Ford- Less with More (and the last great four year Billikens)

[billiken_roy]

39 minutes ago, wgstl said:

I'd like to see Pestys basketball knowledge. 

Most bosses who had bosses have a general idea on how the person should be performing that said field.  I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess Pestello doesn't have a great understanding of basketball Xs and Os.   Same with everyone else. 

doesnt matter for the context of the reply i made.   soder claimed ford has no boss.   but i beg to differ.  the organization of Saint Louis University, which ford is an employee of, definitely gives ford superiors he reports.  the belief that he reports to no one is ridiculous.   now whether they attempt to actually manage him is a different story, but he definitely has people above him that if pushed can have him out the door in a second.  

[The Valley Sucks]

So if we finish 1-2 were probably going to finish 5th. Finishing behind Fordham and the Dukes should be grounds for firing. 

[slufan13]

I think Yuri is getting a lot of undue criticism for his play this season because he entered the transfer portal and then clearly got some sort of big deal to come back.

I do think some of Yuri's stats are empty meaning he has big numbers that don't really help us win. But the kid is a great all time point guard, not just at SLU but in the entire conference and really the country. He forces things too much in crunch time but Ford should take heat for that too. We are a mediocre team this season. We'd be bad if not for Yuri. 

We can be better next year without Yuri if we have an offense that isn't solely reliant on one player creating for others. Ford is going to have to change his offense and his personnel to make that happen

[David King]

22 hours ago, gobillsgo said:

To further accentuate how far this program has fallen from our potential… ten years ago today we were putting the hurt on a ranked Butler team at Hinkle Fieldhouse, our second of three wins against them that year. 
 

@RiseOfTheBillikens , myself, and I’m sure others here were in attendance for one of the greatest SLU basketball moments of my life. 
 

we shouldn’t be accepting our current level of mediocrity. 

That was a great game! It defined the Majerus era for me.

[cgeldmacher]

20 hours ago, RiseOfTheBillikens said:

Criminal. The one has said repeatedly he was injured.

Not sure why everyones been dumping on Yuri recently. Not a great look when some in the fanbase can't support the biggest local product for the team. Especially when hes leading the entire country in assists lol. It honestly be comical if it wasn't so sad. Hopefully as time passes people can take a step back and see it from a more logical perspective.

I liked this post and wanted to bump it.  Great post.

[ACE]

2 hours ago, slufan13 said:

I think Yuri is getting a lot of undue criticism for his play this season because he entered the transfer portal and then clearly got some sort of big deal to come back.

I do think some of Yuri's stats are empty meaning he has big numbers that don't really help us win. But the kid is a great all time point guard, not just at SLU but in the entire conference and really the country. He forces things too much in crunch time but Ford should take heat for that too. We are a mediocre team this season. We'd be bad if not for Yuri. 

We can be better next year without Yuri if we have an offense that isn't solely reliant on one player creating for others. Ford is going to have to change his offense and his personnel to make that happen

The fact that we are solely reliant on Yuri is not a Yuri problem, it goes back to roster construction and that's a Ford problem. I will reiterate my thoughts about the need for a secondary ballhandler/distributor. Too much responsibility for any one player the way the roster is constructed. RM understood the importance of having multiple versatile guards.

Also, dumping on Yuri for exploring the NIL is ridiculous. How many SLU players would have done the same thing IF given the opportunity playing in an era when NIL existed? Besides, the way I look at it, Yuri's little flirtation with the NIL turned out to be a good thing. It forced the decision makers in the program to wake up and get into the NIL game.

[slufan13]

15 minutes ago, ACE said:

The fact that we are solely reliant on Yuri is not a Yuri problem, it goes back to roster construction and that's a Ford problem. I will reiterate my thoughts about the need for a secondary ballhandler/distributor. Too much responsibility for any one player the way the roster is constructed. RM understood the importance of having multiple versatile guards.

Also, dumping on Yuri for exploring the NIL is ridiculous. How many SLU players would have done the same thing IF given the opportunity playing in an era when NIL existed? Besides, the way I look at it, Yuri's little flirtation with the NIL turned out to be a good thing. It forced the decision makers in the program to wake up and get into the NIL game.

Roster construction was the #1 complaint of Oklahoma St fans when Ford was fired. I agree with you but it's going to require a big change from Ford

As far as the NIL goes. It definitely got the ball rolling for SLU's NIL game. I don't necessarily fault Yuri but he definitely rubbed a lot of SLU fans the wrong way

[wgstl]

14 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

Roster construction was the #1 complaint of Oklahoma St fans when Ford was fired. I agree with you but it's going to require a big change from Ford

Im trying to figure out what is Fords ideal roster setup.  

[ARon]

2 hours ago, slufan13 said:

I think Yuri is getting a lot of undue criticism for his play this season because he entered the transfer portal and then clearly got some sort of big deal to come back.

