make linssen any better either.   my good take on linssen is he was consistent and seemed to always play hard and would be in position as much as his athleticism allowed him to be.  if that deserves the immortal idolization he pretty much gets here,  i am speechless.   but using forrester doesnt enhance the argument he was a good player.   he was mediocre imo.

[Billiken Rich]

13 minutes ago, johnbj14 said:

I can’t believe the revisionist history with Marten right now. He was rock solid on offense and defense, only tailing off after a bad ankle injury that he dealt with the back half of his senior season. Give me a big man rotation of 3 Linssens and I’d be thrilled. 

Agreed and I'd take him in a heartbeat over Jake or anyone else we are likely to get this summer......

[Billiken Rich]

3 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

he was mediocre imo.

This might be true if we are in the Big East.  For the A10, and for SLU especially he was a good deal above average......

[Soderball]

8 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

i dont disagree with this, but being better than forrester doesnt make linssen any better either.   my good take on linssen is he was consistent and seemed to always play hard and would be in position as much as his athleticism allowed him to be.  if that deserves the immortal idolization he pretty much gets here,  i am speechless.   but using forrester doesnt enhance the argument he was a good player.   he was mediocre imo.

Roy, I agree with you, but...

 

the reality is we are a middling program in a Juan Bid League. We take what we can get at this point. Power 5 big guys will mop the floor with our bigs. The last time we competed in that arena was when we had Willie Reed, who had the potential to develop into a monstrous talent.

 

I know someone will come at me "but French and Goodwin" both fantastic players(especially goodwin) but not really traditional "5" big guys. French's height sometimes cost us, but the combo of him and goodwin allowed us to compete with the big boys on the boards sometimes.