HoosierPal Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 This is what TeamBlue is all about. BLIKNS, SLUMS81, NashvilleBilliken and 1 other like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 That was a horrendous performance by SLU and yet somehow a worse performance by the refs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 Pollard is a great ref, like it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLUMS81 Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 I’m sure the guys work their tails off in practice. We have been competitive against teams with our level of talent. We held our own (and then some) for the first 10 minutes. Dayton then woke up and methodically dismantled us - basically better than we are at every position. And unless I am wrong, Dayton didn’t have a single Senior on the court. Our coaching staff has not forgotten that defense is important. We simply do not have an adequate inside presence at this time. The only way for our younger bigs to genuinely improve is by giving them lots of meaningful game playing time - something that TF has never done and which has produced the results we are seeing. willie likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thatskablamo Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 7 minutes ago, SLUMS81 said: I’m sure the guys work their tails off in practice. We have been competitive against teams with our level of talent. We held our own (and then some) for the first 10 minutes. Dayton then woke up and methodically dismantled us - basically better than we are at every position. And unless I am wrong, Dayton didn’t have a single Senior on the court. Our coaching staff has not forgotten that defense is important. We simply do not have an adequate inside presence at this time. The only way for our younger bigs to genuinely improve is by giving them lots of meaningful game playing time - something that TF has never done and which has produced the results we are seeing. All of UD’s seniors are in the stands… blue hair font… pakapablo likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 18 minutes ago, SLUMS81 said: I’m sure the guys work their tails off in practice. We have been competitive against teams with our level of talent. We held our own (and then some) for the first 10 minutes. Dayton then woke up and methodically dismantled us - basically better than we are at every position. And unless I am wrong, Dayton didn’t have a single Senior on the court. Our coaching staff has not forgotten that defense is important. We simply do not have an adequate inside presence at this time. The only way for our younger bigs to genuinely improve is by giving them lots of meaningful game playing time - something that TF has never done and which has produced the results we are seeing. you are watching different games than me. the fundamental and mental mistakes we consistently make game after game tells me either or both 1. we dont practive defense 2. our players dont understand defense. both of those choices reinforce my belief ford is a horrible practice and development coach. there is no excuse. for those of you saying our players are not athletic enough, i ask, "is kevin lisch a better athlete than larry hughes II? is kevin lisch a better athlete than kellen thames? what about medley, meadows, parker? the answer is no. yet kevin was game after game one of the best defenders the billikens ever had. defense is fundamentals, focus and effort. imo it appears the players just dont care about defense and our coaching staff sure as hell doesnt care. i am sure they give lip service, and insist in huddles play defense. but what is being done in practice to learn the technical aspects of defense and change the mindset of the players on defense? time to fire ford. he is a fail. recruiting no longer is a priority for coaching. Coaching is what matters. fire ford. TRN, Soderball and TheA_Bomb like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soderball Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 11 minutes ago, billiken_roy said: you are watching different games than me. the fundamental and mental mistakes we consistently make game after game tells me either or both 1. we dont practive defense 2. our players dont understand defense. both of those choices reinforce my belief ford is a horrible practice and development coach. there is no excuse. for those of you saying our players are not athletic enough, i ask, "is kevin lisch a better athlete than larry hughes II? is kevin lisch a better athlete than kellen thames? what about medley, meadows, parker? the answer is no. yet kevin was game after game one of the best defenders the billikens ever had. defense is fundamentals, focus and effort. imo it appears the players just dont care about defense and our coaching staff sure as hell doesnt care. i am sure they give lip service, and insist in huddles play defense. but what is being done in practice to learn the technical aspects of defense and change the mindset of the players on defense? time to fire ford. he is a fail. recruiting no longer is a priority for coaching. Coaching is what matters. fire ford. Kellen Thames is proof that what you are saying is true. He has the body to play at a very high level; but just makes constant mistakes. Did you see him pound the ball on the court after he laid back into the sidelines and gave up a turnover rather than get the jump ball(which we would have recovered) ?? That was a moment of pure frustration and he needs to be taught to play smarter. Not happening with this lineup of suits. Separately though, IMO.. Stef and Bruce are just bad. They don't have a place on