Recruiting - 2023

[Lord Elrond]

1 hour ago, rgbilliken said:

05 didn't say Fred got free pickles; he said in a deal he (05) brokered, the pay was gift cards. Completely different situation

Lots of deals will be paid in free product. Lots will be paid in cash. We don't know the terms of Fred's deal but you could probably DM Two Men and a Garden since for some reason you are so interested in this topic. 

Re the bold part of your post... How does any company gage whether an advertising campaign is effective? Look at the time the ad was run and sales before and after... You are making this way more complicated than it needs to be 

Money, gift cards, or free product, it’s all taxable income. For free product, it would be a fair market valuation of the product.  Our favorite uncle, Uncle Sam, will want his cut.

[Old guy]

Oh Lord, who knows how many of these kids will declare this income according to regulations when the time comes to file.

[Taj79]

I understood f05’s comment —— but thanks for clarifying all the same.

My point remains the same —— NIL is making money off your name, image and/or likeness.  Getting free pickles, free Cane chicken, coupons at Long Horn, even a free SAAB is NOT making money in any way.  Making money is having cash in the pocket and spending it wherever one likes.  I remain curious as to who our big name donors are, how much cash they are dishing out and which players are cashing in on their name, image and likeness.

Just as I can’t tell you the uptick in sales TMAG got off Fred’s deal, f05 can’t make a blanket statement that TMAG now has repeat customers from it because a few MBMs went out and bought the stuff.  Once.  Maybe twice.  Maybe they will.  Who knows. 
 

No offense intended to TMAG but if our program is fighting back with pickle and salsa deals one-in-one with $200k cash deals, who do you think will eventually win?

I am happy for Fred, Yuri, Gibby if the deals are being done.  I don’t need to complicate this but until the sun shines completely under this NIL rock, the questions need to be asked.

[rgbilliken]

9 hours ago, Lord Elrond said:

Money, gift cards, or free product, it’s all taxable income. For free product, it would be a fair market valuation of the product.  Our favorite uncle, Uncle Sam, will want his cut.

I get this and am not saying otherwise - just trying to get Taj to understand not all of the small NIL deals are free product. Seems like he understands and is just leaving it out to make a point. 

[JMM28]

10 hours ago, Taj79 said:

I am happy for Fred, Yuri, Gibby if the deals are being done.  I don’t need to complicate this but until the sun shines completely under this NIL rock, the questions need to be asked.

Post your tax returns? 

 

[Taj79]

I think you are right there rg ——- my point is that NIL deals should involve cash and provide monetary benefit to the player in trade for use of his or her image, name or likeness.  Players getting free food is cheap to me.  Players getting a free car seems illegal to me.  Over in the Daniel Rivera thread, willie speculates about possible NIL benefits to Rivera being better than JUCO.  Maybe.  Maybe not.  But what are they?

I come from the era where SLU was too cheap to build facilities.  Too cheap to hire decent coaches.  Too cheap to hire ADs.  Too cheap to buy kids ice cream cones.  All of a sudden, alma mater ewe is changing its spots?  Very hard to believe.  Plus, I’d like to see where Fred’s NIL is actually used with TMAG.  I suspect it is but an out-of-Townes like me can’t see that kind of stuff w/o direct examples.  

[brianstl]

This article is a few months old, but it covers the bases pretty well when it comes to why we probably won't see any effective move by the NCAA to limit or control NIL.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-ncaa-doesnt-know-how-to-stop-boosters-from-playing-the-nil-game/

[RUBillsFan]

50 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

I think you are right there rg ——- my point is that NIL deals should involve cash and provide monetary benefit to the player in trade for use of his or her image, name or likeness.  Players getting free food is cheap to me.  Players getting a free car seems illegal to me.  Over in the Daniel Rivera thread, willie speculates about possible NIL benefits to Rivera being better than JUCO.  Maybe.  Maybe not.  But what are they?

I come from the era where SLU was too cheap to build facilities.  Too cheap to hire decent coaches.  Too cheap to hire ADs.  Too cheap to buy kids ice cream cones.  All of a sudden, alma mater ewe is changing its spots?  Very hard to believe.  Plus, I’d like to see where Fred’s NIL is actually used with TMAG.  I suspect it is but an out-of-Townes like me can’t see that kind of stuff w/o direct examples.  

Why are you asking for / expecting to get details of contracts between private individuals and a private businesses?  Neither party is required to disclose those details.

[Lord Elrond]

So how much of this NIL money was always there, but just kept quiet?

