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Off topic: Screw Stan Kroenke


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10 hours ago, cheeseman said:

People keep saying St. Louis would get this money but they are only one of 3 suing the NFL.  The City would not get all of it.  The debt on the Dome is held by the Convention Center Group and the County has dog in the fight.  I have seen where the case could be easily worth up to 2 billion.  If the NFL powers don't want to have their dirty laundry aired in court then they will have to pay up for it.

Thank you for the clarity on the other plaintiffs involved.

You made great points about the NFL and some owners having to open their books and will have to air their dirty laundry, what is the NFL’s price on that plus the monetary damages would make building a new stadium and giving St. Louis a team much cheaper.

I have always felt and I am probably wrong that the NFL should have paid off the 100 million dollar mortgage on the dome, not put St. Louis through a 16 millions dollar snipe hunt of building a stadium to keep the team and a big thank you to St. Louis on the way out could have avoided all of this.

Instead the NFL lied, flipped us all off by bad mouthing our community , and cost the parties involved in building a new stadium 16 million dollars on a lie that the team would stay if it was built.

I praise the business leaders and political leaders that got the new stadium plan done so fast.  It was a job well done and unusual for our community because in the past we don’t work that well with each other.

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NFL returning to STL is a great story but that's all it is....a story these guys can put out there to generate clicks and listens for their articles and podcasts. In addition to the numerous reasons already stated above as to why the NFL won't be returning here, let's not forget about corporate support. Our region has a respectable corporate presence but some have decided or will decide to throw their support behind STL City (in addition to the Blues and Cardinals) and I'm sure others want nothing to do with the NFL after what they did. And who would own this new team? I would assume part of any agreement would include local ownership. Wonder how much Steve Goedeker made slanging tvs in the 90s. Although the NFL is on Sunday so he's probably out....

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1 hour ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:

NFL returning to STL is a great story but that's all it is....a story these guys can put out there to generate clicks and listens for their articles and podcasts. In addition to the numerous reasons already stated above as to why the NFL won't be returning here, let's not forget about corporate support. Our region has a respectable corporate presence but some have decided or will decide to throw their support behind STL City (in addition to the Blues and Cardinals) and I'm sure others want nothing to do with the NFL after what they did. And who would own this new team? I would assume part of any agreement would include local ownership. Wonder how much Steve Goedeker made slanging tvs in the 90s. Although the NFL is on Sunday so he's probably out....

What's crazy is that Goedeker's is now a publicly held company - ticker symbol GOED.  Steve is no longer involved in running it, however.

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1 hour ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:

NFL returning to STL is a great story but that's all it is....a story these guys can put out there to generate clicks and listens for their articles and podcasts. In addition to the numerous reasons already stated above as to why the NFL won't be returning here, let's not forget about corporate support. Our region has a respectable corporate presence but some have decided or will decide to throw their support behind STL City (in addition to the Blues and Cardinals) and I'm sure others want nothing to do with the NFL after what they did. And who would own this new team? I would assume part of any agreement would include local ownership. Wonder how much Steve Goedeker made slanging tvs in the 90s. Although the NFL is on Sunday so he's probably out....

Steve Goedecker got a pretty nice pay out when he sold the company to 1847 Holdings.  I think it was over $6 million in cash and a few million more in 1847 stock.  Not NFL owner payout, but not bad for a guy that took over a really tiny store with no parking lot next to Giphels market in south St. Louis.  When I was a kid, my friends and I would go in that store all the time to see the latest and greatest electronics they had.  Steve, the rest of the family and the staff couldn't have been any nicer to a group of grade school kids with no adult supervision.  One summer day they popped in the Star Trek laserdisc and told us to watch the whole movie.

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The last time the NFL got sued in this situation, it was Cleveland.  The Browns had moved to Baltimore and Cleveland sued.  What the NFL had going for it at the time was the Cleveland was so hungry for football that offering it an expansion team was an easy fix to the situation.  After settling that case, the NFL put new relocation guidelines in place that were intended to, if followed, prevent them from being sued again.

Then the Rams moved to LA.  The NFL completely ignored the relocation guidelines it put in place during the Cleveland lawsuit when it allowed the Rams to move.  This fact has actually made the St. Louis lawsuit better than the one Cleveland had.  When more stringent, very logical and straight forward guidelines are blown off, the case looks better to a jury.

Now there are stories about offering St. Louis a team.  I suspect that the owners, hearing that things look dire for them, are now wanting to make it go away without actually having to pay out real money.  An expansion team requires logistics, but doesn't require the NFL to write a check.  There are several differences between this situation and the one in Cleveland that the idiot NFL owners are not considering:

1. Most people in St. Louis don't want a team.  I would take one, but I know that many wouldn't.  People in St. Louis aren't going to be willing to trade the vengeance that comes with this lawsuit for a new team like Cleveland did.