this roster and will take way too long to develop to justify their roster spot or having to put up with the garbage we are watching. Bringing them here was an absurd move on CTF's part. Okoro and Forrester were lightyears ahead of this; and even they weren't adequate for a Tournament-level team. longtimelistenerfirsttimec likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 55 minutes ago, billiken_roy said: you are watching different games than me. the fundamental and mental mistakes we consistently make game after game tells me either or both 1. we dont practive defense 2. our players dont understand defense. both of those choices reinforce my belief ford is a horrible practice and development coach. there is no excuse. for those of you saying our players are not athletic enough, i ask, "is kevin lisch a better athlete than larry hughes II? is kevin lisch a better athlete than kellen thames? what about medley, meadows, parker? the answer is no. yet kevin was game after game one of the best defenders the billikens ever had. defense is fundamentals, focus and effort. imo it appears the players just dont care about defense and our coaching staff sure as hell doesnt care. i am sure they give lip service, and insist in huddles play defense. but what is being done in practice to learn the technical aspects of defense and change the mindset of the players on defense? time to fire ford. he is a fail. recruiting no longer is a priority for coaching. Coaching is what matters. fire ford. Lisch was absolutely a better athlete than Hughes II and Meadows. Hughes is not a great athlete. He's been over-rated on this board because his dad is rightfully a beloved figure in SLU history. Also, Lisch came to SLU as a very fundamentally sound player. It's not like Sodie magically transformed him into that. The biggest problem is that it's a poorly constructed roster lacking talent. Not enough good basketball players - it's that simple. dlarry, slufan13, longtimelistenerfirsttimec and 3 others like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soderball Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 33 minutes ago, HoosierPal said: This is what TeamBlue is all about. No; that's what the Billikens and St Louis are all about. Dr Bird, johnbj14, TheA_Bomb and 1 other like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgstl Posted March 6 Author Share Posted March 6 I'm not a "team blue" hater, but that phrase cannot be used with this team in anyway, shape or form. Team blue is associated with tough defenses. Its like spitting on a grave. OkieBilliken and slufan13 like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73Billiken Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 The lack of defense with this team unfortunately is a given for whatever reason, however why on earth did they not try to feed the post with Ezewiro and let him go one-on-one vs Holmes. The spin move that Brad put on Holmes was classic and would have put Holmes either playing with multiple fouls or on the bench being replaced with a less skilled center. Bruce Zhang & SVB don't have the moves yet that Ezewiro has. The shoot-out strategy with little to no defense against a team like Dayton was not going to lead to a good result. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soderball Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 5 minutes ago, 73Billiken said: The lack of defense with this team unfortunately is a given for whatever reason, however why on earth did they not try to feed the post with Ezewiro and let him go one-on-one vs Holmes. The spin move that Brad put on Holmes was classic and would have put Holmes either playing with multiple fouls or on the bench being replaced with a less skilled center. Bruce Zhang & SVB don't have the moves yet that Ezewiro has. The shoot-out strategy with little to no defense against a team like Dayton was not going to lead to a good result. They did. Ezewiro tires out after about 5 minutes of play. You are watching him, right? Ford was yelling at him(again) about not running the floor. I've NEVER seen a guy with the kind of stamina issues Ezewiro has. I'm still guessing it has to be health related as even Big Cozy is running the floor better than Brad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 1 hour ago, billiken_roy said: you are watching different games than me. the fundamental and mental mistakes we consistently make game after game tells me either or both 1. we dont practive defense 2. our players dont understand defense. both of those choices reinforce my belief ford is a horrible practice and development coach. there is no excuse. for those of you saying our players are not athletic enough, i ask, "is kevin lisch a better athlete than larry hughes II? is kevin lisch a better athlete than kellen thames? what about medley, meadows, parker? the answer is no. yet kevin was game after game one of the best defenders the billikens ever had. defense is fundamentals, focus and effort. imo it appears the players just dont care about defense and our coaching staff sure as hell doesnt care. i am sure they give lip service, and insist in huddles play defense. but what is being done in practice to learn the technical aspects of defense and change the mindset of the players on defense? time to fire ford. he is a fail. recruiting no longer is a priority for coaching. Coaching is what matters. fire ford. Lisch is a way better athlete than most of those guys. I guess maybe Thames and Parker could beat him in some specific measurables but he still has better body control and strength than either of them, and I'm sure depending on which other categories you