[slufanskip]

7 minutes ago, Lord Elrond said:

So how much of this NIL money was always there, but just kept quiet?

Kansas, UNC, KY, Duke, etc... All of it

[BilliesBy40]

15 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

Kansas, UNC, KY, Duke, etc... All of it

This is why I think people are looking at NIL through the wrong lens when they say non-power schools won't be able to keep up with power conferences. Most of the big-time schools were already paying players. 

[Box and Won]

Not to get all courtside, but don't we already have an NIL thread for this stuff?

[slufanskip]

1 hour ago, BilliesBy40 said:

This is why I think people are looking at NIL through the wrong lens when they say non-power schools won't be able to keep up with power conferences. Most of the big-time schools were already paying players. 

But the idea that we can financially compete in a basically free agent system for players with the likes of UK, KS, MI, UT, etc ... is crazy. Maybe we win one because he's a high, high priority for us and just medium for a big school, but lets not kid ourselves but if UK really wants the same guy we want. They win. 

Now, I get it's always been that way but we're bidding against every school willing to pay and all the p5 schools can outbid us on a consistent basis. Lets say we do pony up 200k for a player, can we afford to do that for everyone or do we just get 1 player of that caliber? 

[brianstl]

1 hour ago, slufanskip said:

But the idea that we can financially compete in a basically free agent system for players with the likes of UK, KS, MI, UT, etc ... is crazy. Maybe we win one because he's a high, high priority for us and just medium for a big school, but lets not kid ourselves but if UK really wants the same guy we want. They win. 

Now, I get it's always been that way but we're bidding against every school willing to pay and all the p5 schools can outbid us on a consistent basis. Lets say we do pony up 200k for a player, can we afford to do that for everyone or do we just get 1 player of that caliber? 

We would lose out to a UK and a KU every time in that situation, but we already do that now.  UK and KU are among the few places where the basketball programs are viewed with anywhere near the importance of the football program.  Where it can allow us to have an advantage is against the vast majority of power conference athletic programs where football is always going to be the number one and honestly the number two priority for using NIL money.  You got schools where more NIL money is going to walk on football players than to anyone on their basketball team right now.

[Old guy]

7 hours ago, slufanskip said:

But the idea that we can financially compete in a basically free agent system for players with the likes of UK, KS, MI, UT, etc ... is crazy. Maybe we win one because he's a high, high priority for us and just medium for a big school, but lets not kid ourselves but if UK really wants the same guy we want. They win. 

Now, I get it's always been that way but we're bidding against every school willing to pay and all the p5 schools can outbid us on a consistent basis. Lets say we do pony up 200k for a player, can we afford to do that for everyone or do we just get 1 player of that caliber? 

Agree we have to learn to live with reality.

[SLURadioBoy]

 

[Taj79]

rg --- I didn't ask TMAG to reveal their private business practices.  I guess I could but the answer would be 'go pound sand old man.'  I have nothing against our guys getting whatever they can, but let's not deceive ourselves.  I think skip discussed what that deception would be.  The Instagram follower program as outlined by f05 a few pages back was greatly appreciated and makes sense.  So does the parallel Longhorn Steakhouse story.  I don't discount Billies comment either ---- the FBI investigation, Pitino at Louisville, Eddie Sutton and company at Kentucky, hiring dads as coaches because their sons are studs like Manning and Porter.  Kids getting paid for summer jobs they don;t do.  The list is endless.  And, as others have stated, the IRS lurks.

I think NIL has good intentions.  I don't care how much Josh Oduro got for his car commercial just as I don;t care how much Fred got (although I hope it was more than product).  Yuri and TJ making money off clothing lines is fine.  So are camps and autograph sessions.  I think giving Yuri or the KState-kid-to-Miami hundreds of thousands of dollars just to play college basketball is just not right and circumvents the intent because as I think Pistol said "it's the WIld, Wild West" out there right now with folks making up rules as they see fit.

But when a respected poster like willie says we got Rivera due to NIL dollars, well, I am curious as what that is.  If it is.  I'll stop for now but if you want to continue, PM me and I won't bore the rest of Billikens.com. 

Back to the original question you posed, no, I don't need to know details, but I for one would like to know who is propping our guys up just the same.

