Off topic: Screw Stan Kroenke

[someoneelse]

Who would own this St. Louis team?  Would the owner be able to leave, hence being able to hold the city/fans hostage until demands are met?  

I don't want a team if the team doesn't want to be here.  Two teams showed that they'd rather leave, and they did.  My life goes on.  

[Bay Area Billiken]

My good friend, classmate from SLU Law, and colleague, a true "Man of the People," once told me from his experience as an attorney that the two things that most concern people are:  (1) Defeating their ex (if applicable), and (2) Keeping their driver's license.  Elements in St. Louis are still at Stage 1, the Jilted Lover Syndrome.  It's been 5 years;  it's time to get over it and move forward.

St. Louis, the #23 TV market, is still a major US City, the largest metropolitan area in Missouri.  St. Louis needs NFL Football, needs its name, its views of The Arch, of Union Station, the Anheuser-Busch Brewery, et al. out there every Sunday in the Fall/Winter months.  A major league city like St. Louis belongs in the National Football League. 

The lawsuit is ripe for settlement.  This may well be St. Louis' Last Chance Saloon for the forseeable and later future re the NFL.  As a 25 year former Oakland Raiders Season Ticket Member, I know full well all about the National Football League.  Remember something known as "The Tuck" in the blizzard that Saturday night in Foxborough?  More recently I was there for NFL Referee Gene Steratore pulling out an index card in Oakland to save the Dallas Cowboys that Sunday night. 

But even with all its issues, the NFL is still the Nation's  Football League for American Football.  There is no AFL any longer;  it merged into the NFL in 1966, fully effective in 1970.  There has never been an American football league since to challenge the NFL.  Nor will there likely ever be one.  

The way these NFL lawsuits are settled is to award a team to the jilted city.  There would be more involved here, such as a monetary payout, perhaps pay off the Dome, perhaps league assistance in financing the renovation of the Dome or in building a new stadium.

But get the team in the settlement.   Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

[slufanskip]

24 minutes ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

My good friend, classmate from SLU Law, and colleague, a true "Man of the People," once told me from his experience as an attorney that the two things that most concern people are:  (1) Defeating their ex (if applicable), and (2) Keeping their driver's license.  Elements in St. Louis are still at Stage 1, the Jilted Lover Syndrome.  It's been 5 years;  it's time to get over it and move forward.

St. Louis, the #23 TV market, is still a major US City, the largest metropolitan area in Missouri.  St. Louis needs NFL Football, needs its name, its views of The Arch, of Union Station, the Anheuser-Busch Brewery, et al. out there every Sunday in the Fall/Winter months.  A major league city like St. Louis belongs in the National Football League. 

The lawsuit is ripe for settlement.  This may well be St. Louis' Last Chance Saloon for the forseeable and later future re the NFL.  As a 25 year former Oakland Raiders Season Ticket Member, I know full well all about the National Football League.  Remember something known as "The Tuck" in the blizzard that Saturday night in Foxborough?  More recently I was there for NFL Referee Gene Steratore pulling out an index card in Oakland to save the Dallas Cowboys that Sunday night. 

But even with all its issues, the NFL is still the Nation's  Football League for American Football.  There is no AFL any longer;  it merged into the NFL in 1966, fully effective in 1970.  There has never been an American football league since to challenge the NFL.  Nor will there likely ever be one.  

The way these NFL lawsuits are settled is to award a team to the jilted city.  There would be more involved here, such as a monetary payout, perhaps pay off the Dome, perhaps league assistance in financing the renovation of the Dome or in building a new stadium.

But get the team in the settlement.   Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

Sorry, I love most of your input, but you're wrong on this. St. Louis should kick the gift horse in the mouth as in all likely hood the gift horse is rabid and will most assuredly bite you later.  Baseball, Hockey, and Soccer are enough. The NFL does not make St. Louis a better city. 

[Bay Area Billiken]

1 minute ago, slufanskip said:

Sorry, I love most of your input, but you're wrong on this. St. Louis should kick the gift horse in the mouth as in all likely hood the gift horse is rabid and will most assuredly bite you later.  Baseball, Hockey, and Soccer are enough. The NFL does not make St. Louis a better city. 

