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Taj79

Jordan Goodwin Needs Tons of Work

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I thought that, on the surface, Jordan Goodwin had a horrible year.  Sophomore slump.  Out of position.   Broken nose.  Team chemistry.  Hangover from S2.   Whatever.  I saw every game this year and just felt that Goodwin failed in the eye test portion of it all.  As I noted in the 'Sophomore Slump' thread, his numbers were actually comparable to last year with the exception of free throw percentage so it was not so much a slump but maybe just no general improvement.  

I went back and examined all the box scores and play-by-plays for the season examining Jordan's stats for the year.  The only two that did not have a play by play were the opener against SEMO, and the near closer against VCU.  Against SEMO, Jordan went 3 for 6 and against VCU he went 4 for 7.  I suspect the numbers will be off some here and there ... my accounting, stats guys mistakes, etc.  But I think they are close enough. 

Here's what they say ....

Overall ESPN says he took 297 shots this year and I've tallied 286 so I am missing about 11 shots.  The Wiz can tell me how missing 11 skews my numbers.  Eighty of his shots were three pointers and he made 20 of them for a weak 25%.  ESPN lists his 2FG% as 39.4%.  But is it?  Once you delete 3 pointers, the scoring in boxscores on shots are tallied as jumpers, layups, tip ins and dunks.  Jordan took 80 jumpers this year.  Out of conference he took 34, making nine for a % of 26.5%.  Not much better than his overall 3fg%.  In conference he took 46 jumpers making 15 for a 32.6% rate.  Both rates are well below the noted 39.4% overall rate.  Why?  Because he tallied 113 laups, tip-ins, and dunks.  Almost 60% of his shots come from within what .. three feet or so of the basket?  Great right?  No -- because there he made only 56 for a shooting percentage of 49.6%.  On layups, tip-ins, and dunks!  That tells me that Jordan's entire offensive game needs work this summer.  Almost a whole re-do.   If he can't shoot, he needs to drive.  If he's driving in for layups, dunks and tip-ins, he needs to make them at Obi Toppin-esque rates.   

He IS needed.  But not in the current version.  Jordan Goodwin needs to discover an offensive game and an offensive role.  If he's the PG with the ball in his hands, he needs to be much, much better.

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Does this really need a new thread? Wasn't this being discussed in the Sophomore Slump thread?

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9 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

 

He IS needed.  But not in the current version.  Jordan Goodwin needs to discover an offensive game and an offensive role.  If he's the PG with the ball in his hands, he needs to be much, much better.

just as soon as norman dale decides to change his approach to the offense we will see the real jordan goodwin. 

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Jordan Goodwin boiled down to three key issues IMO: 

struggles shooting 3s but is not quick enough to beat defenders off the dribble. 

great rebounder but struggles at finishing put backs potentially due to size

struggles to finish at the rim, gets fouled often but doesn’t shoot free throws well. 

If he can work his ability to finish at the rim AND improve his free throw shooting then he once again becomes a weapon for the Billikens next season. 

 

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10.4/7.2/3.7

vs

11.5/7.5/4.0

 

In a season where he has a lower percentage of the offensive responsibility due to Bess's improvement and Isabell's arrival, I don't really see a regression. Did he improve? I don't think so, but calling a repeat of last year a regression is a stretch, IMO. If he shot better from the FT line, I don't think anyone here is complaining. 

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2 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

just as soon as norman dale decides to change his approach to the offense we will see the real jordan goodwin. 

Norman Dale had a Jimmy Chitwood. Travis Ford doesn't.

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2 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

 is not quick enough to beat defenders off the dribble. 

I see you keep saying this in other threads, and I just don't totally agree. His size and lateral quickness relative to the size is plenty good enough to beat people off the dribble. He does it multiple times a game. Whether he finishes is another story, but he gets to the rim time and again.

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5 minutes ago, Taj79 said:
6 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

I thought that, on the surface, Jordan Goodwin had a horrible year.  Sophomore slump.  Out of position.   Broken nose.  Team chemistry.  Hangover from S2.   Whatever.  I saw every game this year and just felt that Goodwin failed in the eye test portion of it all.  As I noted in the 'Sophomore Slump' thread, his numbers were actually comparable to last year with the exception of free throw percentage so it was not so much a slump but maybe just no general improvement.  

I went back and examined all the box scores and play-by-plays for the season examining Jordan's stats for the year.  The only two that did not have a play by play were the opener against SEMO, and the near closer against VCU.  Against SEMO, Jordan went 3 for 6 and against VCU he went 4 for 7.  I suspect the numbers will be off some here and there ... my accounting, stats guys mistakes, etc.  But I think they are close enough. 

Here's what they say ....

Overall ESPN says he took 297 shots this year and I've tallied 286 so I am missing about 11 shots.  The Wiz can tell me how missing 11 skews my numbers.  Eighty of his shots were three pointers and he made 20 of them for a weak 25%.  ESPN lists his 2FG% as 39.4%.  But is it?  Once you delete 3 pointers, the scoring in boxscores on shots are tallied as jumpers, layups, tip ins and dunks.  Jordan took 80 jumpers this year.  Out of conference he took 34, making nine for a % of 26.5%.  Not much better than his overall 3fg%.  In conference he took 46 jumpers making 15 for a 32.6% rate.  Both rates are well below the noted 39.4% overall rate.  Why?  Because he tallied 113 laups, tip-ins, and dunks.  Almost 60% of his shots come from within what .. three feet or so of the basket?  Great right?  No -- because there he made only 56 for a shooting percentage of 49.6%.  On layups, tip-ins, and dunks!  That tells me that Jordan's entire offensive game needs work this summer.  Almost a whole re-do.   If he can't shoot, he needs to drive.  If he's driving in for layups, dunks and tip-ins, he needs to make them at Obi Toppin-esque rates.   

