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Worth reading: Gordon's Critique of the $$ Grab


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This morning, Jeff Gordon says in public what I'm concerned about -- anyone else?? Trust me I want to see the Bills as much as anyone. But as an educator I'm concerned about all these moral questions too, not to mention how comfortable we've all become with the corruption and the $$$$ angles... And ps: I recognize immediately how political all this can become. I couldn't care less about the "politics," but I do have moral questions; anyone else?

best lines: "So the show must go on. The pressure to attract elite players, win games, and satisfy boosters remains strong. As reporter Pat Forde noted in Sports Illustrated, cheating continues unabated despite a federal bribery probe that produced multiple convictions of talent brokers and assistant coaches. Phone surveillance during that federal probe captured vivid examples of the cash-and-carry commerce. The HBO documentary “The Scheme” hung that dirty laundry out for all to see."

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/jeff-gordon/gordo-college-basketballs-money-grab-continues-despite-pandemic/article_e2583041-bb14-5cdc-9fcc-f2ede045abec.html

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15 minutes ago, DoctorB said:

This morning, Jeff Gordon says in public what I'm concerned about -- anyone else?? Trust me I want to see the Bills as much as anyone. But as an educator I'm concerned about all these moral questions too, not to mention how comfortable we've all become with the corruption and the $$$$ angles... And ps: I recognize immediately how political all this can become. I couldn't care less about the "politics," but I do have moral questions; anyone else?

best lines: "So the show must go on. The pressure to attract elite players, win games, and satisfy boosters remains strong. As reporter Pat Forde noted in Sports Illustrated, cheating continues unabated despite a federal bribery probe that produced multiple convictions of talent brokers and assistant coaches. Phone surveillance during that federal probe captured vivid examples of the cash-and-carry commerce. The HBO documentary “The Scheme” hung that dirty laundry out for all to see."

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/jeff-gordon/gordo-college-basketballs-money-grab-continues-despite-pandemic/article_e2583041-bb14-5cdc-9fcc-f2ede045abec.html

Many of us have been concerned about this for some time.  The problem is we let coaches make unseemly amount of money when RM got a $1 million contract with us we all were well finally we are going to be able to compete with the better programs.  Little did we know nor RM that that $1 million helped kick off a run away train of salaries.  No nobody flinches at a $3 million contract anymore.  When the stakes are so high - money - cheating will occur and it will be continue until the government and the NCAA take is seriously.  Honestly the Nesbitt recruitment was probably a perfect example of how this all works.  I am not saying Penny paid him off but the underhanded lying and promises are just as bad.

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Hopefully we all will stay away from politics and not judge each other how we feel about the virus and wanting to attend games.  I am interested in others opinions.

My wife and I have made the decision that we want to attend games and are happy to do whatever SLU says we must do to protect others attending games from my wife and I.  If SLU wants us to take a virus test before each game, wear masks, gloves and any other PPE we will gladly do it.

SLU should have a no tolerance policy if you are not wearing your mask correctly, remove any required PPE then those fans will be removed immediately.

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28 minutes ago, DoctorB said:

This morning, Jeff Gordon says in public what I'm concerned about -- anyone else?? Trust me I want to see the Bills as much as anyone. But as an educator I'm concerned about all these moral questions too, not to mention how comfortable we've all become with the corruption and the $$$$ angles... And ps: I recognize immediately how political all this can become. I couldn't care less about the "politics," but I do have moral questions; anyone else?

best lines: "So the show must go on. The pressure to attract elite players, win games, and satisfy boosters remains strong. As reporter Pat Forde noted in Sports Illustrated, cheating continues unabated despite a federal bribery probe that produced multiple convictions of talent brokers and assistant coaches. Phone surveillance during that federal probe captured vivid examples of the cash-and-carry commerce. The HBO documentary “The Scheme” hung that dirty laundry out for all to see."

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/jeff-gordon/gordo-college-basketballs-money-grab-continues-despite-pandemic/article_e2583041-bb14-5cdc-9fcc-f2ede045abec.html

Can that piece really become political? It was basically a piece pointing out that cheating in college basketball is going on. That's probably something that Republicans and Democrats alike can agree on!

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Many issues here but the biggest problem rests with college presidents who either condone or ignore the cheating or abusive behavior. Until leadership grows a pair it will only get worse. 

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When I saw “Gordon” I thought it was Carte’Are coming back with accusations of being paid by us.  Or something like that.

Jeff Gordon is only saying in print what many have said multiple times over the years.  There is nothing you can do about it if the NCAA won’t enforce it or schools go all legal on their own governing body.  Guys need to go to jail, plain and simple.  
Eddie Sutton was dropping bags of cash thru FedEx years ago.  Duke was finding jobs so moms could move from Alaska to be with their sons.  Louisville was recruiting with hookers.  SMU got the football death penalty.  
Money corrupts it all.  Millions of dollars turn on the whims of 18-year-olds.  A simple rule like 13 scholarships per is a fiasco based on Penny’s adherence.  Just because your kids ain’t staying does not mean you can stockpile just the same.  

