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O.T. Conference Shuffle ( OU and Texas inquire about joining SEC)


BLIKNS

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I would think this would be a good move of we were wanting to gonto 16..

Threw out this idea , a while ago, wasn't received well..

Who else would be a candidate??Basketball only...  Wichita State ( slam dunk, would make a nice  4 team pod with us, Dayton, and Loyola) Iona( Slick Rick gone) , Belmont( just moved to Valley) Murray State( good history, small city)  Northern Kentucky( maybe decent, Cincinnati metro) Bellarmie ( Louisville Market,)

C of C has  played 32 seasons, 14 time conference Champs, 6 NCAA trips.

Urban- check

Basketball only- check

Charleston- Atlantic city, geographically makes too much sense.. So much history in the city..

What concerns me is thus came out right after VCU to AAC speculation...

 

 

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38 minutes ago, BLIKNS said:

I would think this would be a good move of we were wanting to gonto 16..

Threw out this idea , a while ago, wasn't received well..

Who else would be a candidate??Basketball only...  Wichita State ( slam dunk, would make a nice  4 team pod with us, Dayton, and Loyola) Iona( Slick Rick gone) , Belmont( just moved to Valley) Murray State( good history, small city)  Northern Kentucky( maybe decent, Cincinnati metro) Bellarmie ( Louisville Market,)

C of C has  played 32 seasons, 14 time conference Champs, 6 NCAA trips.

Urban- check

Basketball only- check

Charleston- Atlantic city, geographically makes too much sense.. So much history in the city..

What concerns me is thus came out right after VCU to AAC speculation...

 

 

16 teams and one bid.  Things are getting worse.

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On 9/8/2023 at 9:19 PM, thetorch said:

I may have given up on the A10.

Why can't the Big East be reached from the MVC vs A10. Do you have reasons? Creighton did it.

Do you think if Butler hadn't played in the A10 for a couple seasons that the BE wouldn't have tapped them from the Horizon? If so why?

We joined the A10 because it was the best conference we could be in and it recieved multiple bids giving us a better chance of getting in the NCAA tournament. It has now failed on one of those fronts. No better time to reevaluate.

Best reason I can give is that recruits still look at a schedule that includes Dayton, St. Joe's, UMass, Davidison, etc. as more appealing than playing Illinois State, SIU-Carbondale, Mo State, Indiana State, etc.  Dropping to the Mo Valley or Horizon would make it even more impossible to recruit talent.

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On 9/9/2023 at 6:04 PM, thetorch said:

What gets us in the Big East?

Winning 4 straight Valley or Horizon titles?

Finishing on average 4th in the A10 over the same timespan?

I'm taking the titles every time. The BE is too. Nothing else changes. They can't take our facilities, budget or market away from us. 

The A10 has done nothing for us, equally we've done nothing for them. Time to cut our losses. We have a limited time frame. We need to be in a major conference NOW if we want to stay relevant. Staying in this A10 purgatory will lead us down the road to playing in the same conference as UMSL.

Yes, they can take your budget away from you.  What is the amount Mo Valley teams get paid for their TV package?  What is the amount that the A-10 get paid for its TV package (this is the one that always has the A-10 tournament championship game on national television on Selection Sunday).  Moving to the Mo Valley would cause a major hit to the Athletic Department budget.

Your assumption is that we would put the same product on the court in the Mo Valley or the Horizon.  We would not.  We would have less money to spend on the program and lesser recruits playing in the games.  The answer is not to drop down a level and hope that winning at a lower level impresses the Big East.  The answer is to win at our current level.  How about winning the A-10 four consecutive years.  That should be our goal.

Also, why do you think Loyola Chicago left the Mo Valley for the A-10?  As 05 likes to say "I'll hang up and listen."

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4 hours ago, cgeldmacher said:

Yes, they can take your budget away from you.  What is the amount Mo Valley teams get paid for their TV package?  What is the amount that the A-10 get paid for its TV package (this is the one that always has the A-10 tournament championship game on national television on Selection Sunday).  Moving to the Mo Valley would cause a major hit to the Athletic Department budget.

Your assumption is that we would put the same product on the court in the Mo Valley or the Horizon.  We would not.  We would have less money to spend on the program and lesser recruits playing in the games.  The answer is not to drop down a level and hope that winning at a lower level impresses the Big East.  The answer is to win at our current level.  How about winning the A-10 four consecutive years.  That should be our goal.

Also, why do you think Loyola Chicago left the Mo Valley for the A-10?  As 05 likes to say "I'll hang up and listen."

Do you think the MVC and A10 TV payouts are that different.  Neither league releases numbers from what I can see.  I'd like to see the actual numbers before making the assumption that the A10 is so much higher that it would drastically affect our budget.

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4 hours ago, cgeldmacher said:

Best reason I can give is that recruits still look at a schedule that includes Dayton, St. Joe's, UMass, Davidison, etc. as more appealing than playing Illinois State, SIU-Carbondale, Mo State, Indiana State, etc.  Dropping to the Mo Valley or Horizon would make it even more impossible to recruit talent.

What is the appeal to the average Midwest recruit to UMass, St. Joes, or Davidson?  They are different and far away but objectively the list you made has similar kenpom numbers.

I guess if you keep repeating this stuff maybe it will come true.  

I found a neat stat.  Loyola's first year in the A10 the conference rating for the A10 was less than the MVC was for the 5 years prior.  Exactly why did Loyola join the A10?

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44 minutes ago, thetorch said:

Do you think the MVC and A10 TV payouts are that different.  Neither league releases numbers from what I can see.  I'd like to see the actual numbers before making the assumption that the A10 is so much higher that it would drastically affect our budget.

