slu92 Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 IF the Billikens don’t make NCAA and we move on from Travis Ford, does Chris May go too given how he said as long as he’s the AD at Slu, Travis Ford is going to be here a long time? Does SLU need a minor reset given new NIL world and transfers or a major overhaul? Like bring in a younger AD with a new coach? Biggest fear I’d have is it puts program back even further when we are already behind in raising NIL funds and trying to get to NCAA on a regular basis. That’s why this season seems very “heavy” whether people want to openly say it or not. So far I really like watching these guys play, compete, but we haven’t been tested at all yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billikenbooster Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 We really dont know about relationships he has with Big East, A10, etc. His hires have most of the time been good, both soccer coaches, VB coach seems ok ( still too early to see if she can bring in top local players), and the WBB coach. Changing two key players in the AD, IMHO, isnt a good idea. Let’s see how this season plays out before making any drastic moves Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgstl Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 4 minutes ago, Billikenbooster said: We really dont know about relationships he has with Big East, A10, etc. His hires have most of the time been good, both soccer coaches, VB coach seems ok ( still too early to see if she can bring in top local players), and the WBB coach. Changing two key players in the AD, IMHO, isnt a good idea. Let’s see how this season plays out before making any drastic moves Agreed. That’s a steep hill to climb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoosierPal Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 Thanks for the thread. You know it will degenerate into a Fire Ford and Fire May thread. But before it does, here is May's resume. Saint Louis has appeared in 22 NCAA Tournaments/Championships during May's tenure: 2008 – Volleyball 2009 – Men's Soccer 2009 – Volleyball 2010 – Baseball 2012 – Men's Basketball 2012 – Men's Soccer 2013 – Men's Basketball 2013 – Baseball 2014 – Men's Basketball 2014 – Men's Soccer 2018 – Baseball 2018 – Women's Soccer 2019 – Men's Basketball 2019 – Women's Soccer 2020 – Women's Soccer 2021 - Women's Soccer 2021 - Men's Soccer 2022 - Women's Soccer 2022 - Men's Soccer 2022 - Women's Basketball 2023 - Women's Soccer 2023 - Men's T & F Individual (added via editing) Billiken Rich and thunderdan like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CenHudDude Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 Thanks for researching those NCAA tournament appearances. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Elrond Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 Thanks for the research on the NCAA appearances. I say let’s let the season play out before deciding anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soderball Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 May's only real mistake is the unforgivable, malevolent, vile and deplorable act of hiring Jim Crews and Jim Platt. The two Jims of the billiken basketball apocalypse. He who failed at Army. And the undertaker of SLU hoops. Other than this reprehensible act he has been OK. I liked the Ford hire when it meant ditching he who was worse than Ron Ekker. Fords just out of his welcome after 8 years and not enough tourney showings. It's still a short list of who I want to see in his place. Box and Won, VeniceMenace, slu92 and 1 other like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, HoosierPal said: Thanks for the thread. You know it will degenerate into a Fire Ford and Fire May thread. But before it does, here is May's resume. Saint Louis has appeared in 21 NCAA Tournaments during May's tenure: 2008 – Volleyball 2009 – Men's Soccer 2009 – Volleyball 2010 – Baseball 2012 – Men's Basketball 2012 – Men's Soccer 2013 – Men's Basketball 2013 – Baseball 2014 – Men's Basketball 2014 – Men's Soccer 2018 – Baseball 2018 – Women's Soccer 2019 – Men's Basketball 2019 – Women's Soccer 2020 – Women's Soccer 2021 - Women's Soccer 2021 - Men's Soccer 2022 - Women's Soccer 2022 - Men's Soccer 2022 - Women's Basketball 2023 - Women's Soccer Or SLU plays 15 scholarship sports. Teams have had 240 chances to make the NCAAs since May took over. They have made it 21 times. So teams during May's tenure have made the NCAAs at a whopping rate of 8% Edited November 15, 2023 by thetorch Placed the 8% with a decimal point. TheA_Bomb, aj_arete and Tonka like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Elrond Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 2 minutes ago, thetorch said: Or SLU plays 15 scholarship sports. Teams have had 240 chances to make the NCAAs since May took over. They have made it 21 times. So teams during May's tenure have made the NCAAs at a whopping rate of .08% In order to determine the relevance of that number though, would we not have compare it with other mid-major and A10 schools, figure out how many sports they play and determine how many chances to make a NCAA tournament they have had across all sports and how many times they made it? Without a comparison, it’s just a number, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 7 minutes ago, thetorch said: Or SLU plays 15 scholarship sports. Teams have had 240 chances to make the NCAAs since May took over. They have made it 21 times. So teams during May's tenure have made the NCAAs at a whopping rate of .08% 8% rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 3 minutes ago, Lord Elrond said: In order to determine the relevance of that number though, would we not have compare it with other mid-major and A10 schools, figure out how many sports they play and determine how many chances to make a NCAA tournament they have had across all sports and