2. St. Louis's lawsuit is better than the one Cleveland had for the reason's mentioned above.

3. The NFL has 32 teams divided into two 16 team conferences which are made up of 4-four team divisions.  It is perfectly symmetrical right now.  33 teams is a mess.  Having an odd number of teams means going back to one team having a bye every week.  They would also have one division with 5 teams when all the others have 4.  It just doesn't work out.

It think the talk about an expansion team is just newly discovered desperation by the NFL owners.  Kinda makes me smile. 

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18 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

The last time the NFL got sued in this situation, it was Cleveland.  The Browns had moved to Baltimore and Cleveland sued.  What the NFL had going for it at the time was the Cleveland was so hungry for football that offering it an expansion team was an easy fix to the situation.  After settling that case, the NFL put new relocation guidelines in place that were intended to, if followed, prevent them from being sued again.

Then the Rams moved to LA.  The NFL completely ignored the relocation guidelines it put in place during the Cleveland lawsuit when it allowed the Rams to move.  This fact has actually made the St. Louis lawsuit better than the one Cleveland had.  When more stringent, very logical and straight forward guidelines are blown off, the case looks better to a jury.

Now there are stories about offering St. Louis a team.  I suspect that the owners, hearing that things look dire for them, are now wanting to make it go away without actually having to pay out real money.  An expansion team requires logistics, but doesn't require the NFL to write a check.  There are several differences between this situation and the one in Cleveland that the idiot NFL owners are not considering:

1. Most people in St. Louis don't want a team.  I would take one, but I know that many wouldn't.  People in St. Louis aren't going to be willing to trade the vengeance that comes with this lawsuit for a new team like Cleveland did.

2. St. Louis's lawsuit is better than the one Cleveland had for the reason's mentioned above.

3. The NFL has 32 teams divided into two 16 team conferences which are made up of 4-four team divisions.  It is perfectly symmetrical right now.  33 teams is a mess.  Having an odd number of teams means going back to one team having a bye every week.  They would also have one division with 5 teams when all the others have 4.  It just doesn't work out.

It think the talk about an expansion team is just newly discovered desperation by the NFL owners.  Kinda makes me smile. 

Basically, what I’ve heard is that the NFL would promise a team to STL 5-10 years down the road, then add another 34th team at that point. 

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1 hour ago, cgeldmacher said:

1. Most people in St. Louis don't want a team.  I would take one, but I know that many wouldn't.  People in St. Louis aren't going to be willing to trade the vengeance that comes with this lawsuit for a new team like Cleveland did.

Wouldn't be too sure about this.  A few years ago, for sure.  People are starting to turn the corner on "F*** the NFL!" a little.  Not forgiving, but sort of slowing watching the nfl here and there. 

Also the one thing I hear the most is - Most if not all of the people who live in the city that I know, none of them trust what the city officials would do with the money they would get.  Which that reason alone they would choose another team.

 

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10 minutes ago, wgstl said:

Wouldn't be too sure about this.  A few years ago, for sure.  People are starting to turn the corner on "F*** the NFL!" a little.  Not forgiving, but sort of slowing watching the nfl here and there. 

Also the one thing I hear the most is - Most if not all of the people who live in the city that I know, none of them trust what the city would do with the money they would get.  Which that reason alone they would choose another team.

 

You are probably right about fans attending.

I will watch parts of games if nothing else is on TV and I like seeing the Chiefs lose since the owner voted for the Rams moving back to LA.

In the end the NFL will have to pay something plus an expansion team immediately or the plaintiffs will make StanK and the NFL to open the books.

The plaintiffs case is strong with the stadium deal that was made on the riverfront property.  It was a 1 billion dollar open air stadium and the Rams moved breaking the NFL guidelines.

I hope the plaintiffs say no deal and win big.

With the new soccer team I do not want the NFL competing for those fans I would rather make St. Louis the best soccer town in the country.  Maybe some of the NFL money could be used  to make that happen.

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3 hours ago, CBFan said:

You are probably right about fans attending.

I will watch parts of games if nothing else is on TV and I like seeing the Chiefs lose since the owner voted for the Rams moving back to LA.

In the end the NFL will have to pay something plus an expansion team immediately or the plaintiffs will make StanK and the NFL to open the books.

The plaintiffs case is strong with the stadium deal that was made on the riverfront property.  It was a 1 billion dollar open air stadium and the Rams moved breaking the NFL guidelines.

I hope the plaintiffs say no deal and win big.

