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USC and UCLA to Big 10???


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45 minutes ago, slu72 said:

While I think changing the tournament from it’s David v Goliath premise would seriously hurt college hoops and there would be a backlash from fans, if the power schools want it to happen they’ll find a way to get it done. They’re greedy SOB’s and want the lion’s share of that pot of gold. 

No question that they are greedy SOB’s. However, to do this, they must convince the TV networks who they are getting the money from that the TV networks will make more money out of this (the TV networks most assuredly expect a return on their money, otherwise they won’t give the power schools that money.) is blowing up the NCAA tournament the way to do this in basketball? Not sure a good case can be made for this. The Power conferences will have to show the tv networks how this makes the tv networks more money.

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-if tv ratings are part of this remember that the back to back final appearances for Butler were not as highly rated as many other championship games so might give the bigs more confidence in going it alone

-in the Tournament I watch the little guys (non P5/6) hoping they beat the bigs but I don't know how many watch like that, I wouldn't be surprised if more on this site also do this versus the percent of UNC/KU/UK etc fanbases watching like this, pure speculation on my part

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2 hours ago, Pistol said:

Help me out here - SMU is already in the AAC. What am I missing?

I think the fourth of the initial Pac 12 group to talk to the Big 12 was Utah (along with ASU, Zona, and Colorado). Oregon and Washington are obviously the top targets left in the league, so they're also rumored to be pursued by a conference or multiple conferences.

Sorry meant ACC.  Typo.

 

 

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On 7/14/2022 at 5:55 AM, Lord Elrond said:

I don’t think anything happens until 2032. Every discussion I’ve ever seen says the best thing that the NCAA basketball tournament has going for it is the Cinderella story line, of how any team can beat any other. The bracket makes for great betting too, which is also part of the future of sports in general. I don’t see how the Power conferences going off on their own will work, too many fans will not tolerate it by not watching. The TV networks will not give them more money for lesser audiences. What works in football to maximize revenue won’t work in basketball, and I think the big power conferences are smart enough to figure that out.

Unfortunately people like to hear about the Cinderella story but not watch the Cinderella story.  The pie is going to get bigger and the number feasting will get smaller.  The winning network won't have to be convinced because they will be the ones leading the way.  One thing to also consider is our definition of a Cinderella will change.  What if the new Cinderella is Oregon St. that has a significantly larger alumni base than St. Peter's.  This is going to happen by 2032.  

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22 minutes ago, TJHawk said:

Unfortunately people like to hear about the Cinderella story but not watch the Cinderella story.  The pie is going to get bigger and the number feasting will get smaller.  The winning network won't have to be convinced because they will be the ones leading the way.  One thing to also consider is our definition of a Cinderella will change.  What if the new Cinderella is Oregon St. that has a significantly larger alumni base than St. Peter's.  This is going to happen by 2032.  

I don't have the numbers to back this up but I think the opening games of the tournament are the most watched. 

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56 minutes ago, willie said:

I don't have the numbers to back this up but I think the opening games of the tournament are the most watched. 

First weekend averaged 9.12 million with the national championship game viewed by 18.1 million.  Interesting the highest rated first weekend game was Duke vs. Michigan St.  Followed by Michigan vs. Tennessee and Kansas vs. Creighton.  

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18 hours ago, TJHawk said:

First weekend averaged 9.12 million with the national championship game viewed by 18.1 million.  Interesting the highest rated first weekend game was Duke vs. Michigan St.  Followed by Michigan vs. Tennessee and Kansas vs. Creighton.  

This is an apple and oranges comparison. The first weekend games run all day and start on Thursday so people are working and doing other life things.  The championship game gets prime time slot and my guess is those others you mentioned were not bad slots either.

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10 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

This is an apple and oranges comparison. The first weekend games run all day and start on Thursday so people are working and doing other life things.  The championship game gets prime time slot and my guess is those others you mentioned were not bad slots either.

A lot of men are doing other life things like resting their balls.

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On 7/15/2022 at 1:09 PM, TJHawk said:

First weekend averaged 9.12 million with the national championship game viewed by 18.1 million.  Interesting the highest rated first weekend game was Duke vs. Michigan St.  Followed by Michigan vs. Tennessee and Kansas vs. Creighton.  

The other way to look at it is that 1 game drew 18.1 million viewers, but 291 million people total viewed those 32 games. 

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On 7/15/2022 at 11:56 AM, TJHawk said:

Unfortunately people like to hear about the Cinderella story but not watch the Cinderella story.  The pie is going to get bigger and the number feasting will get smaller.  The winning network won't have to be convinced because they will be the ones leading the way.  One thing to also consider is our definition of a Cinderella will change.  What if the new Cinderella is Oregon St. that has a significantly larger alumni base than St. Peter's.  This is going to happen by 2032.  

Weren’t the 2 Butler finals 2 of the most viewed?

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On 7/16/2022 at 3:06 PM, Lord Elrond said:

The other way to look at it is that 1 game drew 18.1 million viewers, but 291 million people total viewed those 32 games. 

I read somewhere that the first round was 3 million people per game. So, the first round is 96 Million. Even if half the viewers watched all of the games, that is nearly 50 million. 