included, there would be more. I'm not sure how to measure it wholistically - I do know that he would be by far the best player on this team and he's an outstanding all-around athlete. Medley and Meadows aren't even close in terms of athleticism. Gremio14 likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soderball Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 5 minutes ago, Pistol said: Lisch is a way better athlete than most of those guys. I guess maybe Thames and Parker could beat him in some specific measurables but he still has better body control and strength than either of them, and I'm sure depending on which other categories you included, there would be more. I'm not sure how to measure it wholistically - I do know that he would be by far the best player on this team and he's an outstanding all-around athlete. Medley and Meadows aren't even close in terms of athleticism. If we're talking Lisch the only guy on this roster who should be in the discussion comparison is Parker; and Lisch is much better at pretty much everything, especially defense. Parker is a legit D1 talent and a stone-cold scorer. We have a lot of non-D1 talent/skills on this roster which is causing the nightmare we are watching. the 2023-2024 recruiting class of six(effectively 2 with Dalger, Meadows being gone and Magassa being unable to play, and now Curcic hurt) has been an utter ruination. This class is so bad that it is going to make us shell up everything needed to ditch Travis Ford. This is the kind of horrific failure it takes to actually get fired by SLU. All of these guys can go and it would make zero difference to this program. If anyone wants to ask a legit Q down at Humphreys to CTF they should ask how he came up with this group of guys. Pistol likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 1 hour ago, SLUMS81 said: I’m sure the guys work their tails off in practice. We have been competitive against teams with our level of talent. We held our own (and then some) for the first 10 minutes. Dayton then woke up and methodically dismantled us - basically better than we are at every position. And unless I am wrong, Dayton didn’t have a single Senior on the court. Our coaching staff has not forgotten that defense is important. We simply do not have an adequate inside presence at this time. The only way for our younger bigs to genuinely improve is by giving them lots of meaningful game playing time - something that TF has never done and which has produced the results we are seeing. I don't see any evidence of hard work in practice. They're not just bad on defense, they're lazy and unprepared. Holmes sliced through the paint and instead of moving their feet, guys move their arms and reach in on him. Brea coasted down the floor in transition without a defender within 25 feet. There are just basic defensive principles and scouting notes that either aren't being taught or are being completely ignored, because they certainly aren't evident in the game. The coaches and players deserve no excuses for what we're seeing. This is easily the worst defensive SLU team in my lifetime and I would be shocked if there were a worse defensive unit in SLU MBB history. Bizziken, TheA_Bomb, billikenblue and 1 other like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Bird Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 3 minutes ago, Pistol said: I don't see any evidence of hard work in practice. They're not just bad on defense, they're lazy and unprepared. Holmes sliced through the paint and instead of moving their feet, guys move their arms and reach in on him. Brea coasted down the floor in transition without a defender within 25 feet. There are just basic defensive principles and scouting notes that either aren't being taught or are being completely ignored, because they certainly aren't evident in the game. The coaches and players deserve no excuses for what we're seeing. This is easily the worst defensive SLU team in my lifetime and I would be shocked if there were a worse defensive unit in SLU MBB history. By the end of the game, the TV announcers were stunned by the futility of our defense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
73Billiken Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 14 minutes ago, Soderball said: They did. Ezewiro tires out after about 5 minutes of play. You are watching him, right? Ford was yelling at him(again) about not running the floor. I've NEVER seen a guy with the kind of stamina issues Ezewiro has. I'm still guessing it has to be health related as even Big Cozy is running the floor better than Brad. Yes, I did watch him from the notorious section 111 (home of the guy that was thrown out of the arena). Ezewiro plays most of the game at the top of the key looking to distribute the ball. No danger of Holmes fouling out from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 Just now, Dr Bird said: By the end of the game, the TV announcers were stunned by the futility of our defense. It's amazing. The same pattern plays out every game. In the first few minutes, they dump their pregame notes ("This team has dealt with so many injuries, bad luck, blah blah blah"). Then midway through the second half, they're completely exasperated by how bad the defense is. Duquesne's crew was the funniest: "They can't get in front of anybody!