With the new soccer team I do not want the NFL competing for those fans I would rather make St. Louis the best soccer town in the country.  Maybe some of the NFL money could be used  to make that happen.

not a soccer fan, but i agree with you the nfl can stay out of st louis enough money was spent, let stl be the soccer capitol

 

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4 hours ago, wgstl said:

Wouldn't be too sure about this.  A few years ago, for sure.  People are starting to turn the corner on "F*** the NFL!" a little.  Not forgiving, but sort of slowing watching the nfl here and there. 

Also the one thing I hear the most is - Most if not all of the people who live in the city that I know, none of them trust what the city officials would do with the money they would get.  Which that reason alone they would choose another team.

 

I know plenty of people that don’t watch and won’t change. I don’t and I never will

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15 hours ago, slufanskip said:

I know plenty of people that don’t watch and won’t change. I don’t and I never will

I know plenty of people that do watch. I do and I always will. The only person I know that doesn’t watch the NFL is my wife. However she doesn’t watch any sports. 

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I was thinking about that other football league Xsomething that opened early in 2020, had a couple of well attended games by the St. Louis franchise and then went under with the initial Covid closedowns. Any chance this concept could be revived?

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29 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

I know plenty of people that do watch. I do and I always will. The only person I know that doesn’t watch the NFL is my wife. However she doesn’t watch any sports. 

i havent watched the nfl since the first weekend the kapernick kneeling b.s. started.  i was in the room when a couple of the super bowls were on, however i remained at the poker table with friends with my back to the tv concentrating on taking my friends money not watching the game.  

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8 minutes ago, Old guy said:

I was thinking about that other football league Xsomething that opened early in 2020, had a couple of well attended games by the St. Louis franchise and then went under with the initial Covid closedowns. Any chance this concept could be revived?

image.gif.bf0b778aec0e44b1f56060e624cc1b8e.gif

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1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

I know plenty of people that do watch. I do and I always will. The only person I know that doesn’t watch the NFL is my wife. However she doesn’t watch any sports. 

Including Super Bowls I've watched probably less than 20 NFL games since Stan & the NFL sh*t on St. Louis on his way out of town w the Rams.  I used to go to a game or 2 a year and watch most Sundays.

I don't really want St. Louis to get an expansion franchise.  I'd rather get the cash.

Use the cash to revamp the Dome & convention center to attract more conventions and/or make the Enterprise Center a state of the art facility that is top notch for hockey & could lure an NBA team.

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1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

I know plenty of people that do watch. I do and I always will. The only person I know that doesn’t watch the NFL is my wife. However she doesn’t watch any sports. 

I know plenty of people that do also, though I have to say it amazes me that anyone in St. Louis would. It's like having a friend that beats you up daily but you keep hanging around with him/her because they're "fun" 

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At the same time Big East expansion has resurrected, STL's suit vs. Kroenke and the NFL is coming to a head.  The Judge ordering the discovery of financials for punitive damages purposes makes the case ripe for settlement.  This is where cases settle, ordinarily.  Add to that yesterday's ruling issuing sanctions against 4 other NFL owners, and setting an order to show cause re contempt.

The way to settle that case is the way past cities' disputes with the NFL are settled, those that lost teams, namely give St. Louis an expansion team, or better yet, an existing team.  We're all getting older.  I don't want to wait forever for an expansion team to get good.  Why wait out those growing pains, when there is a much better alternative (see below).  And it can't just be a promise of a team in 5-10 years.  First, that's way too long.  Second, it has to be an iron clad agreement that St. Louis will get a team.

I know there is militancy back there re the NFL, and rightly so.  But this really is a no brainer.  Extract as much in damages as you can get from Kroenke.  Make him pay off the Dome.  But get the team.

St. Louis is still suffering from Jilted Lover Syndrome vis-a-vis the NFL.  But please, don't screw up and look a gift horse (a team) in the mouth.  A major city requires NFL Football.  You want to be included with New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Washington, D.C., Philadelphia, San Francisco, Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, et al., not with Portland, Sacramento, Omaha, Wichita, Des Moines, Peoria ...  (Decatur once had the Staleys, the current Chicago Bears.) 

The best of all would be to get the Chargers to move to St. Louis.  LA never wanted the Chargers.  They are there as Kroenke's tenants, largely due to the ego of Dean Spanos in dealing with San Diego (where that team belongs), and also Spanos is being sued by his own sister, who is trying to force divestiture of the team.  The Chargers are good, man.  They have a lot of talent.  The problem there has been coaching, time management issues.  That coaching problem appears to have been solved.  And don't feel guilty -  because San Diego has torn down Qualcomm Stadium.  A much smaller 35,000 seat stadium is being built for San Diego State on the site.  That new stadium will be too small for the NFL.  St. Louis should have sent a delegation to Kansas City to meet with Spanos when his Chargers played the Chiefs in KC on Sept. 26, Week 3.  Spanos is from California.  While it is doubtful he would want to move to St. Louis, as noted above there are issues, and he may have to ultimately sell the team.  

