Billiken Victory Fund

[wgstl]

3 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

DLarry, I agree with you most of the time and disagree with you rarely.  So, I picked your post to respond to this.

I understand why fans are upset about this season, but don't think we should fire Ford.  I say this, because I think he can get us to a higher place, even though I totally agree that he hasn't done so yet at SLU.  Saying I want to keep him is not saying that I am okay with mediocrity or that I am blind to Ford's faults.  What it is saying is that I think that we have a better chance at getting the program where we want it to be with Ford staying on as coach than with whomever we could get to come in as a new coach next season.

What happened this season?  We thought we were getting Perkins from 2 years ago, and he has been nothing close to that.  We all over valued Okoro, didn't realize how much we'd miss Linssen, and had too much faith in Forrester.  Our bigs have been, in general, a downfall.  The team just didn't gel, and we lost of few crucial games due to unfortunate lapses like suddenly forgetting how to make a free throw.

That being said, I can see next year's team, even with graduation and defections, being better than the team this season.  Sometimes, different combinations of guys just gel together better.   Ask Calipari how that works?  If he's honest, he'll say he has no clue why one group of his blue chip recruits win a championship and another sucks.  It just happens.

I agree that Ford has not provided us with evidence that he can win at the level we want, at least not yet.  I just like how he can recruit and how he promotes the team. For those reasons, I think he can.  The folks that want him gone also don't have any evidence of what a new coach will do.  So, for me, I just want to stay to course for now and see what happens.  If we really fall off next year and are not showing any signs that we could be heading towards our ultimate goals, then I may be right there with you after next season.

I can see and for the most part understand where you're coming from.   I just don't know how much longer we can keep going with lets just give him more time.  This is a crucial stage in Billiken athletics not just for us fans, but future expansions. 

If Ford was coming up just short of NCAAT, or giving us a legit chance of winning the A10 most years, I'd be ok with seeing where this goes a little longer, but he absolutely hasn't done either of those.  We're in year 7,  and the idea of Ford just finishing 4th seems like a realistic goal for this program. That's not good. 

How long are you willing to wait this out for?  To me, he has until the end of next season.  I don't care if anyone gets injured, that's too many years to not do anything.  

Last, you say next years team being better than this one. There's a really good chance of that.  This team is ranked in the 100's, but just being better doesn't mean much, it needs to be a lot better. 

[brianstl]

25 minutes ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

Schmidt has a mediocre record in his total years at st bonaventure. He had several horrendous years. If fans like you had been in control he would have been long gone before he had success. Look it up, would you have tolerated his first 7 years??? Thanks for proving my point.

If I was a Bonnie fan I would have been really happy with the job he did his first 7 seasons.  He took over what had been a scandal plagued program that was among the worst programs in the A10.  They have inferior facilities and are in a location that is extremely difficult to get to.  People on here talk about kicking the likes of LaSalle and Fordham out of the conference, every fan base in the conference wanted to kick out the Bonnies at the time.  He stabilized the program, brought them to respectability and got them into the NCAA tournament for only the second time in 25 years.  So if I was a Bonnies fan i would not have only tolerated his first seven seasons, but I would have celebrated them.

What Schmidt took over and what Ford took over were in no way similar so there is a different set of expectations.  

[cgeldmacher]

20 minutes ago, wgstl said:

I can see and for the most part understand where you're coming from.   I just don't know how much longer we can keep going with lets just give him more time.  This is a crucial stage in Billiken athletics not just for us fans, but future expansions. 

If Ford was coming up just short of NCAAT, or giving us a legit chance of winning the A10 most years, I'd be ok with seeing where this goes a little longer, but he absolutely hasn't done either of those.  We're in year 7,  and the idea of Ford just finishing 4th seems like a realistic goal for this program. That's not good. 

How long are you willing to wait this out for?  To me, he has until the end of next season.  I don't care if anyone gets injured, that's too many years to not do anything.  

Last, you say next years team being better than this one. There's a really good chance of that.  This team is ranked in the 100's, but just being better doesn't mean much, it needs to be a lot better. 