He IS needed.  But not in the current version.  Jordan Goodwin needs to discover an offensive game and an offensive role.  If he's the PG with the ball in his hands, he needs to be much, much better.

 

I think his best role on offense is when you have him post up smaller guards. He seems to dominate in those situations. I'd agree he's got to work on his jumper and FTs. 

The biggest change I saw in his game was the stupid TOs, especially on breaks, and he didn't seem as aware of where the open man was on the floor. He made some really great assists his FR year. Didn't seem like he did that this year.  Anyone take a look at his assist numbers were compared to his FR year. 

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1 minute ago, Littlebill said:

I see you keep saying this in other threads, and I just don't totally agree. His size and lateral quickness relative to the size is plenty good enough to beat people off the dribble. He does it multiple times a game. Whether he finishes is another story, but he gets to the rim time and again.

Yeah it's kind of a lazy narrative on my part.

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You could see Goodwin's potential in flashes. Next year we NEED him to be a guy who can consistently score.

Beating a dead horse but...

-Work on half court repertoire, post up game, mid range jumpers, his little running sky layup

-FT% > 70%

-3P% > 35%

Hopefully he benefits from playing alongside a pure point guard and a true 3PT sharpshooter, but he needs to polish his offensive fundamentals if this team has any hope next year

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He needs to shoot better and turn it over less. I don’t have the stats but I I feel pretty confident in that assessment 

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16 minutes ago, billikenbill said:

Norman Dale had a Jimmy Chitwood. Travis Ford doesn't.

exactly so why do we play as such?

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5 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

You could see Goodwin's potential in flashes. Next year we NEED him to be a guy who can consistently score.

Beating a dead horse but...

-Work on half court repertoire, post up game, mid range jumpers, his little running sky layup

-FT% > 70%

-3P% > 35%

Hopefully he benefits from playing alongside a pure point guard and a true 3PT sharpshooter, but he needs to polish his offensive fundamentals if this team has any hope next year

I don't even care about his 3 point shooting. If he can finish his chance at the rim and the line nobody would be talking about "regressing".

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19 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

Jordan Goodwin boiled down to three key issues IMO: 

struggles shooting 3s but is not quick enough to beat defenders off the dribble. 

great rebounder but struggles at finishing put backs potentially due to size

struggles to finish at the rim, gets fouled often but doesn’t shoot free throws well. 

If he can work his ability to finish at the rim AND improve his free throw shooting then he once again becomes a weapon for the Billikens next season. 

 

pound for pound and inch for inch he might be the best rebounder i have ever seen.

your use of "struggle" is odd.   he does more than most billikens ever even came close to accomplishing.   his problem is one of being forced to change his game from what he has done his entire career.   that has to mess with one's natural flow to playing the game.   but you keep right on hating 05.

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Seriously if Goodwin shot 80% from the line then I believe he would have been all conference.  Oh...and we would have beat Davidson at home giving us a double bye.

 

The fact that our point guard was playing hot potato during game closeout against Duquesne says it all.  

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2 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

I don't even care about his 3 point shooting. If he can finish his chance at the rim and the line nobody would be talking about "regressing".

He needs to be able to hit an open 3 if left alone, but I concur if he can consistently finish at the rim, a lot of the other flaws can be overlooked (see Jordair Jett)

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@Taj79 why single out Goodwin?  French needs a ton of work.  Thatch needs a ton of work.  Hankton needs a ton of work.  Jacobs needs a ton of work.

You aren't looking at his full game.  He impacts the game way more than the stat line, maybe more than any other current Billiken.  Deflections, disruptions, hustle plays, diving on 50/50 balls, defense, leadership and on and on.  None of these are captured in your stats.  Does he need to step up his game.  Of course.  Who doesn't.

And this was all discussed in the Sophomore Slump thread.  Does it deserve another negative thread?

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Goodwin is a very unique player that requires a very unique offense to thrive in.  I don't think he would be thriving at Purdue, Iowa and Illinois either. Those are some of the other schools that offered him out of high school. But he can become a slightly better shooter so he can fit into a traditional offense. He just needs to focus this summer.

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10 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

@Taj79 why single out Goodwin?  French needs a ton of work.  Thatch needs a ton of work.  Hankton needs a ton of work.  Jacobs needs a ton of work.

You aren't looking at his full game.  He impacts the game way more than the stat line, maybe more than any other current Billiken.  Deflections, disruptions, hustle plays, diving on 50/50 balls, defense, leadership and on and on.  None of these are captured in your stats.  Does he need to step up his game.  Of course.  Who doesn't.

And this was all discussed in the Sophomore Slump thread.  Does it deserve another negative thread?

He leads the team in steals and assists. He Is second in rebounding and 3rd in scoring.  He is the leader of the team as a sophomore. He is helping bring in more local talent. He definitely needs to shoot better and i guarantee he is working on it. No it we dont need this thread.

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the bills play norman dale ball because they dont have the players to run up and down. the bills were horrific on fast break opportunities and horrific finishing around the rim  in general. they played to their strengths and offensively they didnt have many

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2 minutes ago, dennis_w said:

the bills play norman dale ball because they dont have the players to run up and down. the bills were horrific on fast break opportunities and horrific finishing around the rim  in general. they played to their strengths and offensively they didnt have many

They do seem to be putting it together and finishing fast breaks as of late which is encouraging.

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31 minutes ago, dennis_w said:

the bills play norman dale ball because they dont have the players to run up and down. the bills were horrific on fast break opportunities and horrific finishing around the rim  in general. they played to their strengths and offensively they didnt have many

We all remember the many, many missed layups.  But the Bills have averaged 8.4 fast break points per game this season.  Our opponents have average a little better at 8.9 fast break points ppg.

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