Plus, the Chargers are a de facto road team for all of their home games.  They basically play 17 road games, 9 of them closer to their Costa Mesa, Orange County base.

If not the Chargers, then there are the Jacksonville Jaguars, a lousy team, but an existing team, the second 1995 expansion team, the franchise that should have gone to St. Louis, the #23 ranked TV market.  Jacksonville, Florida is #43.  The Jags are owned by Shahid Khan, of Champaign, IL, 175 miles from St. Louis.  Khan offered to buy the St. Louis Rams, but lost out to Kroenke's right of first refusal.  Had Khan gotten the Rams, I have little doubt they would still be in St. Louis today.  Khan had to sign a restrictive lease to get the Jags, which supposedly bars franchise relocation any time soon.  

The bottom line is get a team.  Use this lawsuit to force the NFL to give St. Louis a team.  The NFL appears to be willing, now.

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53 minutes ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

At the same time Big East expansion has resurrected, STL's suit vs. Kroenke and the NFL is coming to a head.  The Judge ordering the discovery of financials for punitive damages purposes makes the case ripe for settlement.  This is where cases settle, ordinarily.  Add to that yesterday's ruling issuing sanctions against 4 other NFL owners, and setting an order to show cause re contempt.

The way to settle that case is the way past cities' disputes with the NFL are settled, those that lost teams, namely give St. Louis an expansion team, or better yet, an existing team.  We're all getting older.  I don't want to wait forever for an expansion team to get good.  Why wait out those growing pains, when there is a much better alternative (see below).  And it can't just be a promise of a team in 5-10 years.  First, that's way too long.  Second, it has to be an iron clad agreement that St. Louis will get a team.

I know there is militancy back there re the NFL, and rightly so.  But this really is a no brainer.  Extract as much in damages as you can get from Kroenke.  Make him pay off the Dome.  But get the team.

St. Louis is still suffering from Jilted Lover Syndrome vis-a-vis the NFL.  But please, don't screw up and look a gift horse (a team) in the mouth.  A major city requires NFL Football.  You want to be included with New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Washington, D.C., Philadelphia, San Francisco, Phoenix, Dallas, Houston, et al., not with Portland, Sacramento, Omaha, Wichita, Des Moines, Peoria ...  (Decatur once had the Staleys, the current Chicago Bears.) 

The best of all would be to get the Chargers to move to St. Louis.  LA never wanted the Chargers.  They are there as Kroenke's tenants, largely due to the ego of Dean Spanos in dealing with San Diego (where that team belongs), and also Spanos is being sued by his own sister, who is trying to force divestiture of the team.  The Chargers are good, man.  They have a lot of talent.  The problem there has been coaching, time management issues.  That coaching problem appears to have been solved.  And don't feel guilty -  because San Diego has torn down Qualcomm Stadium.  A much smaller 35,000 seat stadium is being built for San Diego State on the site.  That new stadium will be too small for the NFL.  St. Louis should have sent a delegation to Kansas City to meet with Spanos when his Chargers played the Chiefs in KC on Sept. 26, Week 3.  Spanos is from California.  While it is doubtful he would want to move to St. Louis, as noted above there are issues, and he may have to ultimately sell the team.  

Plus, the Chargers are a de facto road team for all of their home games.  They basically play 17 road games, 9 of them closer to their Costa Mesa, Orange County base.

If not the Chargers, then there are the Jacksonville Jaguars, a lousy team, but an existing team, the second 1995 expansion team, the franchise that should have gone to St. Louis, the #23 ranked TV market.  Jacksonville, Florida is #43.  The Jags are owned by Shahid Khan, of Champaign, IL, 175 miles from St. Louis.  Khan offered to buy the St. Louis Rams, but lost out to Kroenke's right of first refusal.  Had Khan gotten the Rams, I have little doubt they would still be in St. Louis today.  Khan had to sign a restrictive lease to get the Jags, which supposedly bars franchise relocation any time soon.  

The bottom line is get a team.  Use this lawsuit to force the NFL to give St. Louis a team.  The NFL appears to be willing, now.

Spanos had a chance to move to StL - he is a CA guy.  The Jags are destined for London.

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26 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Spanos had a chance to move to StL - he is a CA guy.  The Jags are destined for London.

Spanos is being sued by his own sister to force divestiture of that team. LA did not want the Chargers. They may be available in the forseeably near future. 
 

The NFL has STL, LAC and JAX problems.  Before the "Shield" ventures across the Pond, it had better solve its STL problem, which is getting bigger with each mounting day.

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