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36 minutes ago, DoctorB said:

This morning, Jeff Gordon says in public what I'm concerned about -- anyone else?? Trust me I want to see the Bills as much as anyone. But as an educator I'm concerned about all these moral questions too, not to mention how comfortable we've all become with the corruption and the $$$$ angles... And ps: I recognize immediately how political all this can become. I couldn't care less about the "politics," but I do have moral questions; anyone else?

best lines: "So the show must go on. The pressure to attract elite players, win games, and satisfy boosters remains strong. As reporter Pat Forde noted in Sports Illustrated, cheating continues unabated despite a federal bribery probe that produced multiple convictions of talent brokers and assistant coaches. Phone surveillance during that federal probe captured vivid examples of the cash-and-carry commerce. The HBO documentary “The Scheme” hung that dirty laundry out for all to see."

https://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/jeff-gordon/gordo-college-basketballs-money-grab-continues-despite-pandemic/article_e2583041-bb14-5cdc-9fcc-f2ede045abec.html

Cheating to get players is common, even at the high school level.  Often the cheating at that level involves shenanigans to establish residency. In college, the stakes are much higher so the primary form of cheating is payouts by wealthy boosters to players and families.

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This problem lies squarely at the feet of the NCAA. To cite the examples of outright cheating and wink-wink inducements to get the highest ranked players are to well known and numerous to cover again. But when the “elite” programs do it, and the NCAA turns a blind eye to the cheating, you basically open Pandora’s box for other minor programs to follow suit. If the NCAA would grow a set and hand out serious penalties to the elite coaches and royalty programs we might stand a better chance at ending the corruption. Taj Mahal ‘79 cited the SMU case, but really SMU was a relatively minor FB program.  They were the sacrificial lamb. Would the NCAA take that kind of action in BB against a Kansas, UK, or. UNC? No way. However, if they would they’re message might resonate across the land. The too big to fail attitude would be struck down, and programs might start playing by the rules. Until the slap on the wrist punishments stop we can expect the same old same old. And face it, the NCAA won’t go after the elites, because they’re afraid the elites will bolt  and basically kill the NCAA. 

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2 hours ago, Taj79 said:

When I saw “Gordon” I thought it was Carte’Are coming back with accusations of being paid by us.  Or something like that.

Jeff Gordon is only saying in print what many have said multiple times over the years.  There is nothing you can do about it if the NCAA won’t enforce it or schools go all legal on their own governing body.  Guys need to go to jail, plain and simple.  
Eddie Sutton was dropping bags of cash thru FedEx years ago.  Duke was finding jobs so moms could move from Alaska to be with their sons.  Louisville was recruiting with hookers.  SMU got the football death penalty.  
Money corrupts it all.  Millions of dollars turn on the whims of 18-year-olds.  A simple rule like 13 scholarships per is a fiasco based on Penny’s adherence.  Just because your kids ain’t staying does not mean you can stockpile just the same.  

I opened this thread thinking, omg Carteare will not go away.  

I feel like the media is more outraged than fans when it comes to this.  

The first half of the article insinuating that College Basketball decision makers are ignoring the interests of the student athletes when it is trying to schedule games is moronic.  Just like the pearl-clutchers who do not want College Football to occur.

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I always thought Wade was a tool when he was at VCU, so I like this quote...

 

“I get sick to my stomach every time we play LSU,” an SEC administrator told Forde. “It’s revolting when I see Will Wade walk into our gym.”

 

 

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3 hours ago, DoctorB said:

The HBO documentary “The Scheme” hung that dirty laundry out for all to see."

That's a very generous take. While the documentary itself was fine, it was an embarrassment for the FBI and federal prosecutors. The main take away from The Scheme was how much time, money and resources were wasted in a relatively fruitless attempt to take down corrupt basketball officials. 

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It's a tricky issue.  On one side of what people would call a "money grab," there are the cheating coaches and programs.  I think we would all agree that a coaches who cheat should be punished and are saddened when that doesn't seem to happen.

On the other side of the "money grab," there are those that like to criticize the NCAA and schools for making money on college football and basketball.  Put me on the side of this issue where I don't mind the schools making this money.  I have a friend whose son busted his but to get a swimming scholarship at a top 40 college swim program.  He accepted the scholarship about three weeks ago.  A few days ago, the school announced they were cutting their swim and dive programs.  Now, it may be difficult for this kid to sign on somewhere else, since many of the scholarships were filled.  Add to that the idea that this winter sport's current athletes are now going to get an extra year of eligibility.

Here's my point, it's easy to look at all the money that's involved in college football and basketball and be critical.  It's easy until you see where this money goes and the good that it also does.  I think we call all agree that college swimming and diving is amateur colleges sports as it was intended.  The problem is that the money for those programs has to come from somewhere. 

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-the NCAA has proven to be corrupt or horrible at their mission or both

-the Eddie Sutton cash package came open at Emery Worldwide, only reason I remember this now defunct company

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2 hours ago, ACE said:

I always thought Wade was a tool when he was at VCU, so I like this quote...

