Fall 2017 allegations against unnamed players (aka Situation 2)

[moytoy12]

59 minutes ago, GBL_Bills said:

While the University's Sexual Misconduct Policy states that the internal Title IX process (investigation, hearing, and appeal) will be completed in 60 days, it allows that process to be extended for “good cause,” such as the “complexity of the circumstances of each allegation, and the integrity and completeness of the investigation.” This is the reason this case has extended beyond the 60-day goal.

We expect the University will receive the preliminary investigatory report from the external investigator this week, after which the next phase of the process, as detailed in the policy, will begin.

 

This also reeks of a law firm milking hours. 

[Tilkowsky]

11 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

so discouraging.   just total b.s. by saint louis university.   expel the kids and give them their freedom.   amazingly it seems that would be in their best interest.  

You really want them expelled?

How is that in their best interest?

[brianstl]

If I am the players, I am transferring at the semester break.  Maybe that is actually the schools goal instead of having to reach a decision that will piss somebody off.  Pretty sad.

[brianstl]

Just now, brianstl said:

If I am the players, I am transferring at the semester break.  Maybe that is actually the schools goal instead of having to reach a decision that will piss somebody off.  Pretty sad.

The more I think about this, I really believe this is what SLU is hoping will happen.

[JMM28]

In my experience, when someone has to consistently talk about something being fair and having integrity - they have neither. 

[billiken_roy]

6 minutes ago, Tilkowsky said:

You really want them expelled?

How is that in their best interest?

they could play immediately for a D2, Naia or D3 school.   plenty of successful players at those levels went on to after college basketball careers.   they obviously arent going to get a fair shake here, so move along asap.   as brian states, at least transfer at the break which is in less than 2 weeks.   

[RiseAndGrind]

guessing we will never see any of the 3 players actually play in a game based on this statement. 

[3star_recruit]

A season discarded in the interest of political correctness. But at least the University got our season ticket money.

[615Billiken]

14 minutes ago, brianstl said:

If I am the players, I am transferring at the semester break.  Maybe that is actually the schools goal instead of having to reach a decision that will piss somebody off.  Pretty sad.

If I am Ford, I am 'trasnfering' at the end of the season.

[HenryB]

1 hour ago, GBL_Bills said:

I think (hope) it's probably going to work out for the best. In my mind, most likely scenario: players guilty of sexual exploitation, handed down a semester suspension from games, games not played counts towards that semester. If they add an additional semester of punishment, that's some bull (unless of course, the players did something worse than the rumors imply)

This will probably work out for the best...really???????? Are you talking about the lawyers? Certainly not the players, the team, the coaches, or the fans. If someone was plotting to destroy the basketball program for the next decade they couldn't scheme any better than our administration.  I can't wait for the campaign to sell season tickets next year!!! 

[cgeldmacher]

1 hour ago, DeSmetBilliken said:

I don’t know if this is a brilliant strategic move by SLU, or borderline misconduct. Remember, Mitchell and Reed had to leave school and reapply. This time, they’ve allowed them to continue taking classes, practice with the team, even travel with the team, but outwardly look like the school is being really tough to the 99% of people out there who are clueless. In some ways, it’s the perfect plan.

On the other hand, if this extended investigation is a way to shoehorn a punishment when one wasn’t deserved, that’s kind of shady by SLU.

You just read the statement from Pestello that said that the external company hired to conduct the investigation has not completed it.  This means that it is out of Pestello's hands and certainly way far out of the Athletic Department's hands.  You translated that into SLU is dragging out the investigation to punish students who don't deserve punishment.  You prefaced your comment by saying "If" this is what they are doing and then labeled SLU shady based upon what you admit is your own guessing about the situation.

I'm not trying to pick on you, but this is the craziness that we're hearing on this board right now.  The company conducting the investigation hasn't finished it.  The rules allow them beyond 60 days.  SLU is being told the report is coming this week.  Common man.

[cgeldmacher]

1 hour ago, HenryB said:

Nothing....the letter just confirms the speculation shared by many that this entire process has been a sham, revealing a void of leadership, motivated by political correctness.  Sickening.

Everyone's brains have broken over this:

SLU hires an outside firm to investigate the allegations of sexual assault - Reasonable or Unreasonable: answer reasonable.

The investigation by the outside firm takes more than 60 days, which is within the rules - Reasonable or Unreasonable - I can see unreasonable on this, although we don't know the facts, but it's the outside firm, not the University.

What part of hiring an outside firm that is taking a little longer than you would like is a "sham?"  Or "revealing a void of leadership?" Or "motivated by political correct?" or "sickening?"

This board is making my head hurt.

 

 

[615Billiken]

2 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

Everyone's brains have broken over this:

SLU hires an outside firm to investigate the allegations of sexual assault - Reasonable or Unreasonable: answer reasonable.

The investigation by the outside firm takes more than 60 days, which is within the rules - Reasonable or Unreasonable - I can see unreasonable on this, although we don't know the facts, but it's the outside firm, not the University.

What part of hiring an outside firm that is taking a little longer than you would like is a "sham?"  Or "revealing a void of leadership?" Or "motivated by political correct?" or "sickening?"

This board is making my head hurt.

 

 

Exactly. Then you have the people who will say “Pestello should fire the outside firm if they aren’t doing it fast enough”. But then how does that look?

[cgeldmacher]

Just now, 615Billiken said:

Exactly. Then you have the people who will say “Pestello should fire the outside firm if they aren’t doing it fast enough”. But then how does that look?

Once you hire an outside firm, which had to be done quickly, you can't fire them later.  It both looks bad and would make everything take longer.