See, we're proving that our thinking is not that far off.  Let me say that this year's team still has a chance at winning a regular season conference championship.  Doing so would not be a bad year.

I agree that next season is a crucial one for Ford.  I disagree that next year's team has to immediately be better than this year's team.  If we have a core of young guys who make us think that we could have a very good run for a few years, even if they don't make the tournament next season, we have to keep Ford on to attempt to make that run.  If next year's team doesn't give us that vibe, then I agree, Ford will have had too many chances and it will be time to move on.

[wgstl]

9 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

See, we're proving that our thinking is not that far off.  Let me say that this year's team still has a chance at winning a regular season conference championship.  Doing so would not be a bad year.

I agree that next season is a crucial one for Ford.  I disagree that next year's team has to immediately be better than this year's team.  If we have a core of young guys who make us think that we could have a very good run for a few years, even if they don't make the tournament next season, we have to keep Ford on to attempt to make that run.  If next year's team doesn't give us that vibe, then I agree, Ford will have had too many chances and it will be time to move on.

- yes Ford would get a small token for winning the regular season no matter how much this season disappointed. While its possible still, Its not likely(better idea after tonight). 

- I'm ok with a 4th, 5th or maybe 6th place finish and a top 150ish ranking in a rebuilding year.  Problem with that, the rebuilding has to come off some sort of success. Barring a miracle in Brooklyn, that wont be the case.  So to me Ford will have to show success, and that success has to be better than this season.  Again, that's doable in a rebuilding year because that's how disappointing this year was, and is likely to finish out.  Im not saying he needs to out preform the 2013 SLU team, just the 2023. 

[dennis_w]

5 hours ago, CenHudDude said:

To quote you Dennis:  “I hope you are not trying to confuse the issue with facts”.

it was my attempt at facts, i failed

[ARon]

59 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

That being said, I can see next year's team, even with graduation and defections, being better than the team this season.  Sometimes, different combinations of guys just gel together better.   Ask Calipari how that works?  If he's honest, he'll say he has no clue why one group of his blue chip recruits win a championship and another sucks. 

Wow. I'm amazed at such an optimistic take. 

Yes anything can happen and yes I am also excited to see the future of this year's freshmen class. 

But NEXT year the team being better than this one?  That feels like both a super-rosey view of that group's potential and an out-and-out inditement of this year's squad.

If we are lucky, the program will bring back 3 of tonight's starters next season. Realistically it may only be 1. Not to mention also losing the first 3 guys off the bench. And as good as the underclassmen may be, they'll still be inexperienced with Hughes being the only one to maybe get significant minutes when all is said and done this year.

Ford or no Ford, finishing in the top 5-6 of the A10 next year will probably be a successful campaign.

[dennis_w]

37 minutes ago, ARon said:

Wow. I'm amazed at such an optimistic take. 

Yes anything can happen and yes I am also excited to see the future of this year's freshmen class. 

But NEXT year the team being better than this one?  That feels like both a super-rosey view of that group's potential and an out-and-out inditement of this year's squad.

If we are lucky, the program will bring back 3 of tonight's starters next season. Realistically it may only be 1. Not to mention also losing the first 3 guys off the bench. And as good as the underclassmen may be, they'll still be inexperienced with Hughes being the only one to maybe get significant minutes when all is said and done this year.

Ford or no Ford, finishing in the top 5-6 of the A10 next year will probably be a successful campaign.

the portal changes everything, hit on the right guys and top of the league becomes possible

[ARon]

48 minutes ago, dennis_w said:

the portal changes everything, hit on the right guys and top of the league becomes possible

There are about 300 other programs thinking the same thing.

 

Maybe 10 will be correct each year.

[ACE]

2 hours ago, brianstl said:

If I was a Bonnie fan I would have been really happy with the job he did his first 7 seasons.  He took over what had been a scandal plagued program that was among the worst programs in the A10.  They have inferior facilities and are in a location that is extremely difficult to get to.  People on here talk about kicking the likes of LaSalle and Fordham out of the conference, every fan base in the conference wanted to kick out the Bonnies at the time.  He stabilized the program, brought them to respectability and got them into the NCAA tournament for only the second time in 25 years.  So if I was a Bonnies fan i would not have only tolerated his first seven seasons, but I would have celebrated them.

