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10 hours ago, JMM28 said:

Get 50-100 people to commit to 2500-5000 a year. That gives you between 100k and 500k a year as a base number. Have some big fish that can pony up as some big fish players come along. Organize it as a 501c3 or 501c7 - might not be able to pull off c3 right away. 

This isn't rocket science and SLU is behind the curve if they don't have a group already doing this. 

If anyone is already planning it, DM me. 

 

6 hours ago, SLU_Nick said:

Somewhere there is a SLU decision maker who concluded that any amount of NLI fund donations is just less money for University donations.  I’d wager that’s the crux of the reason for no NLI movement from AD. 

Agreed. so this will have to be done without the schools help.

Time to get the legend and Jayson Tatum involved. 

 

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Football > basketball, but big NIL piece from the Athletic today: 

In early March, The Athletic reported that a five-star 2023 recruit signed an $8 million NIL deal with a school’s donor collective. While that remains by far the highest known deal to date, other top recruits are reaping the benefits of a rapidly soaring arms race.

The Athletic reviewed three recruits’ recently signed NIL contracts, each with a different school-specific collective. The Athletic agreed to preserve the anonymity of all parties in order to get a better sense of the current market rates for top recruits. A four-star receiver landed a deal that will pay him more than $1 million over the next four years in exchange for his exclusive NIL rights. A defensive lineman ranked among the top 10 at his position received a three-year deal worth $1 million. And a three-star defensive lineman signed for $500,000 over four years. The latter two are non-exclusive.

“(NIL) creates a situation where you can basically buy players,” Alabama coach Nick Saban recently told the Associated Press. “You can do it in recruiting. I mean, if that’s what we want college football to be, I don’t know.”

Corey Staniscia, who helped author the state of Florida’s NIL law last year and now works for Dreamfield Sports, agreed. “You have adults with a lot of money who just want to win championships and buy athletes,” he said.

All of the deals The Athletic reviewed stipulate that they are not an inducement to attend a specific school, but it’s no secret which collectives support which college teams. And given the Supreme Court’s 9-0 decision in last year’s NCAA vs. Alston antitrust case, experts consider the NCAA unlikely to take aggressive action limiting athletes’ compensation.

“This is the hierarchy,” said attorney Mike Caspino, who has represented dozens of recruits in their dealings with collectives and executed the contracts The Athletic reviewed. “Five-star quarterbacks: They’re getting $2 million a year. The next-most sought after players are D-linemen, edge rushers; they’re getting seven figures. The next is a stud offensive lineman with quick feet — they’re in the high six figures. Everyone else is a hodgepodge, but in the six-figure range.”

Many coaches and administrators are experiencing sticker shock over an above-table market that sprouted up seemingly overnight and is now having a profound effect on where certain recruiters are committing. Others have resigned themselves to NIL bidding wars becoming the new normal.

“I think it’s not going to be long until every signee at a Power 5 school is on some form of NIL — and that may be this coming year,” said Ole Miss head coach Lane Kiffin.

Many states’ NIL laws adopted last summer prohibit schools from directly brokering deals. That opened the door for third-party collectives — organizations that pool fan and booster donations in order to compensate a specific school’s athletes. Boosters at a small handful of programs — Texas A&M, Texas, Tennessee, Oregon and Miami chief among them — mobilized the quickest when the NCAA allowed NIL compensation for the first time last July. But they are far outnumbered by exasperated coaches and administrators who fear their programs getting left behind. Many have lost recruits simply because another school’s collective offered an NIL package it couldn’t match.

“We lost a kid (on signing day) over that. That hurt,” a Power 5 head coach told The Athletic. “Two hours before, the mom is telling me he’s coming here. And then she said, ‘Coach, how can we turn down $300,000?’ You can’t. Take it, I get it.”

In recent weeks, new collectives have been announced everywhere from Ohio State and Penn State to Kansas State and FIU.

“It’s a conversation that is absolutely being had, collective by collective, across the country right now. Do we need to go in this direction to compete?” said sports attorney Darren Heitner, who advises Florida’s Gator Collective. “A benchmark has been set, and if you’re a talented player, and if you’re willing to take the risk, then you probably think you’re worth that much or more.”