Soccer is not American Football, not in this country.  It never will be during our lifetimes, if ever.

I'm not against Soccer.  St. Louis can and should have both, American Football and Soccer.  A major metropolitan area should have both.

We haven't mentioned the NBA, of which the Hawks left St. Louis in 1968.  The ABA Spirits were in St. Louis from 1974 to 1976.  I'm not a big NBA fan.  I'd take the NFL ahead of the NBA. Others might differ there.  But the NFL, even with all its issues, is still the #1 spectator sport in America.

[slufanskip]

7 minutes ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

Soccer is not American Football, not in this country.  It never will be during our lifetimes, if ever.

I'm not against Soccer.  St. Louis can and should have both, American Football and Soccer.  A major metropolitan area should have both.

We haven't mentioned the NBA, of which the Hawks left St. Louis in 1968.  The ABA Spirits were in St. Louis from 1974 to 1976.  I'm not a big NBA fan.  I'd take the NFL ahead of the NBA. Others might differ there.  But the NFL, even with all its issues, is still the #1 spectator sport in America.

I know who they are. I disagree on whether StL needs the NFL. 

[billiken_roy]

Just now, slufanskip said:

I know who they are. I disagree on whether StL needs the NFL. 

i agree with skip.   the nfl or the owner(s) concerned have f'd st louis twice now.   with the rams, the fans were coming out pretty consistently if i remember correctly until maybe the last year after the announcement they were leaving.   

so why should st louis go through the heartache again?   plus you just know it isnt ALL going to be provided.  there will be a cost of another franchise comes in.  

we dont need it.   i would much rather get the convention center paid off and renovated to maximize that operation.   i would much rather the soccer field be debt free.   clean up areas of the area  use the money to truly help the metro area not set up another rich guy to turn on us, get rich and leave again. 

[Bay Area Billiken]

5 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

i agree with skip.   the nfl or the owner(s) concerned have f'd st louis twice now.   with the rams, the fans were coming out pretty consistently if i remember correctly until maybe the last year after the announcement they were leaving.   

so why should st louis go through the heartache again?   plus you just know it isnt ALL going to be provided.  there will be a cost of another franchise comes in.  

we dont need it.   i would much rather get the convention center paid off and renovated to maximize that operation.   i would much rather the soccer field be debt free.   clean up areas of the area  use the money to truly help the metro area not set up another rich guy to turn on us, get rich and leave again. 

Get an iron clad lease like was required in Jacksonville when Khan was allowed to purchase that team.  It can be negotiated.

[billiken_roy]

Just now, Bay Area Billiken said:

Get an iron clad lease like was required in Jacksonville when Khan was allowed to purchase that team.  It can be negotiated.

we thought we had that with the rams.   

[Littlebill]

26 minutes ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

Soccer is not American Football, not in this country.  It never will be during our lifetimes, if ever.

I'm not against Soccer.  St. Louis can and should have both, American Football and Soccer.  A major metropolitan area should have both.

We haven't mentioned the NBA, of which the Hawks left St. Louis in 1968.  The ABA Spirits were in St. Louis from 1974 to 1976.  I'm not a big NBA fan.  I'd take the NFL ahead of the NBA. Others might differ there.  But the NFL, even with all its issues, is still the #1 spectator sport in America.

Not in your lifetime, maybe. There are some of us here who have 60-70 years left. I can see soccer taking over assuming the MLS continues to get better

[Bay Area Billiken]

4 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

we thought we had that with the rams.   

Roy, the issue with the lease was that clause inserted by then Rams President and entertainment lawyer John Shaw, that the Dome had to be kept in the top 25% of NFL stadia.  That's the clause Kroenke won on at arbitration that got the Dome lease converted into a year to year lease.

Don't allow some clause like that again.  

