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Goodwin & French put names in draft

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1 minute ago, cgeldmacher said:

Question, are putting your name in for the NBA Draft and putting your name into the transfer portal as a grad transfer mutually exclusive?  By this I mean do we no longer have to worry about French and Goodwin applying to be grad transfers because of this news.  Before anyone says anything, I wasn't really all that worried about either of these two, but I know it was in the back, way back, of every MBM's mind.

Huh?  Almost all grad transfer applicants can do so only after missing a year of playing because of injury or sitting after a transfer.  The two things aren't mutually exclusive, and they aren't really connected.

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1 minute ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

Huh?  Almost all grad transfer applicants can do so only after missing a year of playing because of injury or sitting after a transfer.  The two things aren't mutually exclusive, and they aren't really connected.

I didn't think that was true at all.  Most basketball players take summer classes which is why many can graduate in three years.  I might be wrong, but I don't think that most grad transfers are guys that red shirted at some point.  I was under the impression that most were three year players that just had the credits.  Like I said, if someone knows the answer to this, let us know.

My question was asked, because I don't recall seeing many if any guys put their name in for the draft and apply to do a grad transfer.

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25 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

Question, are putting your name in for the NBA Draft and putting your name into the transfer portal as a grad transfer mutually exclusive?  By this I mean do we no longer have to worry about French and Goodwin applying to be grad transfers because of this news.  Before anyone says anything, I wasn't really all that worried about either of these two, but I know it was in the back, way back, of every MBM's mind.

-get a grip, this is ridiculous and even with your post this thought isn't in my mind, anywhere or anytime  #TeamBlue

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19 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

I didn't think that was true at all.  Most basketball players take summer classes which is why many can graduate in three years.  I might be wrong, but I don't think that most grad transfers are guys that red shirted at some point.  I was under the impression that most were three year players that just had the credits.  Like I said, if someone knows the answer to this, let us know.

My question was asked, because I don't recall seeing many if any guys put their name in for the draft and apply to do a grad transfer.

Blackshear did both a year or two ago.  And to your other point...with summer courses an athlete could graduate in three years.  

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35 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

I didn't think that was true at all.  Most basketball players take summer classes which is why many can graduate in three years.  I might be wrong, but I don't think that most grad transfers are guys that red shirted at some point.  I was under the impression that most were three year players that just had the credits.  Like I said, if someone knows the answer to this, let us know.

My question was asked, because I don't recall seeing many if any guys put their name in for the draft and apply to do a grad transfer.

but also a lot of ncaa athletes because of travel during their season only take the minimum number of full time hours which typically wont graduate them in 4 regular years.  so they need to do summer school to make up a class or two each year.

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1 minute ago, billiken_roy said:

but also a lot of ncaa athletes because of travel during their season only take the minimum number of full time hours which typically wont graduate them in 4 regular years.  so they need to do summer school to make up a class or two each year.

Keep in mind with dual enrollment in HS, a lot of college athletes are entering college with anywhere from 12-30 hours.

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Re: The potential for Goodwin or French to transfer when they pull out of the draft

1) We've been given no reason to think they'd want to. By all accounts they love it at SLU

2) I can't speak to whether French may have graduated in 3 years, but didn't Jordan lose 2nd semester of his freshman year because of S2? Would seem incredibly unlikely that he has graduated based on that.

3) College basketball off-season is pretty much going to suck if/when they allow all players to transfer every year. Basically will have to have this discussion about every single player on the team every year.  

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6 minutes ago, kshoe said:

3) College basketball off-season is pretty much going to suck if/when they allow all players to transfer every year. Basically will have to have this discussion about every single player on the team every year.  

That's when i'm out.....

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next we'll have a trade deadline 'tween OOC and Conference games.

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French and Goodwin haven't graduated yet so they can't be grad transfers.  This is ridiculous.

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Starting to think Perkins isnt even going to enter his name.  most teams seem to be doing it together.

 

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3 hours ago, wgstl said:

Starting to think Perkins isnt even going to enter his name.  most teams seem to be doing it together.

 

Agreed. Coach mentioned a few weeks ago how he hadn't had a chance to sit down with each player individually and have his usual post-season debrief. Probably happened a bit later than usual because of the recent disruptions / strange end to the season.

They probably went over the appropriateness of declaring with Goodwin and French. That's also probably where Hankton got a sense of what would work best for him going forward. And one can imagine the Perkins conversation went something like "You're already performing at a high level, but don't quite have the D-1 resume. You've put yourself in a position to make a name for yourself next year and be as strong an entry as anyone with the track record to back it up." 

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4 minutes ago, Compton said:

Agreed. Coach mentioned a few weeks ago how he hadn't had a chance to sit down with each player individually and have his usual post-season debrief. Probably happened a bit later than usual because of the recent disruptions / strange end to the season.

They probably went over the appropriateness of declaring with Goodwin and French. That's also probably where Hankton got a sense of what would work best for him going forward. And one can imagine the Perkins conversation went something like "You're already performing at a high level, but don't quite have the D-1 resume. You've put yourself in a position to make a name for yourself next year and be as strong an entry as anyone with the track record to back it up." 

when is the last time a senior was a 1st round pick?    i am asking i dont know.   might have been last year.   but it sure seems like over the last couple of decades the draft is all about finding the diamond in the rough or player with unproven potential.     seniors seem to pay a price for not coming out early.   i dont agree with this line of thinking just seems what it has become. 

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1 minute ago, billiken_roy said:

when is the last time a senior was a 1st round pick?    i am asking i dont know.   might have been last year.   but it sure seems like over the last couple of decades the draft is all about finding the diamond in the rough or player with unproven potential.     seniors seem to pay a price for not coming out early.   i dont agree with this line of thinking just seems what it has become. 

