cheeseman Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 8 hours ago, Cowboy II said: -not to intrude on your discussion but do you think he would listen? Well if he wouldn't it would be at his own peril Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOC Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 20 hours ago, cheeseman said: OK let say your post is totally 100% dead on then answer me this - Why has he not recognized his faults and hire a coach who knows the X and Os but who also knows he is best situated as an assistant. Other schools do it but for some reason Ford has not done so at least for now. VA did it with Sodie as an example. Didn't Ford do exactly that when he hired Giacoletti? Sounds like he fits your job description to a T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 hour ago, DOC said: Didn't Ford do exactly that when he hired Giacoletti? Sounds like he fits your job description to a T. Perhaps but then he left for whatever the reason and nobody like him has been hired that I have seen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DOC Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 21 minutes ago, cheeseman said: Perhaps but then he left for whatever the reason and nobody like him has been hired that I have seen You asked why hasn’t he recognized his faults and hired the kind of coach that he actually hired. When Giacolleti was here Ford leaned on him heavily during games. And the reason we don’t have one now is that they are really hard to find. We got lucky in that Coach G was living in St. Louis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_w Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 36 minutes ago, DOC said: You asked why hasn’t he recognized his faults and hired the kind of coach that he actually hired. When Giacolleti was here Ford leaned on him heavily during games. And the reason we don’t have one now is that they are really hard to find. We got lucky in that Coach G was living in St. Louis. having an x an o coach sounds like a great idea and it likely has some merit, but the guys you need the most are basketball players, it is hard to blame the x and o guy when the players miss 10 free throws. i.e. auburn when nobody could make an unguarded 15 footer. if perkins didnt have injuries and returned to POY form, ford would look a whole lot better as a coach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy II Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 28 minutes ago, dennis_w said: having an x an o coach sounds like a great idea and it likely has some merit, but the guys you need the most are basketball players, it is hard to blame the x and o guy when the players miss 10 free throws. i.e. auburn when nobody could make an unguarded 15 footer. if perkins didnt have injuries and returned to POY form, ford would look a whole lot better as a coach -that doesn't send a glowing message about the players CFord recruited Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_w Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 27 minutes ago, Cowboy II said: -that doesn't send a glowing message about the players CFord recruited how many wins is enough? 24 last year wasnt, is there a number that would make the ford detractors happy? 15 teams in the conference and only 1 or 2 will make the tournament, are all the teams bad? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCoBillsFan Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, dennis_w said: how many wins is enough? 24 last year wasnt, is there a number that would make the ford detractors happy? 15 teams in the conference and only 1 or 2 will make the tournament, are all the teams bad? Number of wins doesn’t really matter when you play against weak competition. I think the context that’s missing from this discussion is how much Ford gets paid. If you’re the highest paid coach in the A10, how come you’ve never finished higher than fourth in six seasons (and most likely to finish fourth in your seventh season)? Fourth place should not be celebrated in this conference. Besides Dayton, SLU has the most money invested into basketball in a weak A10. There’s no reason we can’t be like VCU or Dayton with regular top 3 finishes and in serious bubble conversations almost every season. Soderball, majerus mojo, Bizziken and 1 other like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgstl Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 9 minutes ago, dennis_w said: how many wins is enough? 24 last year wasnt, is there a number that would make the ford detractors happy? 15 teams in the conference and only 1 or 2 will make the tournament, are all the teams bad? Ya, and that number is incredibly obvious, how ever many is needed to finally get an at large bid Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgstl Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, NoCoBillsFan said: Fourth place should not be celebrated in this conference. I'll settle for this if its because we lost a big class from the year before that took up to the tournament. But, iirc we got bounced right away in the NIT so.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCoBillsFan Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 2 minutes ago, wgstl said: Ya, and that number is incredibly obvious, how ever many is needed to finally get an at large bid We can rack up as many wins as we want against La Salle and St Joes but we ain’t getting many at larges losing to UMass and SIUE. Bizziken, Soderball and rgbilliken like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_w Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 minute ago, wgstl said: Ya, and that number is incredibly obvious, how ever many is needed to finally get an at large bid it is tough to get an at large in a mid major conference and you know that, the net is stacked for the big boys, i think expectations for the season are disappointing, but likely they were not realistic Billikenbooster likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCoBillsFan Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 Just now, wgstl said: I'll settle for this if its because we lost a big class from the year before that took up to the tournament. 