I do think some of Yuri's stats are empty meaning he has big numbers that don't really help us win. But the kid is a great all time point guard, not just at SLU but in the entire conference and really the country. He forces things too much in crunch time but Ford should take heat for that too. We are a mediocre team this season. We'd be bad if not for Yuri. 

We can be better next year without Yuri if we have an offense that isn't solely reliant on one player creating for others. Ford is going to have to change his offense and his personnel to make that happen

Yuri is indeed one of the all time great Billiken passers.

 
But if they needed to win one game and you could put any Billiken PG back there.....I'm still going with Kwamain.

[Schasz]

2 hours ago, David King said:

That was a great game! It defined the Majerus era for me.

Majerus went all over to build a solid roster. He recruited bigs from Australia and New Zealand. If I remember correctly Jordair Jett was a star football player who had offers to play for P-5 teams. Conklin was from OR if I recall. Then he did something all good HC's do at a major school...he coached them up!!! Travis Ford doesn't have clue No. 1 how to do that! I'm sure there is someone out there who could put a roster of players together and coach them maybe not as good as HOF Rick Majerus, but it would not take much to coach a team better than Travis Ford!!!

[majerus mojo]

47 minutes ago, Schasz said:

Majerus went all over to build a solid roster. He recruited bigs from Australia and New Zealand. If I remember correctly Jordair Jett was a star football player who had offers to play for P-5 teams. Conklin was from OR if I recall. Then he did something all good HC's do at a major school...he coached them up!!! Travis Ford doesn't have clue No. 1 how to do that! I'm sure there is someone out there who could put a roster of players together and coach them maybe not as good as HOF Rick Majerus, but it would not take much to coach a team better than Travis Ford!!!

Thank you for sharing!!!! If our next coach doesn't have an assistant on staff with ties to Oceania I am out!!!! As far as football backgrounds, Jordan Goodwin and Brock Vice combined couldn't hold Jordair's jockstrap on the gridiron!!!! We need BETTER football players!!!! Oregon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TheA_Bomb]

The only "system" we had that was identifiable was "bully ball".  That's not a system.  With Majerus you had a motion offense with precision screens(6"!) and he wanted a stretch 4 to help open the lanes.  Soderberg ran the pack line defense that focused on taking away the easy interior buckets.  What do we have now?  It's not coherent in execution or apparent to me what it's supposed to be.  I think it's a normal motion offense, MTM D With some zone.  But poorly executed both because players aren't playing smart together and the lack of a cohesive roster of players with clear roles. 

[slufan13]

10 minutes ago, majerus mojo said:

Thank you for sharing!!!! If our next coach doesn't have an assistant on staff with ties to Oceania I am out!!!! As far as football backgrounds, Jordan Goodwin and Brock Vice combined couldn't hold Jordair's jockstrap on the gridiron!!!! We need BETTER football players!!!! Oregon!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As long as we keep recruiting, but not signing, Texas players and playing regular season games against NAIA schools in addition to signing more football players and pacific northwest guys. 

[stmdragons]

49 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

As long as we keep recruiting, but not signing, Texas players and playing regular season games against NAIA schools in addition to signing more football players and pacific northwest guys. 

Yeah, I keep hearing about how great of a recruiter Forte is but we’ve gotten absolutely nothing out of the Dallas area to this point. 

[cheeseman]

7 hours ago, wgstl said:

I'd like to see Pestys basketball knowledge. 

Most bosses who had bosses have a general idea on how the person should be performing that said field.  I'm gonna go out on a limb here and guess Pestello doesn't have a great understanding of basketball Xs and Os.   Same with everyone else. 

Pesty does not need to have that specific knowledge.  What he only needs to have is to pay attention to his lying eyes.  He knows things are not going as was expected.  All he has to do is tell Ford that this level of achievement is not acceptable and much more is expected.  Ford can either search for answers or call someone he trusts to bounce off ideas or whatever but it is up to Ford to right the ship.  All Pesty and May can do is set the tone and expectations.  Now we have no idea what or if anything is being said to Ford.

[WVBilliken]

45 minutes ago, stmdragons said:

Yeah, I keep hearing about how great of a recruiter Forte is but we’ve gotten absolutely nothing out of the Dallas area to this point. 

Dallas area?  For an East Coast centric league doubt there is much appeal for a Dallas area recruit to go to SLU.  Even SLU home games in St. Louis is 650 miles by car from Dallas; quite the drive for Mom and Dad.

[Matty Light]

12 minutes ago, WVBilliken said:

Dallas area?  For an East Coast centric league doubt there is much appeal for a Dallas area recruit to go to SLU.  Even SLU home games St. Louis is 650 miles by car from Dallas; quite the drive for Mom and Dad.

Cory Remuken did it for 4 years.