I believe carrawell stayed all 4 years and didnt get drafted, all american iirc

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Posted (edited)
20 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

when is the last time a senior was a 1st round pick?    i am asking i dont know.   might have been last year.   but it sure seems like over the last couple of decades the draft is all about finding the diamond in the rough or player with unproven potential.     seniors seem to pay a price for not coming out early.   i dont agree with this line of thinking just seems what it has become. 

Don’t know if he was the last but Buddy Heild from Oklahoma played all 4 years. 

Edited by willie

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11 minutes ago, dennis_w said:

I believe carrawell stayed all 4 years and didnt get drafted, all american iirc

All 3 of the Ritter boys played 4 years in college and all were drafted, but not 1st round. Carrawell was drafted 2nd round to the Spurs, White was drafted 2nd round to the Wizards, and Woods was drafted 2nd round to the T-Wolves.

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24 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

when is the last time a senior was a 1st round pick?    i am asking i dont know.   might have been last year.   but it sure seems like over the last couple of decades the draft is all about finding the diamond in the rough or player with unproven potential.     seniors seem to pay a price for not coming out early.   i dont agree with this line of thinking just seems what it has become. 

Buddy Hield, Jimmer, Doug McDermott, Frank Kaminsky and Cam Johnson are the only lottery picks that were seniors in the last decade by my calculation

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17 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

when is the last time a senior was a 1st round pick?    i am asking i dont know.   might have been last year.   but it sure seems like over the last couple of decades the draft is all about finding the diamond in the rough or player with unproven potential.     seniors seem to pay a price for not coming out early.   i dont agree with this line of thinking just seems what it has become. 

There are a couple of seniors every year that get drafted in the first round, usually not lottery picks though.  There are a lot more in the second round.

2019: 

-Pick 11: Cameron Johnson (UNC)

-Pick 20: Matisse Thybulle (Washington)

-Pick 26: Dylan Windler (Belmont)

-Second round: 9 selected

2018:

-Pick 21: Grayson Allen (Duke)

-Pick 22: Chandler Hutchinson (Boise State)

-Second round: 8 selected

2017:

-Pick 29: Derrick White (Colorado)

-Pick 30: Josh Hart (Villanova)

-Second round: 11 selected

2016:

-Pick 6: Buddy Hield (Oklahoma)

-Pick 12: Taurean Prince (Baylor)

-Pick 14: Denzel Valentine (Mich State)

-Pick 20: Caris LeVert (Michigan)

-Pick 25: Brice Johnson (UNC)

-Second round: 10 selected

2015:

-Pick 9: Frank Kaminsky (Wisconsin)

-Pick 19: Jerian Grant (Notre Dame)

-Pick 20: Delon Wright (Utah)

-Pick 27: Larry Nance Jr (Wyoming)

-Second round: 13 selected

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1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

when is the last time a senior was a 1st round pick?    i am asking i dont know.   might have been last year.   but it sure seems like over the last couple of decades the draft is all about finding the diamond in the rough or player with unproven potential.     seniors seem to pay a price for not coming out early.   i dont agree with this line of thinking just seems what it has become. 

Good points. Makes me wonder if a kid in Perkins' circumstances could actually be helped by having taken the Juco route. 

Sure he's technically a senior, but in some ways (maybe including recruiting and scout awareness?) he's more of a sophomore. Almost like he isn't a "lowly" senior, but more of that diamond in the rough you describe?

I realize that could may make zero sense - just strange to think of him as a beleaguered journeyman senior that scouts will look past when he broke onto the scene 4-5 months ago. 

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5 minutes ago, Compton said:

Good points. Makes me wonder if a kid in Perkins' circumstances could actually be helped by having taken the Juco route. 

Sure he's technically a senior, but in some ways (maybe including recruiting and scout awareness?) he's more of a sophomore. Almost like he isn't a "lowly" senior, but more of that diamond in the rough you describe?

I realize that could may make zero sense - just strange to think of him as a beleaguered journeyman senior that scouts will look past when he broke onto the scene 4-5 months ago. 

it is my understanding perkins if nothing else gained physically.    he was extemely skinny and physically weak coming out of high school right?  i am sure 3 star or coach314 could comment on that as i am stating off of memory of comments on this board.   

also, if Harrington at swic does anything good he knows how to get his players to have that scorer's mentality.    now maybe again 3 star and coach 314 will tell us that perkins had no trouble throwing the ball at the basket in high school.   i dont know.   but i do know he has that mentality now and i somewhat doubt he was that much of a scorer's mentality in high school   

my point is that perkins years in juco had value imo.   

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1 hour ago, JohnnyJumpUp said:

All 3 of the Ritter boys played 4 years in college and all were drafted, but not 1st round. Carrawell was drafted 2nd round to the Spurs, White was drafted 2nd round to the Wizards, and Woods was drafted 2nd round to the T-Wolves.

did carrawell ever play in the nba? obviously my memory a bit fuzzy

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Clearly not many seniors get drafted by the NBA but it's hard to say how much of it is because they are viewed as not having much upside or because all of the players that are good enough have already gone pro. Basically anybody (with a few exceptions of course) that is guaranteed to go in the first round is currently going to the NBA as soon as possible. So for a senior to leap into the top half of the first round he has to be:

1) one of the few that intentionally passes up on it at an earlier age or

2) Makes quite a leap between his junior and senior years

There just aren't that many kids that fall into either of those camps.

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physically weak coming out of high school right (Perkins)

compared to us maybe :)

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