What Schmidt took over and what Ford took over were in no way similar so there is a different set of expectations.  

In fairness, Ford took over the Crews dumpster fire with very little talent on the roster. He, unfortunately, had the S2 situation set things back a bit, but he did significantly upgrade the roster very quickly. We'll never know of course, but I think Henrizuqez in particular would have been an impact player.

[dennis_w]

10 minutes ago, ARon said:

There are about 300 other programs thinking the same thing.

 

Maybe 10 will be correct each year.

your saying we have a chance

 

[Billiken Rich]

18 minutes ago, dennis_w said:

your saying we have a chance

 

Even the word "hopeless" has hope in it.....

[dennis_w]

maybe some body can help me, have the billikens ever had a transfer that helped the team?

31 minutes ago, ACE said:

In fairness, Ford took over the Crews dumpster fire with very little talent on the roster. He, unfortunately, had the S2 situation set things back a bit, but he did significantly upgrade the roster very quickly. We'll never know of course, but I think Henrizuqez in particular would have been an impact player.

santos likely would have been an impact player also

[wgstl]

21 minutes ago, dennis_w said:

maybe some body can help me, have the billikens ever had a transfer that helped the team?

santos likely would have been an impact player also

2019 team minus jgood and has 

[Schasz]

Javon Bess was a very good transfer player from Michigan St who definitely helped us get to Ford's only NCAA appearance.

[billiken_roy]

1 hour ago, dennis_w said:

maybe some body can help me, have the billikens ever had a transfer that helped the team?

santos likely would have been an impact player also

David Burns, Charlie Newberry, Donnie Dobbs, H Waldman Javon Bess, Francis Okoro, Javonte Perkins quickly come to mind.   There are more quality transfers that helped the team 

[RiseOfTheBillikens]

1 hour ago, Schasz said:

Javon Bess was a very good transfer player from Michigan St who definitely helped us get to Ford's only NCAA appearance.

And?

[TheA_Bomb]

Tremaine Isabell was on fire in the A10 tournament and helped us get that bid.

[slufan13]

17 hours ago, wgstl said:

I hope. Tovorik isn't buying that we're improving late.

Yeah I was very wrong

[VeniceMenace]

14 hours ago, dennis_w said:

your saying we have a chance

 

Ford’s saving grace….especially when you have a conference 3-point percentage of 40%. For Spoon the D was good enough that meant an NCAA bid despite no player taller than 6-5. For Ford it means roll the dice and pray.

[cgeldmacher]

22 hours ago, ARon said:

Wow. I'm amazed at such an optimistic take. 

Yes anything can happen and yes I am also excited to see the future of this year's freshmen class. 

But NEXT year the team being better than this one?  That feels like both a super-rosey view of that group's potential and an out-and-out inditement of this year's squad.

If we are lucky, the program will bring back 3 of tonight's starters next season. Realistically it may only be 1. Not to mention also losing the first 3 guys off the bench. And as good as the underclassmen may be, they'll still be inexperienced with Hughes being the only one to maybe get significant minutes when all is said and done this year.

Ford or no Ford, finishing in the top 5-6 of the A10 next year will probably be a successful campaign.

Here is how that happens:

1. Get some, obviously not all, of our current guys to stick around another year.  Of course I'm talking about the ones that can. (Will clearly lose something here, but I'm just saying lessen the blow)

2. Get a quality big in the portal.  Also, one of Momo or the two freshman step up to have a good season (Could be an improvement over this season and will open up a lot of other things)

3. Parker's game progresses and he gives us more than the combination of him and Perkins gave us over the entirety of this season (Could be an improvement)

4. Have one guy of Hughes, Kramer, Medley, or a transfer step up to be a serious outside, three point threat (Could be an improvement over last year if Jimerson is one of the guys you keep)

The above scenario, I think, could produce a team that has better success next season than this season.

