Fall 2017 allegations against unnamed players (aka Situation 2)

[SLU_Lax]

1 minute ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

I see Lavar Ball pulled his son out of school, so it’s entirelu possible they never play a game here. Hopefully it works out and they can stay. UCLA might be a good litmus test to see how programs handle multi player suspensions. I understand the alleged crimes are different.

You also seem to be presuming that our players are guilty of a criminal act.  At least Lavar's kid admitted to the theft (not sure about the other two).  It does not appear that our player's committed a crime.

The purported infractions themselves are also wholly different.  Your comparison seems to be apple and oranges.  I do not know how any reasonable comparison could be drawn.

[Billy Ken]

I think the biggest frustration is just always expecting slu to just make a decision and try to do the right thing. Whether it's popular or not, just do the right thing and only worry about that, nothing else. They struggle sometimes always trying to make everyone happy, especially this president.

But hey president is all over Noodle shop coming to slu!

[STL Hoops Insider]

49 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

What other school has had student athletes accused of sexual assault and handled it differently?  I would like to know.  If other schools allow athletes to continue playing while a Title IX investigation is pending, then I may change my opinion.  If SLU is the only one doing this, then let me know.  I am truly not sure about this.  If HenryB doesn't know then can other posters enlighten us.

I want to say Jameis Winston played through this at Florida State and maybe multiple basketball players at Kansas over the years. Am I remembering it wrong?

[Old guy]

Lavar Ball is an ass, his son would have served a long time in a Chinese prison for shoplifting if diplomatic pressure had not been brought to bear on China. So he acts all upset and pulls the kid from the school. 

[kmbilliken]

What is the definition of sexual exploitation?

[Old guy]

In its most basic and time honored definition it is the relationship between a pimp and his girls.

[HoosierPal]

1 hour ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

I want to say Jameis Winston played through this at Florida State and maybe multiple basketball players at Kansas over the years. Am I remembering it wrong?

Yes Winston did play. And FSU then paid $950,000 to settle a lawsuit that they mishandled the Title IX investigation. Great example. 

[JMM28]

26 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Yes Winston did play. And FSU then paid $950,000 to settle a lawsuit that they mishandled the Title IX investigation. Great example. 

They finished money way ahead on that one. 

[STL Hoops Insider]

24 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Yes Winston did play. And FSU then paid $950,000 to settle a lawsuit that they mishandled the Title IX investigation. Great example. 

Do you think Winston brought in more revenue than he cost them?  He won the Heisman, and National Championship, none of which has been taken away to my knowledge. What would’ve been gained by suspending him?  No one even talks about the bad press anymore.

[The Wiz]

I have pointed out in some earlier posts that even with the 60 day recommendation in Title IX, the average length of the proceedings is 3-4 months with many lasting as much as 6 months. The purpose of those posts was to make the  board aware that these hearings might not be simple and quick. If the case is not resolved by the SEMO game on 12/22,  it then becomes an average Title IX case time wise.

The clock continues.......Tick, tick, tick 

[AnkielBreakers]

I am not super happy about the announcement, but I am less frustrated than before.  At least they said something.   It makes some sense to be silent.  You cannot make everyone happy with any suspension you give, so why not be silent. However, there was too much information coming out, something needed to be said. Sure, I still doubt whether the school’s silence is a way to quietly suspend the players for a long duration,  but at least We can say they said something.

[brianstl]

2 hours ago, cgeldmacher said:

What other school has had student athletes accused of sexual assault and handled it differently?  I would like to know.  If other schools allow athletes to continue playing while a Title IX investigation is pending, then I may change my opinion.  If SLU is the only one doing this, then let me know.  I am truly not sure about this.  If HenryB doesn't know then can other posters enlighten us.

It will probably be hard to find any cases when legal authorities have not taken into custody or in some other way named a suspect when the players are not given an interim suspensions.  That is because other schools respect their students confidentiality in those cases and don’t do anything to identify them.  Because of that, those cases don’t come to public attention.

Why don’t you try to find a case when a player has been suspended in similar situation to SLU?

[HoosierPal]

1 hour ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

Do you think Winston brought in more revenue than he cost them?  He won the Heisman, and National Championship, none of which has been taken away to my knowledge. What would’ve been gained by suspending him?  No one even talks about the bad press anymore.

I can’t believe you are even asking this question. So violating student Title IX rights is okay if you profit from it. Unbelievable. 

[BillIkenFan_Dan]

Ik we were just informed they weren’t gonna play anytime soon but this is at least a little reassuring 

[BillIkenFan_Dan]

That is AD If anyone is wondering 

[almaman]

I was. I'm guessing from his handle he won't be afraid to shoot.

[DeSmetBilliken]

4 hours ago, cgeldmacher said:

You just read the statement from Pestello that said that the external company hired to conduct the investigation has not completed it.  This means that it is out of Pestello's hands and certainly way far out of the Athletic Department's hands.  You translated that into SLU is dragging out the investigation to punish students who don't deserve punishment.  You prefaced your comment by saying "If" this is what they are doing and then labeled SLU shady based upon what you admit is your own guessing about the situation.

I'm not trying to pick on you, but this is the craziness that we're hearing on this board right now.  The company conducting the investigation hasn't finished it.  The rules allow them beyond 60 days.  SLU is being told the report is coming this week.  Common man.

You could have a point, but I think the key issue is what level of control SLU has over the investigation. Did SLU send it off and wasn’t able to get any updates or direct anything with regard to it? If so, you could be right. I just have a hard time thinking of a client asking my employer to work on a project and being completely in the dark about anything going on. Maybe Title IX requires that; I don’t know.