100%. Rebuild years are a part of college sports. But fourth place should not be your ceiling. BC1764 likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgstl Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 Just now, dennis_w said: it is tough to get an at large in a mid major conference and you know that, the net is stacked for the big boys, i think expectations for the season are disappointing, but likely they were not realistic I don't think its fully Fords fault that we had so many players regress from last year. But he is in charge, so he is held accountable to some degree for that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_w Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 minute ago, NoCoBillsFan said: 100%. Rebuild years are a part of college sports. But fourth place should not be your ceiling. perkins injury is the "big loss" pre injury he was a differene maker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_w Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 minute ago, wgstl said: I don't think its fully Fords fault that we had so many players regress from last year. But he is in charge, so he is held accountable to some degree for that. yes he owns his record, but as i have said, evaluate the season after it is over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCoBillsFan Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, dennis_w said: perkins injury is the "big loss" pre injury he was a differene maker Honest question, do you think we’ve seen Ford’s ceiling then? If not, what do you think is his ceiling? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgstl Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 minute ago, dennis_w said: perkins injury is the "big loss" pre injury he was a differene maker tbh and I had said this before the season started I didn't think we needed a fully healthy JP to make the Tourney. Yuri until recently haven't updated the numbers, Gibson, Okoro, Jake, and Pickett all had regressed from their numbers last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_w Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 Just now, NoCoBillsFan said: Honest question, do you think we’ve seen Ford’s ceiling then? If not, what do you think is his ceiling? i hope he takes the billikens to a perennial tournament team, i think he has laid a foundation for that, but it takes time, gonzaga took years to become gonzaga, i dont think he has hit his ceiling yet, starting over would be a questionable a maybe bad move, 20 plus win seasons have not been common historically Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_w Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 3 minutes ago, wgstl said: tbh and I had said this before the season started I didn't think we needed a fully healthy JP to make the Tourney. Yuri until recently haven't updated the numbers, Gibson, Okoro, Jake, and Pickett all had regressed from their numbers last year. perkins, okoro regression , pickett injury and the loss of thatch have made the tourney bid a tough one, the season is not over yet, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 3 hours ago, DOC said: Didn't Ford do exactly that when he hired Giacoletti? Sounds like he fits your job description to a T. i also thought that would be the case, but there was no indication giacoletti truly had any player development, game prep and during game input during his time as a billiken assistant imo. seemed like the same ole thing to me. willie likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VeniceMenace Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 36 minutes ago, dennis_w said: yes he owns his record, but as i have said, evaluate the season after it is over Such a fine line between success and failure. Hold onto late-game leads vs. Auburn and SIUE and this team is pretty close to meeting preseason expectations, even with Perkins being hobbled. Ford has a tough job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbj14 Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 Expectations of a tournament appearance this year with the players we had returning, and additions via portal, were absolutely realistic IMO. But when all is said and done, it’s likely that this year will be similar to last: close, but just not enough (barring a miraculous run in Brooklyn) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy II Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 hour ago, dennis_w said: how many wins is enough? 24 last year wasnt, is there a number that would make the ford detractors happy? 15 teams in the conference and only 1 or 2 will make the tournament, are all the teams bad? -I was just mentioning you attributing at least one loss to the players, not the coach -I agree with you that season can't be fully evaluated until it closes but points/discussion should be allowed in the interim -my expectation was JPerk would be better in January than he was in November, from at least a defensive pov that has not fully materialized -the great majority of people on here and in the media said in the preseason this was a top 30 team, top 30 teams make the Tourney regardless of the league, if folks had an unrealistic view of JPerk's ability from the start that's on them but we were also told about the unprecedented depth this team has or had -the season is not over so the final evaluation is yet to be made Bizziken likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dennis_w Posted February 20, 2023 Share Posted February 20, 2023 1 minute ago, Cowboy II said: -I was just mentioning you attributing at least one loss to the players, not the coach -I agree with you that season can't be fully evaluated until it closes but points/discussion should be allowed in the interim -my expectation was JPerk would be better in January than he was in November, from at least a defensive pov that has not fully materialized -the great majority of people on here and in the media said in the preseason this was a top 30 team, top 30 teams make the Tourney regardless of the league, if folks had an unrealistic view of JPerk's ability from the start that's on them but we were also told about the unprecedented depth this team has or had -the season is not over so the final evaluation is yet to be made my observation is perkins has not recovered from the ankle injury, preseason top 30 was based on him making a solid returen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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