 

[rgbilliken]

1 hour ago, Taj79 said:

rg --- I didn't ask TMAG to reveal their private business practices.  I guess I could but the answer would be 'go pound sand old man.'  I have nothing against our guys getting whatever they can, but let's not deceive ourselves.  I think skip discussed what that deception would be.  The Instagram follower program as outlined by f05 a few pages back was greatly appreciated and makes sense.  So does the parallel Longhorn Steakhouse story.  I don't discount Billies comment either ---- the FBI investigation, Pitino at Louisville, Eddie Sutton and company at Kentucky, hiring dads as coaches because their sons are studs like Manning and Porter.  Kids getting paid for summer jobs they don;t do.  The list is endless.  And, as others have stated, the IRS lurks.

I think NIL has good intentions.  I don't care how much Josh Oduro got for his car commercial just as I don;t care how much Fred got (although I hope it was more than product).  Yuri and TJ making money off clothing lines is fine.  So are camps and autograph sessions.  I think giving Yuri or the KState-kid-to-Miami hundreds of thousands of dollars just to play college basketball is just not right and circumvents the intent because as I think Pistol said "it's the WIld, Wild West" out there right now with folks making up rules as they see fit.

But when a respected poster like willie says we got Rivera due to NIL dollars, well, I am curious as what that is.  If it is.  I'll stop for now but if you want to continue, PM me and I won't bore the rest of Billikens.com. 

Back to the original question you posed, no, I don't need to know details, but I for one would like to know who is propping our guys up just the same.

 

FYI I think you're responding to @RUBillsFannot me 

[cgeldmacher]

On 8/26/2022 at 1:02 PM, BilliesBy40 said:

This is why I think people are looking at NIL through the wrong lens when they say non-power schools won't be able to keep up with power conferences. Most of the big-time schools were already paying players. 

They did, but that was the under the table stuff by a few boosters.  Those same schools have a lot more crazy boosters that will be willing to spend money on bringing in players that were not willing to do the dufflebag full of cash type stuff.  That's the difference.  Making it legal is opening up a lot more money than the system before did.

[WVBilliken]

I see 247 has re-rated the 2023 prospects and both Cian Medley and Brock Vice show up as 3 star, 87 rated players.  Nice to see our guys get some respect.

[SLU_Nick]

On 8/25/2022 at 11:56 AM, billiken_roy said:

old guy we can agree to disagree.   the slu boosters that regularly give 5 figures or more are very plentiful.   the difference is slu will now what to adjust who gets what percentage of the pie now that the basketball players are getting paid.   i am not smart enough to figure out who gets what.   that's why the AD gets paid to figure that out.   my guess is the obscene amount of money the head coaches get will be reduced to "find the money" to pay the players.   of course those schools that have a lesser pipeline wont be able to pay as much or at all and thus the inevitable day of reckoning is coming that not everyone can be a D1 school anymore because they cannot compete.   i expect a somewhat rough estimate of the big BCS schools forming their own D1 and the rest of us become D1B.   which will only make it worse as the D! remaining will get all the TV and Tourney money and the big boosters will all want their selves associated with these schools so the divide will become even larger.   

I’m 37, dual income no kids.  Giving 10k to SLU basketball seems just an outrageous proposition and I’m as big a fan as they come. 

old people are rich af

also, I can’t believe I agree with old guy.  I think NIL money will dry up as soon as alumni realize that they can give Tx a&m football recruits 50k each or zero and they will still come in 4th or worse in the SEC. 

Especially true If a recession (ever) comes

[brianstl]

14 hours ago, SLU_Nick said:

I’m 37, dual income no kids.  Giving 10k to SLU basketball seems just an outrageous proposition and I’m as big a fan as they come. 

old people are rich af

also, I can’t believe I agree with old guy.  I think NIL money will dry up as soon as alumni realize that they can give Tx a&m football recruits 50k each or zero and they will still come in 4th or worse in the SEC. 

Especially true If a recession (ever) comes

The real money for the collectives doesn't come from a big money donor donating $10,000 to the collective for the football players at Texas A&M.  It is getting 50,000 Texas A&M fans to donate an average of $200 or more every year to the collective.  That right there gets you a $10 million plus budget to work with before you hit up the whales.  Will collectives at a schools like Texas A&M find 50,000 grassroots donors to contribute that every year?  I am sure they will once the collectives are completely built out.  You will have collective subscription services that will automatically deduct $20-30 dollars every month from your account when you join.  Just go online and pick the level you want to join at.