On April 8, offensive lineman Josh Conerly Jr., from Seattle, the last remaining unsigned five-star in the class of 2022, spurned presumed favorite USC, which does not have a collective, in favor of Oregon, which does. It’s called Division Street, and Ducks mega-booster Phil Knight is heavily involved.

“(Recruiting) doesn’t even resemble what we used to do before NIL,” USC coach Lincoln Riley told reporters the day after losing Conerly. “In every sense of the word, it’s different. The reality is, it’s made what’s gone on at certain places for a long time … it’s going to put it out in the open. So maybe (there are) some positives there.”

Elsewhere, Ohio State has long been considered the favorite for five-star 2023 receiver Carnell Tate from IMG Academy in Florida, but two weekends ago he visited Tennessee, and late last week, On3 revised its prediction for Tate to Tennessee. The co-president of Spyre Sports, a for-profit collective associated with Tennessee, told The Athletic in February, “We’re prepared to invest a substantial amount of resources into the 2023 recruiting class.” A co-founder of The Foundation, Ohio State’s recently announced non-profit NIL fund, recently said on a Bucknuts podcast, “We can’t make an official deal with a recruit.”

But not everybody’s jumping on board the collective movement. Many prominent football schools have explicitly warned their donors against getting involved in recruiting — which is still technically against the rules. USC does not have a collective. A Notre Dame version launched Monday but is being marketed as a charity endeavor. The co-founder of a Michigan NIL partner said of paying recruits: “Michigan’s not doing that.”

“I think there are some places that have weaponized NIL and are using it in recruiting,” said UCLA coach Chip Kelly. “That’s not going to happen here, so we don’t even discuss it.

Heitner fears some of the more brazen deals being made for recruits may lead to future repercussions for the players. “The athlete is the one with the risk,” he said. “Don’t put it past the NCAA to render an athlete ineligible after the fact.”

Caspino, the attorney that helped author dozens of these recruit-collective contracts, disagrees that they violate NCAA rules.

“What blows everybody away by my contracts is there is no mention of the school and there is no commitment that he has to go there and play football,” he said. “I welcome the NCAA looking at my contracts.”

Beyond the legality, there’s also the question of whether throwing seven-figure deals at unproven high school players or inexperienced portal transfers is a sensible investment. Saban called it an “unsustainable model.” Riley predicted an eventual “market correction.”

“You’re really guessing that this 18-year-old guy who has proven zero is worth a million dollars from somebody, somehow, however that money is getting there,” said the Power 5 head coach. “Like … what the are we talking about? Why even want to be associated with this? We’re ruining kids.”

The 2023 class could turn out to be a fascinating case study. Will the players who cashed in be less likely to transfer because they risk blowing up their deal — or perhaps more likely because they picked a school solely for financial reasons? If a lot of the top recruits become busts, will donors be less likely to pitch in going forward? Or will 2024 kids get even richer as more schools’ collectives become better funded?

“A lot of people tell me hey, don’t worry, this isn’t here to stay, these numbers you’re seeing out there, people can’t keep that up. I disagree,” said Kiffin. “(Schools) always find a way to keep up. They find money.”

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Will nil screw up mid major coach quality? Coaches like Ford, came to SLU with the belief that he could build a top 40 program. If this new system means mid majors can't build or sustain top 40 programs. Coaches will look for power 5 jobs, even the lower rungs. Revenues will drop for the mid major programs. Making coaches salaries that made sense in under previous rules, unsustainable under the new rules.

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36 minutes ago, Aquinas said:

Will nil screw up mid major coach quality? Coaches like Ford, came to SLU with the belief that he could build a top 40 program. If this new system means mid majors can't build or sustain top 40 programs. Coaches will look for power 5 jobs, even the lower rungs. Revenues will drop for the mid major programs. Making coaches salaries that made sense in under previous rules, unsustainable under the new rules.

this is a good topic.   i can see where it could be more sensible and profitable for a coach to be an assistant on a P5 program than coach a mid major that is doomed to be nothing but a feeder program thereforward.  

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51 minutes ago, Aquinas said:

Will nil screw up mid major coach quality? Coaches like Ford, came to SLU with the belief that he could build a top 40 program. If this new system means mid majors can't build or sustain top 40 programs. Coaches will look for power 5 jobs, even the lower rungs. Revenues will drop for the mid major programs. Making coaches salaries that made sense in under previous rules, unsustainable under the new rules.

