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Big East expansion coming?


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Just now, Cowboy II said:

-wow, I realize there are two sides to every coin but I am shocked folks on here are thinking the BEast wouldn't be a GREAT spot for us, if you want to be the best you play the best and while the BEast may not be the #1 conf it is wwaayy above the A10 in prestige, real or imagined

-perhaps New Years Eve is a huge deal to them and they don't want to go to a SLU game that day/evening/night

Its a no-brainer.....

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28 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

 One and done players don't usually stay home, despite their rhetoric.

Since 2019 50% of the top 10 classes has stayed home or in the state of their high school. 

 

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2 hours ago, cheeseman said:

A middling BE team makes the Dance in most years.

Except Butler and X have made it less as a member of the Big East than they did in the decade leading up to joining the Big East. Creighton has done about the same. All 3 have made the tourney equal to or less than 50% of the time since they joined the big east. 

I think we are on the verge of an era where we make it more than that in the A10.

Again, if we spend to compete for championships in the Big East it's a no-brainer. If we aren't going to then I'm not sure it's a great move as far as basketball team success. 

 

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11 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

Except Butler and X have made it less as a member of the Big East than they did in the decade leading up to joining the Big East. Creighton has done about the same. All 3 have made the tourney equal to or less than 50% of the time since they joined the big east. 

I think we are on the verge of an era where we make it more than that in the A10.

Again, if we spend to compete for championships in the Big East it's a no-brainer. If we aren't going to then I'm not sure it's a great move as far as basketball team success. 

 

X made five straight NCAA tournaments with an Elite Eight and a Sweet Sixteen upon joining the Big East.  X's issue is  Mack leaving.  Butler's issues have been from Stevens and Holtmann leaving.  Both schools would have been dealing with the same issues had the stayed in the A10.

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13 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

Except Butler and X have made it less as a member of the Big East than they did in the decade leading up to joining the Big East. Creighton has done about the same. All 3 have made the tourney equal to or less than 50% of the time since they joined the big east. 

I think we are on the verge of an era where we make it more than that in the A10.

Again, if we spend to compete for championships in the Big East it's a no-brainer. If we aren't going to then I'm not sure it's a great move as far as basketball team success. 

 

I don't think Butler is a fair case. The Butler before the Big East was coached by Brad Stevens. The Butler after was coached by a few different guys. A fair question is whether Butler could have survived Brad Stevens leaving if they weren't in the Big East. They may have ended up like George Mason reliving the glory days of back to back championship games. Instead, they've come out OK.

I doubt you'd find a serious Creighton fan anywhere that regrets going to the Big East. They've had a 2 seed in the dance, a sweet 16 and conference championships since going. Some things are just bigger than rolling through the Valley and getting a 9 seed in the dance.

Xavier is an interesting one but even with the fewer NCAA tourney appearances, I'd bet the vast majority of their fans don't regret leaving. 

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4 minutes ago, kshoe said:

I don't think Butler is a fair case. The Butler before the Big East was coached by Brad Stevens. The Butler after was coached by a few different guys. A fair question is whether Butler could have survived Brad Stevens leaving if they weren't in the Big East. They may have ended up like George Mason reliving the glory days of back to back championship games. Instead, they've come out OK.

I doubt you'd find a serious Creighton fan anywhere that regrets going to the Big East. They've had a 2 seed in the dance, a sweet 16 and conference championships since going. Some things are just bigger than rolling through the Valley and getting a 9 seed in the dance.

Xavier is an interesting one but even with the fewer NCAA tourney appearances, I'd bet the vast majority of their fans don't regret leaving. 

After 30 years, Xavier finally got a coach who is merely average.  It had to happen sometime.

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Since joining the Big East Xavier has earned 12 tournament credits, Butler 9 and Creighton 7.  The only Big East team that has earned more tournament credits than the three new members in that time period is Villanova with 23. 

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Agree with KShoe.  If you polled the fans at Creighton, Xavier, and Butler and asked them if they are happy to be in the BigEast or feel they should have stayed in their former conference, does anyone really think the results would be any less than 98% or more saying they are happy to be in the BigEast?  Again, it's a no brainer.  If we don't want it, other schools will seize the opportunity and then we will be crying in our milk that we didn't do everything possible to get in.

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12 minutes ago, kshoe said:

I don't think Butler is a fair case. The Butler before the Big East was coached by Brad Stevens. The Butler after was coached by a few different guys. A fair question is whether Butler could have survived Brad Stevens leaving if they weren't in the Big East. They may have ended up like George Mason reliving the glory days of back to back championship games. Instead, they've come out OK.

I doubt you'd find a serious Creighton fan anywhere that regrets going to the Big East. They've had a 2 seed in the dance, a sweet 16 and conference championships since going. Some things are just bigger than rolling through the Valley and getting a 9 seed in the dance.

Xavier is an interesting one but even with the fewer NCAA tourney appearances, I'd bet the vast majority of their fans don't regret leaving. 

Xavier was a #1 seed just a couple years ago, which is something I doubt happens without them moving to the Big East. Attendance is still strong and expectations haven’t dipped. I think you’re right that nobody who joined the Big East would give a second thought to going back.

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Example:

In 3 years as Head Coach at Butler in the Big East, Chris Holtmann made 3 NCAA Tourneys, 1 Sweet 16,  Two 2nd place regular season Big East finishes, all three years were top 5 in the league. Won at least one NCAA Tourney game all 3 years. 

He then became the head coach at Ohio St. 

Since? Lavall Jordan would have had Butler in 2 of 4 NCAA’s. One was canceled. Butler is preseason 6th in Big East.

