CJ Noland Decommits

[dlarry]

19 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Information I'm sure you don't care about because it doesn't support your narrative.

This past year, there were 42 football bowl games.

In 2010 there were 35 bowl games

In 2000 there were 25 bowl games

In 1990 there were 19 bowl games. 

For Colorado getting to 18 bowl games between 1986-2008 was quite an accomplishment.

It was just a joke. 
 
I actually do find that interesting. It’s crazy to see how watered down bowl games have become in 30+ years.

 

It will also be interesting to see how the Deion Sanders era works. watching the off-season house cleaning has been wild.

[DOC]

4 hours ago, cheeseman said:

Please share this post because all the posts directly prior to the one I mentioned were about making the NIT or teams in the 300s.  Once again  you turn the heat up by making it personal.  If you want to say a person's comment is not correct  then fine but to call it a lie is just way off base.

My bad. Your constant, negative and inaccurate statements are tiresome. How was that?

[Soderball]

17 hours ago, AnkielBreakers said:

Has anyone considered that the last few years have probably been the hardest years to make the tournament in SLU’s history?

1. The A10 is a talented conference, but can only put in 1-2 teams. It would be easier to win a small conference than to win the league or finish second with Dayton, VCU, Davidson, et al. Just consider that the entire conference had NET ratings at or above 100 at the start of conference play. Watching the games, the conference was not that far down from other years.

2. The Mountain West has risen up and stolen bids, amongst others, WCC and CUSA. No one has explained why those conferences have gotten so good. Maybe the landscape has shifted for the long-term.

Let's look at who those wins were against.

 

The truth is that like bowl games in college football, winning in college basketball doesn't mean much anymore. Who you beat, how good your conference is, and ability to win in neutral courts in high stakes games are what counts.

20 wins is the new "participation trophy" for teams that spend money. Division 1 is full of bottom feeders that wouldn't have sniffed it before.

 

Making the tournament matters, even making the NIT matters; scoring 20 wins against Mississippi Valley State is sad. We should have the Billikens play middle school teams. 50 wins every year. Woo hoo.

 

Winning a maiden claimer is not the same as winning a stakes race.

 

They're both wins. They're not the same.

[cheeseman]

11 hours ago, DOC said:

My bad. Your constant, negative and inaccurate statements are tiresome. How was that?

Oh so you made an inaccurate statement - bad form.  I do not believe I have ever made intentional inaccurate statements so if you have examples please share.

[Brighton]

On 6/4/2023 at 11:50 AM, SLUMedBilliken15 said:

Good point. To be fair, SLU descent from the 2012-2014 glory days has correllated with the A-10's descent from 6 bids to 1 bid. We are a part of the problem...

Just win and let the rest of the programs fend for themselves.

[Brighton]

23 hours ago, DOC said:

You actually think people on this site have any influence at all on Fords status? It’s none. Zippo. And you can’t say recruits aren’t effected by the Ford hate on here and then say we can effect change. You guys have made it clear, your going to run your mouths about this every 15 minutes until the only people on here are the haters. 

This isn't 2003, nor 2013. Recruits aren't only coming here to know the ins and outs of SLU basketball.

[JMM28]

 

Forte strikes again

Fo

[cgeldmacher]

21 hours ago, TheChosenOne said:

I feel terrible for Perkins. The coaches selling him on returning to college and taking advantage of the free COVID year has ruined his professional opportunities and earnings potential. Really sad to see, but hard for me to let the coaches use him not returning to 100% as an excuse. With a straight face they sold him on the idea that taking advantage of his COVID year and playing a 5th season of college basketball at the age of 23 would somehow improve his draft stock. Now he is soon to be 25 still recovering from a knee injury. I really hope he gets fully healthy and is able to salvage a successful professional playing career overseas. Apparently Team Blue does not include the coaches giving honest advice that is in the best interest of their players, unfortunate their selfishness has had such a negative impact on the kid’s future. And then Yuri’s junior season we saw Ford regularly blame him for losses just completely throwing him under the bus. I didn’t get the sense he did that as much this season, but certainly not commentary you expect from a guy sold as a players coach.