[Soderball]

On 2/21/2023 at 1:48 PM, wgstl said:

I can see and for the most part understand where you're coming from.   I just don't know how much longer we can keep going with lets just give him more time.  This is a crucial stage in Billiken athletics not just for us fans, but future expansions. 

If Ford was coming up just short of NCAAT, or giving us a legit chance of winning the A10 most years, I'd be ok with seeing where this goes a little longer, but he absolutely hasn't done either of those.  We're in year 7,  and the idea of Ford just finishing 4th seems like a realistic goal for this program. That's not good. 

How long are you willing to wait this out for?  To me, he has until the end of next season.  I don't care if anyone gets injured, that's too many years to not do anything.  

Last, you say next years team being better than this one. There's a really good chance of that.  This team is ranked in the 100's, but just being better doesn't mean much, it needs to be a lot better. 

It's gonna get worse, the A10 upgraded coaching big time bringing in guys like Fran Dunphy & Archie Miller & Frank Martin. Expect TF to finish in the top 8. Yeah.

[dennis_w]

On 2/21/2023 at 6:14 PM, billiken_roy said:

David Burns, Charlie Newberry, Donnie Dobbs, H Waldman Javon Bess, Francis Okoro, Javonte Perkins quickly come to mind.   There are more quality transfers that helped the team 

Absolutely

[almaman]

On 2/21/2023 at 1:35 PM, cgeldmacher said:

DLarry, I agree with you most of the time and disagree with you rarely.  So, I picked your post to respond to this.

I understand why fans are upset about this season, but don't think we should fire Ford.  I say this, because I think he can get us to a higher place, even though I totally agree that he hasn't done so yet at SLU.  Saying I want to keep him is not saying that I am okay with mediocrity or that I am blind to Ford's faults.  What it is saying is that I think that we have a better chance at getting the program where we want it to be with Ford staying on as coach than with whomever we could get to come in as a new coach next season.

What happened this season?  We thought we were getting Perkins from 2 years ago, and he has been nothing close to that.  We all over valued Okoro, didn't realize how much we'd miss Linssen, and had too much faith in Forrester.  Our bigs have been, in general, a downfall.  The team just didn't gel, and we lost of few crucial games due to unfortunate lapses like suddenly forgetting how to make a free throw.

That being said, I can see next year's team, even with graduation and defections, being better than the team this season.  Sometimes, different combinations of guys just gel together better.   Ask Calipari how that works?  If he's honest, he'll say he has no clue why one group of his blue chip recruits win a championship and another sucks.  It just happens.

I agree that Ford has not provided us with evidence that he can win at the level we want, at least not yet.  I just like how he can recruit and how he promotes the team. For those reasons, I think he can.  The folks that want him gone also don't have any evidence of what a new coach will do.  So, for me, I just want to stay to course for now and see what happens.  If we really fall off next year and are not showing any signs that we could be heading towards our ultimate goals, then I may be right there with you after next season.

great. 

 why people disagree with someone  and say they want failure or whatever the opposite of what both hope for. it was said earlier to roy; "so u want 2 lose" or something childish like that. winning is hard to "" a NCOTY. look @ Yankees mine & large % of USA most hated team. They seem to have as good lineup $ can buy every season & $ reason they are always favored but they hadn't won 4ever b4 this last one. When we recruit @ Brad level it's always hard. We got Ford who I hated from the day he left Mizzou till 2 days after he signed up. We immediately started getting locals that we sometimes didn't even pursue b4 it raised the excitement level & also expectations kind of an assist/turnover thing. Now beating us is important to all our opponents & even harder.                                                                                                          Teams like the Steelers, Dodgers, UCLA, tend to stand by their choices & recognize that they're trying to be #1 every year vs 13 other teams (in our case) so if all was = u'd b #1 14% of the time. Every year with TF we've been competitive almost all we've fallen way short every year but 1. 

[RUBillsFan]

 

[slufan13]

Are we sure this actually exists or is this a Nigerian prince scam that Billiken fans fell for?