Example: Xavier. Chris Mack had Xavier in the NCAA Tourney all 5 Big East seasons. 3 of those 5 teams were top 3 league teams. One was an elite 8 team and one was a sweet 16 team.

He then became Louisville Head Coach. (His wife is from there)

Since? Travis Steele has finished 3rd, 6th, 7th. 

Xavier is picked 3rd in Big East Preseason this season, with 2 preseason first team players. 

If a coach doesn’t win enough, that coach will be replaced. (Wojo,’etc..)

All of the newer Big East schools are very happy being in the Big East. If SLU gets an opportunity to join, I hope they do. I hope they have a commitment to win many Big East Championships in many sports over many years. 

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46 minutes ago, brianstl said:

Since joining the Big East Xavier has earned 12 tournament credits, Butler 9 and Creighton 7.  The only Big East team that has earned more tournament credits than the three new members in that time period is Villanova with 23. 

And how many did X earn the 8 years prior to the Big East? 

Look, I'm not saying I wouldn't want SLU to go. I just want them to commit to being a top tier team if they do. 

It is fact that Butler and X had more NCAA tourney success the 8 years prior to joining the Big East than they have had during the 8 years that they have been in it.  Are there reasons beyond the step up in competition? Maybe they just had better coaches before? Maybe it's something else, but it still remains true. 

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37 minutes ago, courtside said:

Example:

In 3 years as Head Coach at Butler in the Big East, Chris Holtmann made 3 NCAA Tourneys, 1 Sweet 16,  Two 2nd place regular season Big East finishes, all three years were top 5 in the league. Won at least one NCAA Tourney game all 3 years. 

He then became the head coach at Ohio St. 

Since? Lavall Jordan would have had Butler in 2 of 4 NCAA’s. One was canceled. Butler is preseason 6th in Big East.

Example: Xavier. Chris Mack had Xavier in the NCAA Tourney all 5 Big East seasons. 3 of those 5 teams were top 3 league teams. One was an elite 8 team and one was a sweet 16 team.

He then became Louisville Head Coach. (His wife is from there)

Since? Travis Steele has finished 3rd, 6th, 7th. 

Xavier is picked 3rd in Big East Preseason this season, with 2 preseason first team players. 

If a coach doesn’t win enough, that coach will be replaced. (Wojo,’etc..)

All of the newer Big East schools are very happy being in the Big East. If SLU gets an opportunity to join, I hope they do. I hope they have a commitment to win many Big East Championships in many sports over many years. 

I don't disagree with any of this. I just want your last statement to be true. That's it. 

If it's not ... we may regret it. 

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6 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

And how many did X earn the 8 years prior to the Big East? 

Look, I'm not saying I wouldn't want SLU to go. I just want them to commit to being a top tier team if they do. 

It is fact that Butler and X had more NCAA tourney success the 8 years prior to joining the Big East than they have had during the 8 years that they have been in it.  Are there reasons beyond the step up in competition? Maybe they just had better coaches before? Maybe it's something else, but it still remains true. 

I think under Fred/May we have committed to being a top tier program.  I believe the days of penny pinching over ice cream are long gone. 

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15 hours ago, slufanskip said:

I don't disagree with any of this. I just want your last statement to be true. That's it. 

If it's not ... we may regret it. 

Right. I appreciate, and I understand what you were saying multiple times. SLU doesn’t have a past track record of committing to Athletics at the level required to win Big East Titles etc…and that’s the goal, along with NCAA Tourney appearances and mixing in deeper NCAA Tourney runs. …not just getting in or being an after thought in the league. It will keep taking more commitment.

Takes $, budgets, facilities, good coaches, good players, good communication, admin, fans, etc…it takes a lot. Anything less and SLU won’t be competitive enough. But at some point you have to want to try to be more.

What was the Biondi quote when Chaifetz opened? As of to say well the investment  is finished. Nope, just the beginning. We’ll see.

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I still think that SLU's main commitment is to academics, not sports. Getting the new building is primarily a matter of finding a donor that wanted to fund such a thing, it does not change the direction or commitment of SLU as a whole. However, O'Laughlin needed some ballyhoo acknowledging his very significant donation to SLU; maybe he will give more money for some academic area in the future. Once you find someone willing to donate at this level, you just cannot let him go feeling unhappy.

If you do not believe this, just choose a charity of your choice that you have never given a cent to and make a small donation, like $10 to $20, to them. Then count the number of emails and letters you receive over the next couple of years asking for more money. The announcement yesterday was a part of the procedure for showing respect and gratitude for such a large donation. The pretty words said remain pretty words until proven otherwise.

 

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the list of donors at slubillikens.com in the article about the facility is a nice touch as well. 

 https://slubillikens.com/news/2021/10/19/billiken-athletics-billikens-introduce-o-loughlin-family-champions-center.aspx

personally i would like to thank these boosters for doing their part to enrich our billiken athletes.  

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Looking around at some Big East message boards… the overwhelming majority of fans do NOT want to add us at all. A lot of “they add nothing to the league” which is pretty funny considering we have more recent success that quite a few of their members. Funnily enough, they are much more open to adding VCU, even though the school is a much worse fit… those final four runs stick in people’s memory. 
 

I’d say the main desire of the BE fans is to add Gonzaga, obviously, but I don’t see that happening. Geography aside, Gonzaga has a good thing going… why risk moving to a conference where you aren’t top dog every year, when you’re getting 1 seeds year after year in your current situation. 
 

luckily, the BE presidents and FOX will be the ones deciding, and I think we are much more attractive to them than we are to the fans

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