But please, blame the message board for recruits not wanting to play for these coaches. Do right by the players and produce on the court and you won’t have to worry about this message board.

Hot takes on a Sunday.

The idea that he should come back one more year to (try to) improve draft stock was not incorrect.  Do you think it was?  Do you think he was going to be drafted into the NBA if he did not come back?  The concept was correct.  He just didn't excute.  If he didn't execute because of his injury, that's just what it was, but don't blame the coaches for somehow ruining his pro career.

[stmdragons]

Thanks for absolutely nothing, Forte. Those Texas connections really paid dividends. 

[Compton]

Seems like the least concerning result possible. The reasons for the move are very clear and understandable to anyone. Kind of like the Brock Vice departure.

[TheChosenOne]

23 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

The idea that he should come back one more year to (try to) improve draft stock was not incorrect.  Do you think it was?  Do you think he was going to be drafted into the NBA if he did not come back?  The concept was correct.  He just didn't excute.  If he didn't execute because of his injury, that's just what it was, but don't blame the coaches for somehow ruining his pro career.

My position would be that after 4 seasons of college basketball and nearing the age of 23, his draft stock was essentially what it was going to be. I am not aware of any prospect suddenly becoming a draftable player in their 5th season of college basketball. His draft stock was unlikely to improve. I could maybe understand the argument if he had been injured during his first two seasons at SLU, but that wasn't the case. His pros and cons as a prospect were known and could be seen. I think Perkins had limitations that prevented him from being a guy who would be drafted (same with Goodwin, French, and Yuri), but he should have followed the same path as Goodwin and begun his professional career trying to work his way into the league. The risk/reward was never there for him to return to college for a 5th season and that was the message that should have been delivered to him. Now, his future earnings have been tanked, really sad. I think if the coaches gave him advice that did not encourage him to at least be evaluated and hear from the NBA, they did not give him the advice he should have been given. As I recall he announced he would be returning prior to the end of the season, so he did not even go through the process. I don't think the coaches get a pass because a guy in his 6th year of college didn't return to his previous form.

I will concede that my thoughts today are different than 2+ years ago with NIL allowing guys to be paid. I now can understand the argument for a guy returning for a 5th season of college basketball if that gets him paid more than if he were to play in the G League, but again that is not because it is going to help his draft stock.

[cgeldmacher]

3 hours ago, TheChosenOne said:

My position would be that after 4 seasons of college basketball and nearing the age of 23, his draft stock was essentially what it was going to be. I am not aware of any prospect suddenly becoming a draftable player in their 5th season of college basketball. His draft stock was unlikely to improve. I could maybe understand the argument if he had been injured during his first two seasons at SLU, but that wasn't the case. His pros and cons as a prospect were known and could be seen. I think Perkins had limitations that prevented him from being a guy who would be drafted (same with Goodwin, French, and Yuri), but he should have followed the same path as Goodwin and begun his professional career trying to work his way into the league. The risk/reward was never there for him to return to college for a 5th season and that was the message that should have been delivered to him. Now, his future earnings have been tanked, really sad. I think if the coaches gave him advice that did not encourage him to at least be evaluated and hear from the NBA, they did not give him the advice he should have been given. As I recall he announced he would be returning prior to the end of the season, so he did not even go through the process. I don't think the coaches get a pass because a guy in his 6th year of college didn't return to his previous form.

I will concede that my thoughts today are different than 2+ years ago with NIL allowing guys to be paid. I now can understand the argument for a guy returning for a 5th season of college basketball if that gets him paid more than if he were to play in the G League, but again that is not because it is going to help his draft stock.

I guarantee, you were happy when he announced he was returning.  To now throw the coaches under the bus for somehow ruining his pro career is very disingenuous.  He had no shot at a pro career after his injury.  Returning gave him a shot.  That didn't pan out.  So, he's back in the same place he was before deciding to come back.  The coaches convincing him to return for a 5th season did not change anything.