[Old guy]

Being completely in the dark and desiring to make a public announcement are two very different things as they mar relate to this title IX process. 

[STL Hoops Insider]

3 hours ago, SLU_Lax said:

You also seem to be presuming that our players are guilty of a criminal act.  At least Lavar's kid admitted to the theft (not sure about the other two).  It does not appear that our player's committed a crime.

The purported infractions themselves are also wholly different.  Your comparison seems to be apple and oranges.  I do not know how any reasonable comparison could be drawn.

I said “alleged” and that the crimes were different 

[STL Hoops Insider]

1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

I can’t believe you are even asking this question. So violating student Title IX rights is okay if you profit from it. Unbelievable. 

I didn’t say anything about violating anything. They would’ve cost themselves a national title for no reason. Suspending the player from the games while they still remain a student and member of the team is not some how protecting any students Title IX Rights.

[TheA_Bomb]

The standard I'd endorse for this type of situation is this:

1. If players are criminally indicted then they are suspended pending the outcome of criminal/T IX investigation/adjudication

2. If players are not criminally indicted then allow them to play during the T IX investigation/adjudication

As already pointed out these guys are basically being punished right now.  If an indictment were to occur it probably would've by now.  You usually know pretty quick.  So the evidence of misconduct didn't' even raise to the level necessary for an indictment which is normally probable cause.  I understand SLU Code of Conduct is not criminal law and we have different standards.  I think that 1 semester suspension is adequate for engaging in sex on campus and filming it.  That suspension should've come, in my opinion, after the investigation. If that was the final determination.  The suspension right now is basically punishment without due process.  So these players are highlighted as offenders, missing key games which could impact future earnings and they may all be innocent.  Now, if there was some concern about the safety of Students on campus then they shouldn't be allowed on campus or School functions.  They obviously are so safety is most likely not a concern.

All that is in AD and Freddy P's control.  So yeah, I think they are bungling this stuff.  Only thing they've done relatively well is keep quiet.

Reasonable people can disagree on the pre-emptive suspension.  I get it.

[Old guy]

I too thought this was the way it would go, but that did not happen.

[Bills_06]

2 hours ago, TheA_Bomb said:

The standard I'd endorse for this type of situation is this:

1. If players are criminally indicted then they are suspended pending the outcome of criminal/T IX investigation/adjudication

2. If players are not criminally indicted then allow them to play during the T IX investigation/adjudication

As already pointed out these guys are basically being punished right now.  If an indictment were to occur it probably would've by now.  You usually know pretty quick.  So the evidence of misconduct didn't' even raise to the level necessary for an indictment which is normally probable cause.  I understand SLU Code of Conduct is not criminal law and we have different standards.  I think that 1 semester suspension is adequate for engaging in sex on campus and filming it.  That suspension should've come, in my opinion, after the investigation. If that was the final determination.  The suspension right now is basically punishment without due process.  So these players are highlighted as offenders, missing key games which could impact future earnings and they may all be innocent.  Now, if there was some concern about the safety of Students on campus then they shouldn't be allowed on campus or School functions.  They obviously are so safety is most likely not a concern.

All that is in AD and Freddy P's control.  So yeah, I think they are bungling this stuff.  Only thing they've done relatively well is keep quiet.

Reasonable people can disagree on the pre-emptive suspension.  I get it.

I agree this is the path they should've taken.  I guess the only silver lining is if it's just a semester and time served should count, then they will be back for conference play.  Would've been even more difficult watching the full team now and then losing them come next month.  If time served doesn't count then they really screwed it up.  

[Tilkowsky]

11 hours ago, STL Hoops Insider said:

Do you think Winston brought in more revenue than he cost them?  He won the Heisman, and National Championship, none of which has been taken away to my knowledge. What would’ve been gained by suspending him?  No one even talks about the bad press anymore.

You want SLU to be FloridaState? Just because FloridaState has no ethics is that what you want for SLU?

SLU is a Catholic University and should be better than the Florida State's of the world.

SLU isn't winning the NCAA's anyway. So no problem, right?

[slufanskip]

2 hours ago, TheA_Bomb said:

The standard I'd endorse for this type of situation is this:

1. If players are criminally indicted then they are suspended pending the outcome of criminal/T IX investigation/adjudication

2. If players are not criminally indicted then allow them to play during the T IX investigation/adjudication

As already pointed out these guys are basically being punished right now.  If an indictment were to occur it probably would've by now.  You usually know pretty quick.  So the evidence of misconduct didn't' even raise to the level necessary for an indictment which is normally probable cause.  I understand SLU Code of Conduct is not criminal law and we have different standards.  I think that 1 semester suspension is adequate for engaging in sex on campus and filming it.  That suspension should've come, in my opinion, after the investigation. If that was the final determination.  The suspension right now is basically punishment without due process.  So these players are highlighted as offenders, missing key games which could impact future earnings and they may all be innocent.  Now, if there was some concern about the safety of Students on campus then they shouldn't be allowed on campus or School functions.  They obviously are so safety is most likely not a concern.

All that is in AD and Freddy P's control.  So yeah, I think they are bungling this stuff.  Only thing they've done relatively well is keep quiet.

Reasonable people can disagree on the pre-emptive suspension.  I get it.

+1. And educators shouldn't be in the business of regulating the sexual morality or conduct of adults within the law.