Glorydays2013 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Being one of the top teams in the nation defensively has its perks. No other team in the A10 has close to as good of defense as us other than VCU. Even though we don’t have a consistent leading scorer, we consistently close out opponents top scorers everytime. Most notable is Butler and Seton Hall where their top scorer wasn’t even close to their average. Why is this important? Well the A10 teams that will fight us for the conference title have shown us that they are very beatable when playing against teams with defenses that shut out their top players. A shut out Grady and Loki is a lost Davidson team ( Bess and Thatch will shut them out) A shut out Charlie Brown can make a 30 point win over the hawks A shut out Pipkins is a dead Umass team A shut out Grant golden is a bad Richmond team A shut out Cunningham is a beatable Dayton team. Marcus Evans is the only player on a team that I don’t know if being shut out will garuntee a win. The conference season is ours for the taking. We have 7 players who can put up double digit games any given day. While Bess is our best scorer now, our offense is not a “get the ball to Bess” offense Just remember Ford’s team last year was a lot better during conference than non conference besides Vtech in almost every way possible gabriel likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBFan Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Appreciate your enthusiasm for the team and I agree with your opinion about our defence but I respectfully disagree that we don’t have an elite consistent scorer. Jevon Bess is consistent game in and game out and I think his scoring average will increase as the season progresses and get to the elite scorer status. In my opinion Jevon is really special and I want so bad for our team to get him in the big dance. NextYearBill and RamJAMTIME like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorydays2013 Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 39 minutes ago, CBFan said: Appreciate your enthusiasm for the team and I agree with your opinion about our defence but I respectfully disagree that we don’t have an elite consistent scorer. Jevon Bess is consistent game in and game out and I think his scoring average will increase as the season progresses and get to the elite scorer status. In my opinion Jevon is really special and I want so bad for our team to get him in the big dance. Saying he isn’t an elite scorer is not saying he isn’t an elite player. 14 ppg is good but not elite level for a scorer. ,18+ ppg would be elite level imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnnyJumpUp Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 5 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said: Saying he isn’t an elite scorer is not saying he isn’t an elite player. 14 ppg is good but not elite level for a scorer. ,18+ ppg would be elite level imo. You never explained why not having an elite consistent scorer is a good thing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Pelican Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 Just now, JohnnyJumpUp said: You never explained why not having an elite consistent scorer is a good thing Without speaking for him, it seems that he feels our offense is more by committee than just one individual. I kind of agree. However, our offense is also prone to cold spells. I think our team is gonna live and die with defense and rebounding. Sound familiar by the way? Glorydays2013 likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
White Pelican Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 11 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said: Saying he isn’t an elite scorer is not saying he isn’t an elite player. 14 ppg is good but not elite level for a scorer. ,18+ ppg would be elite level imo. This is not a high power offense, and like our teams in the past, we seem to like to run some clock before we get into our "offense". So 14 on this team ain't bad. I thought we'd be more of a run and gun but even when we do get out on a break, we almost always screw it up. So that ain't helping either. Littlebill likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBFan Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 7 hours ago, Glorydays2013 said: Saying he isn’t an elite scorer is not saying he isn’t an elite player. 14 ppg is good but not elite level for a scorer. ,18+ ppg would be elite level imo. I think he will get to the 18 plus threshold by seasons end. An elite scorer can create his own shots Bess does that all of the time when he finds a spot on the floor and gracefully takes that shot inside the three point line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 8 hours ago, White Pelican said: I thought we'd be more of a run and gun but even when we do get out on a break, we almost always screw it up. So that ain't helping either. Agreed. The way we rebound and with the athletic ability of these players I really thought we'd be a fast break machine. We do at times but as u said we have an alarming tendency to eff up what should be easy points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextYearBill Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 so when you ignore a poster... how do you ignore all the crappy threads they start? thetorch and Billiken Rich like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 9 hours ago, JohnnyJumpUp said: You never explained why not having an elite consistent scorer is a good thing He has a career in clickbait headline writing if the seminary doesn’t work out. Billiken Rich and Spoon-Balls like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brianstl Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 3 hours ago, CBFan said: I think he will get to the 18 plus threshold by seasons end. An elite scorer can create his own shots Bess does that all of the time when he finds a spot on the floor and gracefully takes that shot inside the three point line. To reach the 18 point threshold for the season he would have to average just under 20 ppg from here on out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorydays2013 Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 11 hours ago, JohnnyJumpUp said: You never explained why not having an elite consistent scorer is a good thing Because if there is a lockdown defense and your top player is shut out of a game, the team becomes lost when the player they relied on is no longer in play. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 9 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said: Because if there is a lockdown defense and your top player is shut out of a game, the team becomes lost when the player they relied on is no longer in play. You were smoking weed when you came up with this right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorydays2013 Posted December 18, 2018 Author Share Posted December 18, 2018 41 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said: You were smoking weed when you came up with this right? In the A10, the best teams fall a whole letter grade without their top guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 6 minutes ago, Glorydays2013 said: In the A10, the best teams fall a whole letter grade without their top guy So it’s bad to have an elite player on your team because he *might* get shut down? You were definitely high. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 I can't stand the title of this thread, and 05 is correct that it reads like clickbait. I listen to almost no sports radio/discussion/etc. because most arguments are inane and a waste of my time, and perhaps the most egregious of these are label arguments (e.g. what constitutes an "elite" athlete). That said, I'll go ahead and take a crack at the premise here. I disagree that we're in a good situation because we don't have an "elite consistent scorer" (again, whatever "elite" means) for a few reasons: -We don't have consistent scorers, period. Bess is the closest thing we've got and has really worked to become a better scorer, but he's just well-rounded and solid. He's not a killer from the perimeter (although much improved), he's not super quick going to the basket, and he doesn't tend to pile up points as part of a big run. And let's face it, when he had the ball in his hands to tie it at the buzzer in Houston, he chucked up a panicky airball. We don't have the guy you feel a high level of confidence in when he has the ball in his hands at the end of the game. It's not a knock on Bess. It's just not who he is. Our next leading scorer, Isabell, is the opposite of consistent. We're not winning because we don't have that kind of big-time scorer, we're winning despite it. -We're winning with defense. Period. -Who wouldn't want to add an "elite consistent scorer" to this group? Can you imagine if we had a guy who could score on three levels and put up 20 a night? We'd be 10-0, easily. Instead, we've been grinding it out all season without any truly comfortable wins. -Yes, a team's fortunes could rise and fall with that go-to guy, who might have an off night or be shut down by another team's Javon Bess-type stopper. But again, this team is pretty solid in other ways - namely, defense - that mitigate such risk. And if that player draws a tough defensive assignment on a given night, it opens things up for everyone else. The way we've struggled to score this season, I don't think "lack of go-to scorer" is a notch in the positive column. Spoon-Balls, JohnnyJumpUp, Zink and 3 others like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted December 18, 2018 Share Posted December 18, 2018 The biggest problem with the offense to this point has been Goodwin. While Bess has gone up in most offensive statistical categories, Goodwin has gone down - ppg, apg, ft% around 50%, 3-point % better than last year but still below 30%, plus turnovers are up. In order for this team to be special, Goodwin needs to raise his game the way Bess has. I also think the Wiley injury can't be underestimated either. We don't win the Seton Hall game without him. He was out for all or most of our three losses. A couple of timely threes in any of those games would have made a big difference. slufan13, CBFan and Zink like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgeldmacher Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 I disagree with your position in that every team would love a consistent scorer. However, as I was reading it, I felt like the judge in My Cousin Vinny when Vinny made his objection to the surprise evidence coming in. "Glory, that was a lucid, intelligent, well-thought out point you made.....OVERRULED." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said: I disagree with your position in that every team would love a consistent scorer. However, as I was reading it, I felt like the judge in My Cousin Vinny when Vinny made his objection to the surprise evidence coming in. "Glory, that was a lucid, intelligent, well-thought out point you made.....OVERRULED." What's your reason for this? Just a reminder here that we're 322nd in the country in scoring as of today. That's right around the 10th percentile nationally. TheChosenOne likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quality Is Job 1 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 19 minutes ago, Pistol said: What's your reason for this? Just a reminder here that we're 322nd in the country in scoring as of today. That's right around the 10th percentile nationally. You're in agreement. @cgeldmacher is saying, "I disagree with [glorydays], because every team would love a consistent scorer." That's in the "... in that...." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlarry Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 2 types of teams don’t want elite consistent scorers. 1. Teams hoping that their coach gets fired. 2. NBA teams hoping to improve their draft lottery odds. Billiken Rich likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
juniorbill76 Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 With next year's elite scorer(s) coming in we might be able to do a comparison, depending on how quickly they're ready for D1 competition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3star_recruit Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 I've accepted that Goodwin's high school efficiency in the paint just doesn't translate at this level. At Althoff he could bully his way to the basket. At this level he needs to develop a counter when defenses take that away, a la Roosevelt Jones floater at Butler. Without that counter, Goodwin's ceiling is about 12 ppg. The underclassmen currently on the roster with the highest offensive ceiling is Gordon. As other posters have pointed out, he needs an offseason of conditioning. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 20 minutes ago, juniorbill76 said: With next year's elite scorer(s) coming in we might be able to do a comparison, depending on how quickly they're ready for D1 competition. typically (unless you are kentucky or duke) in coming freshmen are not "elite scorers......yet. look at the uneven results of gordon and thatch thus far. and these are two of the best freshmen we have had come in to slu in awhile. was it spoon that said, "the best thing about freshmen is that they turn into sophomores"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Posted December 19, 2018 Share Posted December 19, 2018 3 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said: I've accepted that Goodwin's high school efficiency in the paint just doesn't translate at this level. At Althoff he could bully his way to the basket. At this level he needs to develop a counter when defenses take that away, a la Roosevelt Jones floater at Butler. Without that counter, Goodwin's ceiling is about 12 ppg. The underclassmen currently on the roster with the highest offensive ceiling is Gordon. As other posters have pointed out, he needs an offseason of conditioning. -the part of JGood's game that has me more perplexed is how he is getting beat off the dribble, that didn't happen last season to this frequency that I can recall -as to CAG, what the heck was he and the staff doing over the summer? I don't remember that he was hurt and couldn't get in shape. I know CFord has said CAG goes all out when in the game, an assessment I question, and someone on here wondered if CAG didn't know how big a jump it is from high school to our level, but I am shocked at the number of times he walks to the offensive end and is really huffing and puffing but I agree he could be really, really good and eventually make a lot of $$$$ HoosierPal likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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