As to the greater issue, if the blue bloods and P5 want to start a separate tournament with just those big conferences, then ok, I won’t watch it. I doubt anyone who went to a smaller program will. That is a massive amount of the population. It could backfire on them. If the other 200 programs kept the Tournament, it could easily become the thing that takes center stage every year, and the tables could completely turn on the big programs. We will see.

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On 7/15/2022 at 11:56 AM, TJHawk said:

Unfortunately people like to hear about the Cinderella story but not watch the Cinderella story.  The pie is going to get bigger and the number feasting will get smaller.  The winning network won't have to be convinced because they will be the ones leading the way.  One thing to also consider is our definition of a Cinderella will change.  What if the new Cinderella is Oregon St. that has a significantly larger alumni base than St. Peter's.  This is going to happen by 2032.  

This is just wrong.  A lot of people watched the later round St Peters games.  If a non-Power 5 Cinderella makes a run & goes a against a traditional basketball powerhouse it is ratings gold.  It is telling that Purdue / St Peters was the most watched Sweet 16 game and UNC / St Peters was the most watched Elite 8 game.

 

 

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Do I think that the big boys will get ultimately their way?  Yes.  Will it take a longer than ten years?  Yes.  The Cinderella paradigm is the cornerstone of March Madness.  It's firmly embedded in college basketball culture.  Cultural shifts take decades.  And the Hall of Fame coaches most closely identified with the blue bloods will likely be all gone within the next decade.  That makes their bargaining position even weaker.

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54 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

Do I think that the big boys will get ultimately their way?  Yes.  Will it take a longer than ten years?  Yes.  The Cinderella paradigm is the cornerstone of March Madness.  It's firmly embedded in college basketball culture.  Cultural shifts take decades.  And the Hall of Fame coaches most closely identified with the blue bloods will likely be all gone within the next decade.  That makes their bargaining position even weaker.

I agree they will get their way, but I disagree that Fox and ESPN will sit by and watch CBS/Turner run the tournament for the next decade without taking some action.  The new power conference structure will get the College Football Playoff as they want it, and then they will go after the NCAA Tourney.  Maybe 5 years out?

You may know this, are leagues legally required to send a champion to the NCAA hoops tourney?  I googled this issue and couldn't find an answer.  

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5 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

I agree they will get their way, but I disagree that Fox and ESPN will sit by and watch CBS/Turner run the tournament for the next decade without taking some action.  The new power conference structure will get the College Football Playoff as they want it, and then they will go after the NCAA Tourney.  Maybe 5 years out?

You may know this, are leagues legally required to send a champion to the NCAA hoops tourney?  I googled this issue and couldn't find an answer.  

-goes to our National Championship, from every account I have read we went to the more prestigous tournament that year and it was the NIT, if the bigs break from the NCAA likely there will be two teams that claim to be national champions

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6 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

I agree they will get their way, but I disagree that Fox and ESPN will sit by and watch CBS/Turner run the tournament for the next decade without taking some action.  The new power conference structure will get the College Football Playoff as they want it, and then they will go after the NCAA Tourney.  Maybe 5 years out?

You may know this, are leagues legally required to send a champion to the NCAA hoops tourney?  I googled this issue and couldn't find an answer.  

Not a league but a team. Marquette I believe was independent back then. The only one I knew of. 

https://spectrumnews1.com/wi/milwaukee/sports/2021/03/18/looking-back--when-marquette-turned-down-an-ncaa-bid-

I was in HS back then and attended that NIT game.

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2 hours ago, MusicCityBilliken said:

Not a league but a team. Marquette I believe was independent back then. The only one I knew of. 

https://spectrumnews1.com/wi/milwaukee/sports/2021/03/18/looking-back--when-marquette-turned-down-an-ncaa-bid-

I was in HS back then and attended that NIT game.

i believe the ncaa changed the rules the next year and required teams to play in their tourney if invited, effectively ending the nit as a major championship

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1 hour ago, dennis_w said:

i believe the ncaa changed the rules the next year and required teams to play in their tourney if invited, effectively ending the nit as a major championship

The question is still out there. So the NCAA says you have to come if invited. If the school/league says no thanks, what happens next?  The NCAA suspends the league from the tourney?  Kicks them out of the NCAA?  That might be exactly what that league wants. 

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22 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

The question is still out there. So the NCAA says you have to come if invited. If the school/league says no thanks, what happens next?  The NCAA suspends the league from the tourney?  Kicks them out of the NCAA?  That might be exactly what that league wants. 

If a school/league opts out the NCAA would just award an additional at-large.

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I just saw where ND’s deal is up after ‘24. They are seeking $75mil/yr to reman independent. I think they may not be that relevant anymore to demand those kind of $’s. 

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1 hour ago, slu72 said:

I just saw where ND’s deal is up after ‘24. They are seeking $75mil/yr to reman independent. I think they may not be that relevant anymore to demand those kind of $’s. 

I suppose that depends upon what sources they are appealing to for the money.

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33 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

But what happens to the school that opted out?  That is my question. 

The Ivy League opted out of having a 2020-21 basketball season, and there were no NCAA repercussions. Schools opt out of the NCAA-operated NIT Tournament all the time, without repercussions. It's easy to envision circumstances where a school shooting or natural disaster results in a team opting out, for which the NCAA seems unlikely to impose any sort of punishment.

So the answer for what happens to a school that opts out might be: nothing.

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