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Taj79

Jordan Goodwin Needs Tons of Work

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2 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

If Goodwin had not been a dominant scorer in high school and a top 50 player, expectations would have been lower. In fact he may not have played 30+ minutes right out of the box because if everyone remembers, he struggled mightily with his shooting in the first five games.

But he was pressed into heavy minutes early and eventulally played up to his ranking in the second half of the year.

It's not realistic to ask everyone to forget his high school ranking and the last 16 games of last season and instead judge him by the sophomore version of Jett or Conklin. He's a blue chip recruit. The expectations are much higher. That's what blue chip means.

If he never resumes his blue chip trajectory, that doesn't mean he won't be pivotal to our success. It just he means he fell short of lofty expectations. That wouldn't be his fault.  He's just a kid trying to get better. It's fans and media that get wrapped up in expectations.

Goodwin needs to play like Donnie Dobbs did — be a forward — or Coach Ford needs to utilize a different style of play to feature him.

Jordan can still be a star in the A-10, but he no longer projects as an NBA prospect without vast improvement to his shooting.

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5 minutes ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

Goodwin needs to play like Donnie Dobbs did — be a forward — or Coach Ford needs to utilize a different style of play to feature him.

Jordan can still be a star in the A-10, but he no longer projects as an NBA prospect without vast improvement to his shooting.

Fuok. I hate that we share this opinion.

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If Goodwin made his free throws this thread doesn't exist.

5 minutes ago, RiseOfTheBillikens said:

Here's your "Blue Chip" numbers. 

 

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Goodwin had a good year, not the year I was hoping for but it was good.

Of course he has a lot to work on. 95% of college sophomores have a lot to work on.

I’m expecting a huge jump next year. It has always seemed to me that players show the most improvement between sophomore and Junior years. 

 

 

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46 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Pretty darn good for someone who "needs tons of work". 

it is amazing to me that he did this good when he gets beat on the dribble all the time and isnt quick enough to get to the rim.   one would think that would keep him off the floor so much he couldnt accumulate any of the rebounds, steals and assists.  amazing.  

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59 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

it is amazing to me that he did this good when he gets beat on the dribble all the time and isnt quick enough to get to the rim.   one would think that would keep him off the floor so much he couldnt accumulate any of the rebounds, steals and assists.  amazing.  

Your blue font not working, Broy?

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8 minutes ago, slu72 said:

Your blue font not working, Broy?

such an esteemed learned board poster made the "all the things wrong with goodwin" proclamation i just took it for gospel. 

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3 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

If Goodwin made his free throws this thread doesn't exist.

 

If Goodwin shot free throws at an average rate we are talking about him increasing his scoring average by less than a point per game.

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3 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

Pretty darn good for someone who "needs tons of work". 

The title of this thread is ridiculous. Also, ridiculous to blame the coach for some of JG's disappointing play. More accurate to say JG clearly needs work on a couple of things to elevate his game to all-conference level - which I think all can agree he has the potential to be.

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Anyone think Goodwin would have even more assists this year if Henriquez had lined up  on the 3 point line as Coach Ford had planned?  Anyone think better perimeter shooting would have opened up more space for Goodwin to drive to the basket so he could have scored maybe 2 more baskets each game or so?  Anyone think Ty Graves could have helped Goodwin shoulder some of the PG duties this year so Goodwin could have focused more on other parts of his game?  

Next year, if Jimerson and Collins are able to assist in this regard, then will we all say that Goodwin must have had Conklin Summer?

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7 minutes ago, Clock_Tower said:

Anyone think Goodwin would have even more assists this year if Henriquez had lined up  on the 3 point line as Coach Ford had planned?  Anyone think better perimeter shooting would have opened up more space for Goodwin to drive to the basket so he could have scored maybe 2 more baskets each game or so?  Anyone think Ty Graves could have helped Goodwin shoulder some of the PG duties this year so Goodwin could have focused more on other parts of his game?  

Next year, if Jimerson and Collins are able to assist in this regard, then will we all say that Goodwin must have had Conklin Summer?

Excellent post.  Power players need more room to operate than shooters do.

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8 hours ago, cheeseman said:

All this whining is probably due to that some had over hyped the team and now they have to justify that their over hype was not their fault but the team's fault for not meeting their lofty and perhaps not attainable goals.  This team had holes and we all knew it - the perimeter shooting troubles were not a surprise and the loss of Santos and Gordon trashed the offensive production.

Yes because it was silly to think this team would finish better than 10-8 in conference or that Jordan Goodwin would have a shooting line better than 39/25/52. Are you saying you expected 10-8 or 39/25/52? See, I think Jordan Goodwin is better than that, so yes, my expectations were for better. Wanna bet Jordan also expected better of himself? Think that's what he expected from the team or himself? Hell, Jordan would probably be surprised that you think those numbers are what should be expected from him

now they have to justify that their over hype was not their fault but the team's fault for not meeting their lofty and perhaps not attainable goals.  This is just a ridiculous statement. 

https://bustingbrackets.com/2018/08/06/atlantic-10-basketball-preseason-rankings-for-2018-19/14/

https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/article/2018-10-19/college-basketball-10-predictions-2018-19-season

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The best thing Goodwin can do to improve his performance is stop missing bunnies. It will be great if the additions next season give him room to work, but it won’t help all that much if he struggles on gimmes like he did all too often this season.