[Bay Area Billiken]

5 minutes ago, Littlebill said:

Not in your lifetime, maybe. There are some of us here who have 60-70 years left. I can see soccer taking over assuming the MLS continues to get better

Doubtful.  My nephews have me playing Fantasy Football.  My St. Louis Stallions are 5-2, tied for first in their Division.  The old 60 year old is holding his own against the young whippersnappers!

Otherwise, see the TV ratings.

[almaman]

Just now, Bay Area Billiken said:

Doubtful.

See the ratings.

Metric system will be used in USA quicker than real football overtaking american football in popularity in USA. Bidets too.

[Slu let the dogs out?]

5 minutes ago, Littlebill said:

Not in your lifetime, maybe. There are some of us here who have 60-70 years left. I can see soccer taking over assuming the MLS continues to get better

you Doogie Howser or something?

[Littlebill]

2 minutes ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

Doubtful.

See the ratings.

And you could say the same thing about baseball in 1971 - that was "only" 40 years ago

[Littlebill]

Just now, Slu let the dogs out? said:

you Doogie Howser or something?

I'm in my twenties and I imagine there are people here closer to 20 than I am

[Bay Area Billiken]

Just now, Littlebill said:

And you could say the same thing about baseball in 1971 - that was "only" 40 years ago

Football was big then too.  

For me the NFL would be #3 behind Billiken Basketball and Cardinal Baseball.  But I do watch the NFL, enjoy the competition therein.

[davidnark]

52 minutes ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

Soccer is not American Football, not in this country.  It never will be during our lifetimes, if ever.

I'm not against Soccer.  St. Louis can and should have both, American Football and Soccer.  A major metropolitan area should have both.

We haven't mentioned the NBA, of which the Hawks left St. Louis in 1968.  The ABA Spirits were in St. Louis from 1974 to 1976.  I'm not a big NBA fan.  I'd take the NFL ahead of the NBA. Others might differ there.  But the NFL, even with all its issues, is still the #1 spectator sport in America.

MLS and soccer show great popularity relative to traditional sports in the US in recent sports surveys. The TV rating numbers for soccer in the under 35 age metric are good. Also, if you combine the TV ratings from the English and Spanish broadcasts, they are respectable across all ages. The step-change in soccer in this country will come when MLS pulls off the training wheels (aka salary cap and limited DP, TAM, and other rules) and permits the ambitious owners to compete with the top 5 leagues in Europe to fill rosters. The new media contracts are under negotiation, and they are expecting the rights to the annual 48-team MLS/Liga MX to substantially drive up the value, which we hope will be invested into new roster rules. It may be another decade or so, but MLS is being positioned to eventually compete with MLB and NBA to be the 2nd most popular league in the US.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/01/morning-consult-survey-generation-alpha-favors-soccer-basketball-and-football.html 

[cgeldmacher]

For those of you that say you don't want an NFL team, think about this.  The football Cardinals left in 1987.  Most of the die hard fans of the Big Red were fans in the 70's and early 80's.  The St. Louis Rams were in their prime in the early 2000's.  Many of the people who packed the Dome during the Ram's successful run here were a generation removed from the fans that remembered Bill Bidwell leaving with the team.  When that younger crowd was in the Dome cheering on the Greatest Show on Turf, they could care less about the fact that old fart Big Red fans felt jilted by the NFL and Bill Bidwell.

Now, flash forward to us getting a new team in a year or two.  I don't think it will be any different.  Sure, there will be some, like several on this board, that will stand on principles and not ever attend another NFL game, just like those old Big Red fans.  However, the younger generation won't care at all about it and will attend games if a good product is being put out on the field.

[AnkielBreakers]

Regardless of soccer, we have learned two times that St. Louis is a bad fit for an NFL team.  Either the team isn’t good and the fan viewership is down, or the owner seeks higher profits/sales margin elsewhere (LA). We would be fools to let another tax dollar be taken away from other ventures. I think the lawyers on this case should take as much money out of the NFL as possible, and the city should use it to cover their expenses.