That’s a good point, I’ve been trying to find the actual numbers and I haven’t seen them, I’ll keep looking. I don’t think they are that far apart, but that’s just a guess on my part too. 

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1 hour ago, Lord Elrond said:

That’s a good point, I’ve been trying to find the actual numbers and I haven’t seen them, I’ll keep looking. I don’t think they are that far apart, but that’s just a guess on my part too. 

Neither conference is paying meaningful money out in TV revenue. Both conferences have similar “some of our games are on espn/2/u” deals. A10 hs a deal with cbs sports network while MVC has(had?) a deal with the Bally sports networks/NBC Chicago to broadcast games. None of those deals are paying much. The biggest benefit is the exposure.
 

MVC has more espn games but CBS Sports Net > Bally/NBCChicago nationally. The Bally/NBC deal is better regionally though. 

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Every year I'm less and less interested in the A10.  We're how many years in now and I still feel like the A10 is a temporary home. 

 

I do not want to switch unless its something better(BE or AAC)  but if VCU and Umass leave,  I want out. 

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5 minutes ago, wgstl said:

Every year I'm less and less interested in the A10.  We're how many years in now and I still feel like the A10 is a temporary home. 

 

I do not want to switch unless its something better(BE or A10)  but is VCU and Umass leave,  I want out. 

I've gotten real tired of it.  No disrespect to the various schools in the A10, but I just have no interest in playing 75% of them.

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13 minutes ago, Box and Won said:

I've gotten real tired of it.  No disrespect to the various schools in the A10, but I just have no interest in playing 75% of them.

Most of the schools are too far, and too bad to make it enjoyable. Cant have both of those problems. 

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19 minutes ago, wgstl said:

Every year I'm less and less interested in the A10.  We're how many years in now and I still feel like the A10 is a temporary home. 

 

I do not want to switch unless its something better(BE or A10)  but is VCU and Umass leave,  I want out. 

Like Box just said, playing teams in the A10 and playing in the A10 just doesn't make my socks roll up and down anymore. And let's be honest, it doesn't really matter what conference SLU plays in because they aren't movin' on up until they start stringing together successful seasons. A president that is fully committed to enhancing the status of its MBB program (it's money maker) and understanding the positive impact that it would have on the school as a whole and an AD that applies the same standards to all head coaches would be a fantastic start.

So if the powers that be are satisfied with the current state of the program I say let's at least spice things up should VCU and UMASS leave the A10 . My selfish choice (WGSTL won't like it for reasons stated above) would be for SLU would to join West Coast Conference since geography doesn't seem to matter anymore. Private institutions, great travel destinations (San Diego and Malibu in January/February?), and it would be fun playing Gonzaga and St. Mary's 4 times each year. Of course if the Zags were to bolt that would be a huge blow. MVC obviously makes the most sense logistically. Forming new rivalries with Wichita State and Memphis would be a lot of fun in the AAC. All moot of course. We aren't leaving the A10 anytime soon.

 

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18 minutes ago, gabriel said:

A10 is clearly the better conference, there's a reason Loyola left the valley to come join us in the A10. 

Correct, I agree - as of right now. 

Lets say these rumors are true and UMASS and VCU leave.  If the MVC adds SLU, Loychi, and UD - and drops UIC, I think the A10 is better

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12 minutes ago, wgstl said:

Correct, I agree - as of right now. 

Lets say these rumors are true and UMASS and VCU leave.  If the MVC adds SLU, Loychi, and UD - and drops UIC, I think the A10 is better

If both are only one bid conferences, what does it matter which one we are in?

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The A10 has a lot of programs with the same issue SLU has - the inability to sustain success. Some of them have had a really strong period. Some have made deep Tournament runs. Some have looked poised to breakout many times and just never have. But no one has been able to maintain success at a high level. Xavier did, and they're gone. VCU is looking like they're doing the best at it and now buzz is building about them leaving for the American.

The teams I would've actually wanted to play the most in the Valley are gone - Creighton, Wichita State, Loyola. Any program that is able to sustain success bolts from that league as soon as they can. If SLU goes to the Valley, we're in purgatory forever.

I have to give that league credit for being proactive and adding programs that make them stronger - Belmont, Murray State, and I think UIC is a good addition. They'd also leave if a better option came along, though.

Point is, the Valley isn't the answer to our problems. We'll probably be even more frustrated there.

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 Looking at the 2022 budgets for the two A10 public schools without football:

VCU:

  • Media rights: 235,059
  • NCAA distributions: 776,528
  • Conference distributions (non-media or bowl): 1,315,820

GMU:

  • Media rights: 235,059
  • NCAA distributions: 869,981
  • Conference distributions (non-media or bowl): 139,624
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30 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

Drop Valpo too. 

It’s harder to drop, so I don’t want to throw a lot of names, but yes they fit. Point is, if the a10 lost a few top members, and if we along with a few can leave for the MVC, it’s worth it.  But only if this could happen. 

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2 hours ago, Compton said:

 Looking at the 2022 budgets for the two A10 public schools without football:

VCU:

  • Media rights: 235,059
  • NCAA distributions: 776,528
  • Conference distributions (non-media or bowl): 1,315,820

GMU:

  • Media rights: 235,059
  • NCAA distributions: 869,981
  • Conference distributions (non-media or bowl): 139,624

Missouri State:

  • Licensing & Royalties: 158,000
  • NCAA distributions: 700,000
  • Conference reimbursement: 580,000
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