[HenryB]

4 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

You just read the statement from Pestello that said that the external company hired to conduct the investigation has not completed it.  This means that it is out of Pestello's hands and certainly way far out of the Athletic Department's hands.  You translated that into SLU is dragging out the investigation to punish students who don't deserve punishment.  You prefaced your comment by saying "If" this is what they are doing and then labeled SLU shady based upon what you admit is your own guessing about the situation.

I'm not trying to pick on you, but this is the craziness that we're hearing on this board right now.  The company conducting the investigation hasn't finished it.  The rules allow them beyond 60 days.  SLU is being told the report is coming this week.  Common man.

Title 1X is not new, neither is sex, drinking, irresponsibility,  and utter stupidity.   This crap occurs in every D1 program.   But no one deals with it like SLU. The board is totally justified by their response.  We have been putting up with this garbage for decades. Our weak, pathetic administration is trying to figure out what to do by sticking their finger into the winds of political correctness and they can't decide what way it is blowing.  It is sickening.  And by the way, the finger they are sticking up is the middle one and it is pointing right at the people who have faithfully endured this crap for years.  Enough is enough.

[cgeldmacher]

Just now, HenryB said:

Title 1X is not new, neither is sex, drinking, irresponsibility,  and utter stupidity.   This crap occurs in every D1 program.   But no one deals with it like SLU. The board is totally justified by their response.  We have been putting up with this garbage for decades. Our weak, pathetic administration is trying to figure out what to do by sticking their finger into the winds of political correctness and they can't decide what way it is blowing.  It is sickening.  And by the way, the finger they are sticking up is the middle one and it is pointing right at the people who have faithfully endured this crap for years.  Enough is enough.

What other school has had student athletes accused of sexual assault and handled it differently?  I would like to know.  If other schools allow athletes to continue playing while a Title IX investigation is pending, then I may change my opinion.  If SLU is the only one doing this, then let me know.  I am truly not sure about this.  If HenryB doesn't know then can other posters enlighten us.

[NH]

1 hour ago, brianstl said:

The more I think about this, I really believe this is what SLU is hoping will happen.

If that’s the case, I don’t think they have a good plan in mind. Two of the players have already transferred and I have to think are unlikely to transfer again.

For a long time I thought SLU was handling this very well. But it’s drawn on far too long and the recent public statements make the U look clumsy.

Im a lot more likely to blame incompetence than maliciousness however. 

[Billy Ken]

So these players are allowed to go to NY and practice....so basically everything except play? I don't understand this at all. Why did Pestello send the letter he sent out today on September 25???? It never ends, reactive vs proactive. 

[slufan13]

This situation was always going to end with one side being unhappy. SLU is going to find a way to make both sides unhappy.

Honest question. Is it normal for schools to outsource these investigations?

In my opinion, SLU botched the interim suspensions and their suspensions are in direct contradiction to today's statement.

[slu72 fan]

5 minutes ago, Billy Ken said:

So these players are allowed to go to NY and practice....so basically everything except play? I don't understand this at all. Why did Pestello send the letter he sent out today on September 25???? It never ends, reactive vs proactive. 

 By allowing them to practice, if they are cleared, they’ll be ready to play right away. Also, having them on the road keeps them out of trouble.  

[prebilliken]

7 minutes ago, slufan13 said:

This situation was always going to end with one side being unhappy. SLU is going to find a way to make both sides unhappy.

Honest question. Is it normal for schools to outsource these investigations?

In my opinion, SLU botched the interim suspensions and their suspensions are in direct contradiction to today's statement.

Since Penn State and Baylor plus a number of other examples, yes, it is extremely normal for schools to outsource these investigations. 

[Old guy]

1 hour ago, 615Billiken said:

If I am Ford, I am 'trasnfering' at the end of the season.

That is easy to deal with, you are not Ford.

[SLU_Lax]

47 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

You just read the statement from Pestello that said that the external company hired to conduct the investigation has not completed it.  This means that it is out of Pestello's hands and certainly way far out of the Athletic Department's hands.  You translated that into SLU is dragging out the investigation to punish students who don't deserve punishment.  You prefaced your comment by saying "If" this is what they are doing and then labeled SLU shady based upon what you admit is your own guessing about the situation.

I'm not trying to pick on you, but this is the craziness that we're hearing on this board right now.  The company conducting the investigation hasn't finished it.  The rules allow them beyond 60 days.  SLU is being told the report is coming this week.  Common man.

I know people disagree with me, but this is not out of Pestello's and the ADs hands.  They can set some expectations that the investigation works to be resolved early (more people work the case, etc).  SLU indicating it was a priority to resolve this case (as the circumstances allow) in a reasonable manner is NOT interfering and is not "out of their hands".  I have not seen anyone indicate in anyway that there were circumstances that made it impossible to conduct the investigation and complete the initial report IN LESS THAN 10 WEEKS TIME.

I feel terribly for these kids if they are getting as little information as we are and I do hope they (both the men and the women) are being spoken to directly and honestly about what is happening.

[Tilkowsky]

1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

they could play immediately for a D2, Naia or D3 school.   plenty of successful players at those levels went on to after college basketball careers.   they obviously arent going to get a fair shake here, so move along asap.   as brian states, at least transfer at the break which is in less than 2 weeks.   

Certainly within their right.

How are they not getting a fair shake?

[STL Hoops Insider]

I see Lavar Ball pulled his son out of school, so it’s entirelu possible they never play a game here. Hopefully it works out and they can stay. UCLA might be a good litmus test to see how programs handle multi player suspensions. I understand the alleged crimes are different.