Would you rather be the head coach of a farm team or an assistant in the majors?  Eventually the economics will reflect that reality.  Coach Ford is fortunate to already be under contract.  None of these mid major coaches will be offered 2 million plus the next time around.

 

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7 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Would you rather be the head coach of a farm team or an assistant in the majors?  Eventually the economics will reflect that reality.  Coach Ford is fortunate to already be under contract.  None of these mid major coaches will be offered 2 million plus the next time around.

 

You are one of the best posters on this board, so I am surprised by your doom-and-gloom response to the changing landscape. Do you think this is the first time a school like Tennessee (or its boosters) is paying players?

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4 minutes ago, BilliesBy40 said:

You are one of the best posters on this board, so I am surprised by your doom-and-gloom response to the changing landscape. Do you think this is the first time a school like Tennessee (or its boosters) is paying players?

Not to answer for 3-Star, but of course they were.  When that sort of thing was illegal, it was only for the top guys.  Now, it is going to be required for almost everyone.  That is the difference.

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3 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

Not to answer for 3-Star, but of course they were.  When that sort of thing was illegal, it was only for the top guys.  Now, it is going to be required for almost everyone.  That is the difference.

I’m not sure how you’re defining top guys. 10 years ago a potential all-conference PG in a major conference would’ve gotten major money under the table. 

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14 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

Not to answer for 3-Star, but of course they were.  When that sort of thing was illegal, it was only for the top guys.  Now, it is going to be required for almost everyone.  That is the difference.

Exactly.  Just a few years ago Sean Miller drew the ire of the NCAA because thousands of dollars changed hands for a player.  Under the new system, a million dollars+ changes hands for a player.  Wade would still be at LSU now under the new rules.

The reason that arms races get out of control is because competitive men don't know when to stop.  Enough already.

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This nil deal is little more than bribery for all but a handful of players who legitimately have a name that can generate revenue. Even in much more lucrative football, how many fans can name more than a handful of players on their favorite SEC football team? Future NFL stars can get something for autographs or to join a group for lunch or dinner. But who cares about a corner back, unless a coach tells a booster that they need one. 

With all of the entertainers in Nashville, does enybody really care what the Vols point guard endorses? 

The money is a joke. 

 

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4 hours ago, BilliesBy40 said:

I’m not sure how you’re defining top guys. 10 years ago a potential all-conference PG in a major conference would’ve gotten major money under the table. 

Totally disagree.  Ten years ago, a kid that was a pass first point guard from St. Mary's HS that went to SLU and who had some options but not many to go other places out of high school would not have gotten a big amount of money to transfer to Tennessee.  That, sadly, is a new development in the world of big time college sports.

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Booster:  Hey Coach, I brought you Joe Jones for $50K to be your starting point guard.  How come you have him on the bench?

Coach:  Joe practices at 50% speed.  He doesn't understand our offense.  He is all about his own stats.  Harry Hustle practices at 100%, knows what I want him to do, he's a team player, so I'm starting him.

Booster:  You are forgetting that I pay a hunk of your salary.  Play Joe Jones.  You are ruining my brand.

PA Announcer:  And starting at Point Guard for Good Ole U is Harry Hustle. 

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9 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

 

PA Announcer:  And starting at Point Guard for Good Ole U is Harry Hustle. 

except @ the Doc's place on Compton it will sound something like "And starting at Point Guard for Good Ole U is Harvey Hasskle"

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On 4/19/2022 at 4:50 PM, Aquinas said:

 But who cares about a corner back, unless a coach tells a booster that they need one. 

 

Lots of people care about corner backs.  One of the biggest NIL stars of college and pro football still endorsing products to this day, decades after playing is Neon Deion Sanders.   

He's like the biggest example ever,  but yes people  about corner backs.

Think about Brian Bosworth (LB) could he have made money in college on NIL?  Yeah. 

Just throwing out some old school names. 

If no one cared no one would pay.  Now maybe we care a little too much.   I'll admit I listen to podcasts discussing the 3 deep center or longsnapper and I'm not the only one. 