[Bay Area Billiken]

13 minutes ago, davidnark said:

MLS and soccer show great popularity relative to traditional sports in the US in recent sports surveys. The TV rating numbers for soccer in the under 35 age metric are good. Also, if you combine the TV ratings from the English and Spanish broadcasts, they are respectable across all ages. The step-change in soccer in this country will come when MLS pulls off the training wheels (aka salary cap and limited DP, TAM, and other rules) and permits the ambitious owners to compete with the top 5 leagues in Europe to fill rosters. The new media contracts are under negotiation, and they are expecting the rights to the annual 48-team MLS/Liga MX to substantially drive up the value, which we hope will be invested into new roster rules. It may be another decade or so, but MLS is being positioned to eventually compete with MLB and NBA to be the 2nd most popular league in the US.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/01/morning-consult-survey-generation-alpha-favors-soccer-basketball-and-football.html 

I've been told the MLS is considered at 3rd Tier European level.  Has that changed?  Really?  

There is no way, as in none, that the San Jose Earthquakes are ever going to be at the fan level as the San Francisco 49ers, or the Las Vegas Raiders for that matter.  No one in my sphere, including my generation and the generations below virtually ever even talk about the Earthquakes.  I won't say never (Bill Bidwill once said, "Never say never.") given the continued presence of local product Chris Wondolowski on the Earthquakes.  (I coached his kid brother in CYO Basketball and know his Mom and Dad.)  Once in a blue moon Wondo's presence on the Earthquakes' roster spawns a conversation.

Comparing the NFL to the MLS is comparing apples and oranges, in my humble opinion.

[Brighton]

14 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

For those of you that say you don't want an NFL team, think about this.  The football Cardinals left in 1987.  Most of the die hard fans of the Big Red were fans in the 70's and early 80's.  The St. Louis Rams were in their prime in the early 2000's.  Many of the people who packed the Dome during the Ram's successful run here were a generation removed from the fans that remembered Bill Bidwell leaving with the team.  When that younger crowd was in the Dome cheering on the Greatest Show on Turf, they could care less about the fact that old fart Big Red fans felt jilted by the NFL and Bill Bidwell.

Now, flash forward to us getting a new team in a year or two.  I don't think it will be any different.  Sure, there will be some, like several on this board, that will stand on principles and not ever attend another NFL game, just like those old Big Red fans.  However, the younger generation won't care at all about it and will attend games if a good product is being put out on the field.

Except Bidwill wanted to stay and didn't blowtorch the town on the way out. That was all on the perpetually incompetent city and county.  Not to mention the internet and social media didn't exist in those days, so the memo along with Demoff lying his ass off will be on the web forever. To say the town has had it with them is an understatement.

[slufanskip]

4 minutes ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

I've been told the MLS is considered at 3rd Tier European level.  Has that changed?  Really?  

There is no way, as in none, that the San Jose Earthquakes are ever going to be at the fan level as the San Francisco 49ers, or the Las Vegas Raiders for that matter.  No one in my sphere, including my generation and the generations below virtually ever even talk about the Earthquakes.  I won't say never (Bill Bidwill once said, "Never say never.") given the continued presence of local product Chris Wondolowski on the Earthquakes.  (I coached his kid brother in CYO Basketball and know his Mom and Dad.)  Once in a blue moon Wondo's presence on the Earthquakes' roster spawns a conversation.

Comparing the NFL to the MLS is comparing apples and oranges, in my humble opinion.

And today, that's very accurate. However, 30 years from now? 50 years from now? In 1960 no one, literally no one thought the NFL would become more popular than MLB, but it has. I'm not soccer will, however, the gap will decrease decade by decade. 

The MLS is not equal to a 3rd tier European league. Unless 3rd tier means 3rd best. 

[wgstl]

 

 

 

 

[Bay Area Billiken]

Where is the MLS considered vis-a-vis the European leagues?

I'm not a big professional soccer fan, do peruse occasionally.  I know there's the English Premier League, and teams can be relegated into the league below, like a AAA league, and isn't there one below that?

I'd like to have that relegation system in MLB.  That is a soccer-centric idea I do support.

 

[Billiken Rich]

2 minutes ago, Bay Area Billiken said:

I'd like to have that relegation system in MLB. 

 

That would be awesome!