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soderball Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 Just now, 73Billiken said: Yes, I did watch him from the notorious section 111 (home of the guy that was thrown out of the arena). Ezewiro plays most of the game at the top of the key looking to distribute the ball. No danger of Holmes fouling out from there. That's because of the fatigue issue. I've watched him argue with TF about going back into the game. (Ford was talking to him, assumably trying to put him back in, and then made an absolutely anguished, pained expression at BE..) I've also watched him huff and puff like the wolf down the court; walk around out there; then just grab a guy on a play that there is no way Ezewiro makes normally. Still convinced he did this to stop play and get out of the game. If you watch; at the first part of the game and start of 2nd half we go to Ezewiro every time and he makes some nice post moves, slams, layups.. then he just disappears. It's a fatigue issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARon Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 2 minutes ago, Pistol said: Lisch is a way better athlete than most of those guys. I guess maybe Thames and Parker could beat him in some specific measurables but he still has better body control and strength than either of them, and I'm sure depending on which other categories you included, there would be more. I'm not sure how to measure it wholistically - I do know that he would be by far the best player on this team and he's an outstanding all-around athlete. Medley and Meadows aren't even close in terms of athleticism. Lisch is/was a better athlete than he gets credit for. And let's be honest that's really just a matter of the way US sports fans view athleticism through their preconceived notions re: skin tone. That being said, whether or not one group of guys is more athletic is not the point. It is the difference between recruiting athletes and recruiting basketball players. Ford has throughout his time at SLU recruited athletes first and foremost. Now that can work if you and your staff can coach guys up, especially if you make a point of recruiting athletes that have that desire to learn and grow. But Ford and his staff have shown they are not that group. Guys gets a bit better under them, unlike Crews where players would finish a season the exact same as they started, but not significantly so. And without calling anyone out, it's clear that some of the athletes they recruited had no desire to be coached or improve themselves. At the risk of preparing to fight the last war....at this point SLU is better off hiring someone that can coach up a bunch of 2*s they've recruited/NILed versus someone who can recruit the big names. With the NIL era, the game is moving in the exact opposite direction of Ford's strengths. Pistol and ACE like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 Just now, ARon said: Lisch is/was a better athlete than he gets credit for. And let's be honest that's really just a matter of the way US sports fans view athleticism through their preconceived notions re: skin tone. That being said, whether or not one group of guys is more athletic is not the point. It is the difference between recruiting athletes and recruiting basketball players. Ford has throughout his time at SLU recruited athletes first and foremost. Now that can work if you and your staff can coach guys up, especially if you make a point of recruiting athletes that have that desire to learn and grow. But Ford and his staff have shown they are not that group. Guys gets a bit better under them, unlike Crews where players would finish a season the exact same as they started, but not significantly so. And without calling anyone out, it's clear that some of the athletes they recruited had no desire to be coached or improve themselves. At the risk of preparing to fight the last war....at this point SLU is better off hiring someone that can coach up a bunch of 2*s they've recruited/NILed versus someone who can recruit the big names. With the NIL era, the game is moving in the exact opposite direction of Ford's strengths. The constant revolving door of freshmen big men is a clear sign Ford doesn't prioritize individual player growth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OkieBilliken Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 1 minute ago, billikenfan05 said: The constant revolving door of freshmen big men is a clear sign Ford doesn't prioritize individual player growth. or worse, he makes an incorrect assessment after working with them for a year that they lack the ability to improve and nudges them out the door. He's only been proven wrong about 10 times already. SLUMS81 likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 1 hour ago, ACE said: Lisch was absolutely a better athlete than Hughes II and Meadows. Hughes is not a great athlete. He's been over-rated on this board because his dad is rightfully a beloved figure in SLU history. Also, Lisch came to SLU as a very fundamentally sound player. It's not like Sodie magically transformed him into that. The biggest problem is that it's a poorly constructed roster lacking talent. Not enough good basketball players - it's that simple. Agree with this all the way. I'm really not sure how many D1 guys we have. ACE likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JettFlight5 Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 12 minutes ago, Dr Bird said: By the end of the game, the TV announcers were stunned by the futility of our defense. Now they see things from our perspective. Defense is so much about effort and communication. Let's just say those two elements are lacking a bit. Dr Bird likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 We have a roster that is not talented and doesn't make sense positionally. willie likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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