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9 hours ago, TheA_Bomb said:

Lots of people care about corner backs.  One of the biggest NIL stars of college and pro football still endorsing products to this day, decades after playing is Neon Deion Sanders.   

He's like the biggest example ever,  but yes people  about corner backs.

Think about Brian Bosworth (LB) could he have made money in college on NIL?  Yeah. 

Just throwing out some old school names. 

If no one cared no one would pay.  Now maybe we care a little too much.   I'll admit I listen to podcasts discussing the 3 deep center or longsnapper and I'm not the only one. 

Bosworth did quite well $$ at OU.  I read a story about him a while back.  He had a 'job' at the GM Corvette Assembly plant in OKCity.  He said he used to put loose nuts into the wheel wells of random corvettes so that the owners would have to figure out the mysterious rattle.

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This was raised in another topic, but seems better discussed here.  Is SLU positioned better than other A-10 schools for the new NIL driven recruiting world?

I think so.  Here is why?  SLU is the only nationally competitive program in St. Louis.  I know we have SIU-E and now Lindenwood, but I don't think those programs will compete with us for NIL dollars.  St. Louis is a top 25 city population wise with a ton of businesses, big and small, to help in the NIL effort.  There are a lot of alumni in town that own businesses that could help.  We also don't have an NBA team.  So, basketball fans that want a high level product in town only have SLU to back.

Let's compare to other schools.  VCU and Richmond have to compete with each other for limited dollars in a city of about 230,000.  Bonaventure is in Olean, enough said.  St. Joe and LaSalle are competing with each other and Villanova and Temple for Philadelphia dollars.  Mason and GW compete with Georgetown and other schools within a certain radius for attention in DC.  Duquesne has Pitt to contend with.  Rhode Island has Providence.  UMass is outside of Boston by about 90 minutes and has BC to compete with.  Fordam has St. John's and, to a lesser extent several of the smaller schools in the NYC area.  Davidson is in Charlotte has to compete with UNC Charlotte and, more likely, Duke and UNC.

The two schools possibly best positioned to do well for themselves for NIL dollars, in my opinion, are Dayton and Loyola.  Dayton has an avid fan base and is the only game in town, although the population in Dayton is only about 150,000.  I just think that their fan base will come up with something for them on a civic pride basis.  Loyola competes with DePaul and Northwestern in Chicago, but Chicago is so big and has so much money that I think they may do well for NIL money.  This is especially true when you consider that Loyola has been Chicago's most successful program over the past 10 years.  Also, Chicago is so spread out geographically, that Loyola may still get local consideration from businesses that just aren't close enough to Northwestern.

With regard to the NBA side of the discussion, Chicago, Philadelphia, DC, New York,  Boston, and Charlotte all of NBA teams, where St. Louis does not.

I know that the greater concern is big conference teams dominating conferences like the A-10 as far as accumulating NIL money to distribute.  I'm just saying that we might be the best positioned team in the A-10.

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I wouldn't dismiss Lindenwood. Of the three D1 schools in the region, they have football and will use it to their advantage. St. Charles is growing every year. Not to mention they have the family arena nearby that is Chaifetz Arena's equal.

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7 minutes ago, Bonner89 said:

I wouldn't dismiss Lindenwood. Of the three D1 schools in the region, they have football and will use it to their advantage. St. Charles is growing every year. Not to mention they have the family arena nearby that is Chaifetz Arena's equal.

On one hand, I think you have a valid point that SLU absolutely should not sleep on Lindenwood competing with them for local $ as a D1 program.  They have a number of built in advantages over SLU.

On the other hand, calling The Family Arena "Chaifetz Arena's" equal is an absolutely hilariously absurd take.  Have you been to both?  The capacity for basketball is similar, but that's about the only thing they are equal in.  Chaifetz is better in just about every other way.  Not to mention SLU owns Chaifetz and it is on campus whereas The Family Arena is owned by St Charles County and is a few miles from campus.  You'd think being close, but not on campus wouldn't matter much, but it pretty clearly did for SLU at Kiel/Saavis.

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6 minutes ago, Lord Elrond said:

Lindenwood doesn’t play at the Family Arena, they play on campus, capacity of their arena is about 3000 or so, smaller than SIUE’s 

That may change with the move to D1.

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