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People don't like my thread.  I can respect that.  But there are supporting comments that can see the forest for the trees.  The stats posted here under "Blue Chip" are wonderful.  If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshite.  If all else fails, use statistics.  I did.

Does anybody disagree .... in other words Jordan needs no work?  

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7 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

People don't like my thread.  I can respect that.  But there are supporting comments that can see the forest for the trees.  The stats posted here under "Blue Chip" are wonderful.  If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshite.  If all else fails, use statistics.  I did.

Does anybody disagree .... in other words Jordan needs no work?  

I think JGood is a valuable player to this team. Does he need to improve his game in certain areas? Of course, every player should always be trying to improve from what ever level he starts until they hang it up. 

But by Tons? You made it sound like he was a total disappointment by using the phrase by tons. Clearly that's a very narrow point of view. You played ball. Did your coach ever tell you or your team mates about someone playing a great floor game? Doesn't always show up in the stat sheet, but their contributions helped the team in other ways. 

JGood does that. For sure, there are aspects of his game that need improvement; perimeter and mid range jumpers, FT%, and fewer TO's. But when you say Tons, you make him sound like a liability. He's not. Next time you see him apologize. The kid's a gamer. What more can you ask? 

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18 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

People don't like my thread.  I can respect that.  But there are supporting comments that can see the forest for the trees.  The stats posted here under "Blue Chip" are wonderful.  If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshite.  If all else fails, use statistics.  I did.

Does anybody disagree .... in other words Jordan needs no work?  

J-Good needs to improve; it's not debatable.  But to say, "tons of work," is hyperbole at best and misleading and harmful at worst.

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Just now, Quality Is Job 1 said:

J-Good needs to improve; it's not debatable.  But to say, "tons of work," is hyperbole at best and misleading and harmful at worst.

If I would take a solid guess, Isabel and Goodwin didn't get the reconition they wanted from A10 awards and SLU responded with those two stat filled tweets about them..

 

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1 hour ago, Taj79 said:

People don't like my thread.  I can respect that.  But there are supporting comments that can see the forest for the trees.  The stats posted here under "Blue Chip" are wonderful.  If you can't dazzle 'em with brilliance, baffle 'em with bullshite.  If all else fails, use statistics.  I did.

Does anybody disagree .... in other words Jordan needs no work?  

Anyone can look at a stat sheet and write an essay.  You took a slice of his game, ignored some of his elite attributes and drew your conclusions expressed in your very poorly worded title to this thread.  That is an injustice to a fine Billiken student athlete.   I suggest that you watch game tape if you want to make a true evaluation of a player.  

Please list the players that don't need to improve. 

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To start with, every single new recruit coming into the team next season (72% of the team) will need to improve, at least in the sense of getting to know what D1 play is all about and meshing in with the team. Then we know that both Jacobs and Hankton need to improve because they did not play much this season. That leaves us with three players which we hope will get better but which will be the core of the team next season. Make no mistake to get next season's team ready to play will be a huge amount of work.

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Anybody want to disagree that Javon Bess' shot needed tons of work?  And what did that kid do?   Recognized it.  Went into the gym.  At 6 am.  Put up thousands of shots.  Made himself our most reliable distance shooter.  First team all conference.  Defensive POY.  I think even he said defense is internal desire.  Rodman used to talk about rebounding being wanting it more.  Wilt said "I'm going to average 50" and then went out and did it.  To me, that's 'tons' of work.  You can't really teach hustle and desire.  Goodwin has that.  The best player on our returning roster?  Arguably yes.  But shooting is a skill set that only comes with tons of work.  Especially if you're not a natural at it and from what Jordan has shown to date, he's not that.  And I don't think a kid of that character would see himself as a sacred cow devoid of criticism.  We're damn lucky to have him.  But the next level ---- for him, for us, for the team ---- is going to be achieved only through his efforts to improve in his offensive game and role.  

And its him, French and Thatch coming back and without tons of work over this summer and next preseason, he ---and we --- won't advance from the current middle of the road team we currently have become.  

 

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14 minutes ago, Taj79 said:

Anybody want to disagree that Javon Bess' shot needed tons of work?  And what did that kid do?   Recognized it.  Went into the gym.  At 6 am.  Put up thousands of shots.  Made himself our most reliable distance shooter.  First team all conference.  Defensive POY.  I think even he said defense is internal desire.  Rodman used to talk about rebounding being wanting it more.  Wilt said "I'm going to average 50" and then went out and did it.  To me, that's 'tons' of work.  You can't really teach hustle and desire.  Goodwin has that.  The best player on our returning roster?  Arguably yes.  But shooting is a skill set that only comes with tons of work.  Especially if you're not a natural at it and from what Jordan has shown to date, he's not that.  And I don't think a kid of that character would see himself as a sacred cow devoid of criticism.  We're damn lucky to have him.  But the next level ---- for him, for us, for the team ---- is going to be achieved only through his efforts to improve in his offensive game and role.  

And its him, French and Thatch coming back and without tons of work over this summer and next preseason, he ---and we --- won't advance from the current middle of the road team we currently have become.  

 

Taj

You now seem to be suggesting that everyone needs a ton of work (agreed) and yet your original post appears to have singled out just Goodwin. 

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1 hour ago, brianstl said:

The best thing Goodwin can do to improve his performance is stop missing bunnies. It will be great if the additions next season give him room to work, but it won’t help all that much if he struggles on gimmes like he did all too often this season.

Oddly (or maybe not), he plays with so much energy that his shots seem to be way too strong (bunnies, FTs, etc.).  

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