[cheeseman]

34 minutes ago, WVBilliken said:

Dallas area?  For an East Coast centric league doubt there is much appeal for a Dallas area recruit to go to SLU.  Even SLU home games in St. Louis is 650 miles by car from Dallas; quite the drive for Mom and Dad.

Your point is fair so then I ask why then did Ford get an assistant to recruit an area that is a bit of a long shot to attract recruits?  Another poor judgment exercise?

[WVBilliken]

7 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Your point is fair so then I ask why then did Ford get an assistant to recruit an area that is a bit of a long shot to attract recruits?  Another poor judgment exercise?

I have no idea where Coach Forte is recruiting.  He has spent time previously in Oklahoma, St. Louis (as a graduate assistant), and of course Texas where he played HS ball and grew up.  He's only been back at SLU for 7 or 8 months.  I'd give him some leeway.  Doubt he could have impacted the Fall recruiting class but perhaps he will impact the Spring Transfer Portal recruiting assuming Coach Ford stays ...... which is my assumption.  

[BilliesBy40]

35 minutes ago, WVBilliken said:

I have no idea where Coach Forte is recruiting.  He has spent time previously in Oklahoma, St. Louis (as a graduate assistant), and of course Texas where he played HS ball and grew up.  He's only been back at SLU for 7 or 8 months.  I'd give him some leeway.  Doubt he could have impacted the Fall recruiting class but perhaps he will impact the Spring Transfer Portal recruiting assuming Coach Ford stays ...... which is my assumption.  

Forte is recruiting Texas

[Soderball]

9 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

doesnt matter for the context of the reply i made.   soder claimed ford has no boss.   but i beg to differ.  the organization of Saint Louis University, which ford is an employee of, definitely gives ford superiors he reports.  the belief that he reports to no one is ridiculous.   now whether they attempt to actually manage him is a different story, but he definitely has people above him that if pushed can have him out the door in a second.  

They can push him out the door, but they cannot micromanage his operations. The coach is trusted to coach and lead the program. If he's inadequate, fire him. If he is adequate, leave him be. This idea that he will "change" after 20 years and millions upon millions of dollars is flatly absurd. This idea that the coach is going to be given training wheels by a school bureaucrat is nuts.

Roy this is the silliest take on anything you have. Fire him or leave him be. He's a grown man.

 

 

 

[Taj79]

There have been many instances in pro and college sports where 'ownership' has directed the coach to change his staff(s).  Whether that be an offensive coordinator, a play caller, a QB coach, an X's and O man, or whatever.  I don't believe for one minute it can't be done.

Much is made of Ford's mentor ---- his father, a renown high school coach in Kentucky.  I would thin Ford would confer with Dad above anyone else should he see the need for it.  I don't think that helps the current situation much.

Ford has shown who he is.  Someone posted that he did this same routine at Okie State.  He has continued to demonstrate the same philosophy here .... 2018 it was Bess as the hero with Goodwin in support.  2019 it moved on to Isabel in  Brooklyn as the lead.  In 2020 it was Goodwin.  In 2021, Perkins assumed the go to role down the stretch.  The last two years, it has been Collins with Jimerson as the gunner.  What is extremely maddening is that Collins is not the finisher a Jordair Jett was with the ball in his hands.  

All the pundits have Collins as a pure, pass-first point guard.  No argument here.  But it seems when crunch time hits, Collins looks to score and that is definitely not his strong suite.  Plus, Ford's offense pretty much requires him to do so.  The style of play does not play to our strong suites.

I long said we were short another point guard this year in terms of roster construction.  That was going to be Thatch, which I sincerely doubted.  Many told me it would be Thames or Hughes.  Didn't happen.  Given Ford's insistence that it would Collins and Collins only, made every potential backup point guard go elsewhere.  Can't blame them but to counter that and go with what we got, I would have thrown Hughes and/or Thames into the heat of the OOC schedule and get them some on-the-job training.  Ford did not do this.

[DOC]

45 minutes ago, Soderball said:

They can push him out the door, but they cannot micromanage his operations. The coach is trusted to coach and lead the program. If he's inadequate, fire him. If he is adequate, leave him be. This idea that he will "change" after 20 years and millions upon millions of dollars is flatly absurd. This idea that the coach is going to be given training wheels by a school bureaucrat is nuts.

Roy this is the silliest take on anything you have. Fire him or leave him be. He's a grown man.

 

 

 

What are you talking about? Coaches keep their jobs every year by changing how they operate. 

[willie]

3 hours ago, BilliesBy40 said:

Forte is recruiting Texas

I know there is a lot of players in Texas but I would be surprised that this is a winning strategy. Hope I am wrong. 

[Bay Area Billiken]

22 minutes ago, willie said:

I know there is a lot of players in Texas but I would be surprised that this is a winning strategy. Hope I am wrong. 

I think those resources would be better spent elsewhere.  On the other hand, #22 David Burns hailed from Dallas.