 

“I get sick to my stomach every time we play LSU,” an SEC administrator told Forde. “It’s revolting when I see Will Wade walk into our gym.”

 

 

But he definitely only started cheating when he got to LSU and ran a clean program at VCU

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3 hours ago, cgeldmacher said:

It's a tricky issue.  On one side of what people would call a "money grab," there are the cheating coaches and programs.  I think we would all agree that a coaches who cheat should be punished and are saddened when that doesn't seem to happen.

On the other side of the "money grab," there are those that like to criticize the NCAA and schools for making money on college football and basketball.  Put me on the side of this issue where I don't mind the schools making this money.  I have a friend whose son busted his but to get a swimming scholarship at a top 40 college swim program.  He accepted the scholarship about three weeks ago.  A few days ago, the school announced they were cutting their swim and dive programs.  Now, it may be difficult for this kid to sign on somewhere else, since many of the scholarships were filled.  Add to that the idea that this winter sport's current athletes are now going to get an extra year of eligibility.

Here's my point, it's easy to look at all the money that's involved in college football and basketball and be critical.  It's easy until you see where this money goes and the good that it also does.  I think we call all agree that college swimming and diving is amateur colleges sports as it was intended.  The problem is that the money for those programs has to come from somewhere. 

So are you saying that since the money the cheaters raise go to kids in non revenue sports that the cheating is somehow OK?

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Anyone else find it interesting that all of  sudden, since Shaka and Wade left, VCU has zero four-star recruits?  De'riante Jenkins was the last I believe and that was last year.  I take that back, Jarren McAllister is listed as a four star but that's a far cry from the Smart/Wade years.  Frankly, I'dlove to hear from some of old VCU visitors and get their take on Rhoades and the state of their once vaunted program.

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13 hours ago, Taj79 said:

Anyone else find it interesting that all of  sudden, since Shaka and Wade left, VCU has zero four-star recruits?  De'riante Jenkins was the last I believe and that was last year.  I take that back, Jarren McAllister is listed as a four star but that's a far cry from the Smart/Wade years.  Frankly, I'dlove to hear from some of old VCU visitors and get their take on Rhoades and the state of their once vaunted program.

Nah'shon Hyland was a consensus four star recruit for Rhoades.  I think the only four star Wade signed was Jenkins.

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11 minutes ago, brianstl said:

Nah'shon Hyland was a consensus four star recruit for Rhoades.  I think the only four star Wade signed was Jenkins.

Exactly, Wade just rode Shaka's recruits to his current position where recruiting 4 stars is much easier.  LSU's administration wants to win so bad they'll cosign anything.

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I'm no expert and just go by what I read and I read Verbal Commits (which I know isn't all-inclusive).  VC only lists Bones as a 2-star.  Ditto the new kid coming in from Baltimore, Ace Baldwin.  That's where McAllister is rated and that's where I got my numbers.  Just revealing my (limited) research.

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9 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

I'm no expert and just go by what I read and I read Verbal Commits (which I know isn't all-inclusive).  VC only lists Bones as a 2-star.  Ditto the new kid coming in from Baltimore, Ace Baldwin.  That's where McAllister is rated and that's where I got my numbers.  Just revealing my (limited) research.

Ignore the star ratings on VC. They've never gotten that feature to work correctly.

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22 hours ago, Compton said:

That's a very generous take.

not my take, from the article.

The other thing nobody mentions here is the whole issue of playing at all, or doing so under what conditions? "So the show must go on. The pressure to attract elite players, win games, and satisfy boosters remains strong." Not just sham recruiting/ cheating. But the URGENCY to schedule games. Is it ethical???

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37 minutes ago, DoctorB said:

not my take, from the article.

The other thing nobody mentions here is the whole issue of playing at all, or doing so under what conditions? "So the show must go on. The pressure to attract elite players, win games, and satisfy boosters remains strong." Not just sham recruiting/ cheating. But the URGENCY to schedule games. Is it ethical???

You do realize that every other sport is playing now, including college football, don't you? High schools sports are playing. I go to 4-5 youth soccer games every weekend. Tonight I coach my 3rd grade girls basketball team. Life and sports continue outside of ivory towers of isolation.

Every college basketball player has the choice of not playing and can keep their scholarship and their extra year of eligibility. It would be unethical NOT to play at this point.

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20 hours ago, cheeseman said:

So are you saying that since the money the cheaters raise go to kids in non revenue sports that the cheating is somehow OK?

That's not at all what I said.  I said that if the "cash grab" being referred to is coaches cheating to justify big salaries and lucrative promotional deals, I have a problem with that, obviously.  Who wouldn't.  If the "cash grab" is a broader reference to all the money that is brought in by football and basketball, then I don't have the same issue.  Sure there is crossover between the two in that the cheating coaches out to benefit themselves also make money for their schools, and other schools for that matter.  However, clean programs also generate that money.  The fact that football and basketball bring in all that money isn't a bad thing in and of itself.  The money generated does fund a lot of other sports programs and academic endeavors.

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