how many times they made it? Without a comparison, it’s just a number, right? So is posting the 21 times we made the tournament. There was no context there either. Why does mine need context? Just pointing out some simple math that sadly I cannot type in correctly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taj79 Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 It's just a number with no relevance at this moment in time. You'd have to tally up all the non-football playing schools and all the comparative sports. No football. No hockey. No lacrosse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 May is a C student. The landscape changed drastically during his tenure and at each change SLU AD was flat footed. SLU AD is not innovative or a leader in anything. The conference competition has detiorated. What would you say SLU AD is particularly good at? Here's some areas for consideration: Hiring GameDay operations Traditional Fundraising Social media Traditional media Facilities Finances Compliance Competitiveness/championships/ winning Fan/booster engagement Influence beyond the organization (conference/ connections/NCAA) Feel free to add other areas to evaluate the AD on. I think our facilities are good in comparison to the conference and like schools (except the baseball field). Just about all other areas I rate a C or D. Bizziken, The Don, billiken_roy and 5 others like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Elrond Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 17 minutes ago, thetorch said: So is posting the 21 times we made the tournament. There was no context there either. Why does mine need context? Just pointing out some simple math that sadly I cannot type in correctly. They both need context, you are right. I am the last person on here who would ever point out a typo, I make far too many of them myself… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thetorch Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 Has SLU ever won a Director's Cup under May? I can't find year by year records for the A10. Also wondering why "Fire May Fire Ford" posts are derided, the vast majority of the board are decidedly anti May/Ford. While posts that are "Ford & May are great" are not met with such scrutiny by the vocal minority even though they are a constant presence in every thread. Also, why do the Pro Ford/May posters always preemptively bring up "Fire May, Fire Ford" topic? The other side almost never brings it up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Elrond Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 It would be nice to inject some comparison’s based on overall performance of all the teams. The A10 doesn’t seem to publicize or make it easy to find past Directors Cup winners and standings, I’ll say that. Also, for programs, like Dayton, that play FCS level football, does an appearance in that count? It is a NCAA sport, and they sponsor a tournament in it, so if you were doing this wouldn’t their appearance in that in 2015 count? What about men’s and women’’s NIT tournaments count? I tried to do this for Dayton for comparison, but it’s a pain in the butt and I gave up. If someone else wants to, go for it. I also hate to bring this up, but I’ve become convinced you can’t just say “Fire Ford” and not have an answer for how his buyout is taken care of. We are not Texas A&M, with boosters willing to throw stupid amounts of money at departing coaches to make them go away. AGB91 likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soderball Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 54 minutes ago, Lord Elrond said: It would be nice to inject some comparison’s based on overall performance of all the teams. The A10 doesn’t seem to publicize or make it easy to find past Directors Cup winners and standings, I’ll say that. Also, for programs, like Dayton, that play FCS level football, does an appearance in that count? It is a NCAA sport, and they sponsor a tournament in it, so if you were doing this wouldn’t their appearance in that in 2015 count? What about men’s and women’’s NIT tournaments count? I tried to do this for Dayton for comparison, but it’s a pain in the butt and I gave up. If someone else wants to, go for it. I also hate to bring this up, but I’ve become convinced you can’t just say “Fire Ford” and not have an answer for how his buyout is taken care of. We are not Texas A&M, with boosters willing to throw stupid amounts of money at departing coaches to make them go away. Would be a moot point if the AD stopped extending him. They keep giving him extensions so he can "recruit" and then put mediocre product on the floor. Some people here called for retiring Collins's jersey. Zero tournament appearances. Madness. Billiken fans have Travis Ford Stockholm Syndrome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Elrond Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 I hear what you are saying, but: Billiken fans did not negotiate Travis Ford’s contract Billiken fans did not have any say in agreeing to or signing Travis Ford’s contract Billiken fans did not approve Travis Ford’s contract Billiken fans actually don’t know the details of Travis Ford’s contract due to the University policy of not saying anything Billiken fans don’t know the current status of what any potential buyout would be to that contract at the end of any given year Billiken fans have no way to find out any of that information even if they wanted to, we can only make guesses The only choice Billiken fans have is either A: Continue to attend games and watch on TV, or B: Don’t buy tickets, don’t watch the games on TV Unless you are calling for a fan boycott of Men’s Basketball games, I’m not sure what else can be done by Billiken fans However, judging by reported attendance at games this year, it seems like a lot of Billiken fans are already headed in that direction Billiken Rich likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 I would think just sitting back and waiting for the end of the season to make any evaluations will only put us further behind. Any effective organization always has an eye on the future so they are not caught with their pants down. What we do know is that May's approach to hiring is very long and drawn out so if he is not putting together a short list and doing some back channeling soon we will be left with the leftovers which honestly is basically what happened with Ford's hiring which he was he still available then. I get he is approaches his hires very slow and perhaps thoughtful. Unfortunately, what we see is that the good ones go quickly so hitting the ground running is imperative. Anybody who hasn't seen that May runs his department a bit sloppy hasn't been paying attention. I have no problem with watching to see what happens this season but you will know by the mid-January where things are going. Ford saving his bacon this season was always a bit of a steep climb so there is no reason to just sitting on our hands until the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 20 minutes ago, cheeseman said: I would think just sitting back and waiting for the end of the season to make any evaluations will only put us further behind. Any effective organization always has an eye on the future so they are not caught with their pants down. What we do know is that May's approach to hiring is very long and drawn out so if he is not putting together a short list and doing some back channeling soon we will be left with the leftovers which honestly is basically what happened with Ford's hiring which he was he still available then. I get he is approaches his hires very slow and perhaps thoughtful. Unfortunately, what we see is that the good ones go quickly so hitting the ground running is imperative. Anybody who hasn't seen that May runs his department a bit sloppy hasn't been paying attention. I have no problem with watching to see what happens this season but you will know by the mid-January where things are going. Ford saving his bacon this season was always a bit of a steep climb so there is no reason to just sitting on our hands until the end. I'm with Lord Elrond on this one. Until you get around the buyout issue, any talk of replacing Coach Ford is wishful thinking. I think deep down most people understand this which is why they just skip around the issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 28 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said: I'm with Lord Elrond on this one. Until you get around the buyout issue, any talk of replacing Coach Ford is wishful thinking. I think deep down most people understand this which is why they just skip around the issue. This is where I'm at too. Either another school can hire him away and save us some of that money. (see Shaka to Marquette when Texas was looking to fire him). Or a donor or three step up and write a check. Or we wait until it ends or the buyout is affordable. As for this discussion which I believe is focused on May, I blame him for this predicament. Even if a booster was paying for Ford and pushing for extension. The AD is the one that needs to make a smarter deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUMS81 Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 Even the bluebloods can have difficult years when they are in rebuilding mode. A couple of questions as we contemplate blowing up the program: Is TF responsible for the BVF recruiting /signing budget? Is Chris May? What % of D1 coaches do we think could take our current roster into the NCAA tournament? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheA_Bomb Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 12 minutes ago, SLUMS81 said: Even the bluebloods can have difficult years when they are in rebuilding mode. A couple of questions as we contemplate blowing up the program: Is TF responsible for the BVF recruiting /signing budget? Is Chris May? What % of D1 coaches do we think could take our current roster into the NCAA tournament? Regarding BVF, they're indirectly responsible. The Robertson interview revealed that part of the problem is booster attitudes towards NIL. Also, I believe a lack of enthusiasm is to blame. May and Ford could effect those two hindrances to BVF Fundraising. Existing coaches to take our roster to NCAA? 0%. Outside a conference tournament surprise run this is not a tournament team.* That's part of the problem that Ford has been in place and this team has so many question marks in year 8. *even if a couple guys turned out to be better than expected the schedule is so bad it would be very difficult to get an at large bid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 25 minutes ago, SLUMS81 said: Even the bluebloods can have difficult years when they are in rebuilding mode. A couple of questions as we contemplate blowing up the program: Is TF responsible for the BVF recruiting /signing budget? Is Chris May? What % of D1 coaches do we think could take our current roster into the NCAA tournament? If we had met the expectations rightfully placed on last years team, not a single person on this board would be complaining about a roster that looks like this(granted the compliance issues would still be an issue). However I would imagine, if last years team gets to the NCAA tournament, this team would probably have a much older and stronger front court. On the other hand, the game has changed. There really are no "rebuilds" anymore, everyone can reload in the portal. Bizziken and aj_arete like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted November 15, 2023 Share Posted November 15, 2023 If you're not happy with the roster, fund NIL. This will be true no matter who the head coach is. cgeldmacher, billiken_roy and SLUMedBilliken15 like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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