[Cowboy II]

58 minutes ago, brianstl said:

The real money for the collectives doesn't come from a big money donor donating $10,000 to the collective for the football players at Texas A&M.  It is getting 50,000 Texas A&M fans to donate an average of $200 or more every year to the collective.  That right there gets you a $10 million plus budget to work with before you hit up the whales.  Will collectives at a schools like Texas A&M find 50,000 grassroots donors to contribute that every year?  I am sure they will once the collectives are completely built out.  You will have collective subscription services that will automatically deduct $20-30 dollars every month from your account when you join.  Just go online and pick the level you want to join at.

-I would contribute to a Billiken Collective, more if somehow it could be a charitable contribution

[Pistol]

New interest:

Yaxel Lendeborg - PF, 6-9, 230 - Pennsauken Township, NJ (Arizona Western College) - Twitter: @Yaxel_Lendeborg
Offers: VCU, West Virginia, Houston, Cincinnati, New Mexico, Memphis, Wichita State, San Diego, North Texas, Florida International, Old Dominion, Ohio, Milwaukee, Northern Illinois, Youngstown State, Iona, Quinnipiac, Texas State, Arkansas State, Jacksonville, Lamar.

Interest: Saint Louis, Massachusetts, St. Joseph's, Xavier, Michigan, Illinois, Nebraska, Texas, Ole Miss, Florida State, Boston College, Oklahoma State, Oregon, Arizona State, Oregon State, San Diego State, Boise State, Wyoming, Temple, Tulsa, San Diego, Pacific, Murray State, Northern Iowa, Drake, Valparaiso, Illinois-Chicago, Missouri State, Indiana State, Bradley, UAB, North Texas, Texas-El Paso, Charlotte, Texas-San Antonio, Sam Houston State, Florida International, Miami-Ohio, Kent State, Milwaukee, IUPUI, Tennessee Tech, Chattanooga, East Tennessee State, Samford, Stony Brook, Texas-Arlington, Coastal Carolina, Louisiana-Monroe, North Dakota State, Kansas City, UC-Irvine, UC-Davis, UC-San Diego, Cal State-Bakersfield, Long Beach State, Hawaii, Montana State, Weber State, Northern Arizona, New Mexico State, Utah Tech, Utah Valley, Southern Utah, Tarleton State, North Alabama, Liberty, Stetson, Radford, North Carolina A&T, St. Francis-Brooklyn, Texas A&M-Corpus Christi, Texas A&M-Commerce, McNeese State, Incarnate Word, Northwestern State, Southern, Coppin State.

Latest News: Lendeborg received an offer from Wichita State. (9/1/22)

Scouting Report: Lendeborg is a tough, versatile, athletic power forward who plays harder than anyone on the floor. He's an efficient scorer who can step out and shoot it on occasion. He's an excellent passer who handles the ball well and can play multiple positions. He averaged a double-double as a JUCO freshman and was a third-team All-American.

 

Marcel Bryant - PF, 6-7, 210 - Round Rock, TX (SPIRE Institute, OH) - AAU: ProSkills Austin - Twitter: @Marcelbryant14
Offers: Canisius, Omaha, Tarleton State, Incarnate Word.

Interest: Saint Louis, Xavier, Maryland, Texas A&M, Virginia Tech, Tulsa, Colorado State, Boise State, San Jose State, Drake, Illinois-Chicago, Cornell, Rice, Louisiana Tech, Sam Houston State, Texas-San Antonio, Florida International, Ohio, Eastern Michigan, Youngstown State, IUPUI, Wofford, UNC-Greensboro, Holy Cross, Elon, Quinnipiac, Troy, Louisiana-Monroe, North Dakota, Cal State-Fullerton, UC-Davis, UC-San Diego, UMBC, UMass-Lowell, Merrimack, Liberty, Stetson, Seattle, Abilene Christian, Longwood, Mount St. Mary's, Lamar, Texas A&M-Commerce, Texas A&M-Corpus Christi, Houston Baptist, Northwestern State, Maryland-Eastern Shore, North Carolina Central, Coppin State, Grambling State, Prairie View A&M.

Latest News: Bryant received an offer from Omaha. (9/1/22)

Scouting Report: Bryant is a tough, smart, gritty forward. He battles for rebounds and finishes above the rim and through contact. He has soft touch on his jumper, which he can hit from out to the perimeter. He's an active defender. He graduated from Round Rock in Texas, reclassified to 2023, and is taking a prep year at SPIRE Institute in Ohio.

-SLU started showing interest in Bryant in 2020. He wasn't looking like a D-I prospect for a while so I dropped him from the list. Then he reclassified and they started following him again.

Several more bios coming soon.

[Taj79]

Reece Potter commits to Miami of Ohio.