[TheChosenOne]

42 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

I guarantee, you were happy when he announced he was returning.  To now throw the coaches under the bus for somehow ruining his pro career is very disingenuous.  He had no shot at a pro career after his injury.  Returning gave him a shot.  That didn't pan out.  So, he's back in the same place he was before deciding to come back.  The coaches convincing him to return for a 5th season did not change anything.

I am talking about the initial decision to return for his 5th year of college, not the decision to return for his 6th year of college. At that point he had to return for a 6th year of college, I don’t think he would have had any other options at that point unfortunately. I know when he initially said he was returning towards the end of his senior season I didn’t think it made any sense for him to do so, but certainly it was a big boost to the team for the 2021-22 season. The risk/reward (prior to NIL where guys can potentially earn a comparable amount of money) was seldom there for a player not to go pro when that option was available to them especially at the age of ~23 and after 4 years of college.

[GOSLU68]

8 hours ago, cgeldmacher said:

The idea that he should come back one more year to (try to) improve draft stock was not incorrect.  Do you think it was?  Do you think he was going to be drafted into the NBA if he did not come back?  The concept was correct.  He just didn't excute.  If he didn't execute because of his injury, that's just what it was, but don't blame the coaches for somehow ruining his pro career.

Perkins had a career ending injury and Travis Ford stuck by his Team- giving Jimmerson, Perkins and Yuri every minute they could walk on the court- they just did not perform to the level needed. Thus is a coach who sticks with his players.

[cgeldmacher]

15 hours ago, GOSLU68 said:

Perkins had a career ending injury and Travis Ford stuck by his Team- giving Jimmerson, Perkins and Yuri every minute they could walk on the court- they just did not perform to the level needed. Thus is a coach who sticks with his players.

I have had that same thought and wonder what it means overall for our program.  Ford is very close with his players (invites them to his house, pushes the concept of Team Blue).  This, I believe, has resulted in very few defections to the portal from our core players (Jimerson returning this year, Yuri returning last year, Perkins coming back, etc.).  However, the other side of the coin of being uber close with your players is that he is also extra loyal to guys who stick with the program.  Loyalty is, in general, a good attribute, but sometimes fans wish he wasn't so loyal.  It is definitely a trade off.

[almaman]

his loyalty to his guys surely one of his best traits. There's no way he could not give Perkins as much time as he could handle but was clear to all from OCC he was not what he was.

[Aquinas]

22 hours ago, almaman said:

his loyalty to his guys surely one of his best traits. There's no way he could not give Perkins as much time as he could handle but was clear to all from OCC he was not what he was.

I think its easy in hindsight to see Perkins was over-played. However, comebacks from an injury and year off, sometimes are slow, but then a player turns the corner and returns to form. Ford knew we needed Perkins to return to form to be a good team. And he wanted to see him return to form for his sake. It made it hard to give up on him.

[Coach314]

If you convince a player to not leave the program and they come back and get injured in a preseason game,  you better be loyal to that player when he returns from injury lol.  

[VeniceMenace]

10 hours ago, Coach314 said:

If you convince a player to not leave the program and they come back and get injured in a preseason game,  you better be loyal to that player when he returns from injury lol.  

If I recall correctly Coach 314, you broke the news Perk was coming to SLU…we’ll before SLU officially announced it. If that’s accurate, thank you!

[Coach314]

On 6/8/2023 at 12:54 PM, VeniceMenace said:

If I recall correctly Coach 314, you broke the news Perk was coming to SLU…we’ll before SLU officially announced it. If that’s accurate, thank you!

No thanks needed.  I just happened to be at the right place at the right time to hear that info lol.  

[thatskablamo]

On 6/8/2023 at 3:42 AM, Coach314 said:

If you convince a player to not leave the program and they come back and get injured in a preseason game,  you better be loyal to that player when he returns from injury lol.  

Amen to that. How Ford has continuously received a pass for the minutes Perkins played against perennial Great Lakes Valley Conference stalwart Rockhurst is mind boggling. Did anyone from the post dispatch question his logic post-game? 
Did anyone in STL learn from Trent Green 1999? 
 

[stmdragons]

9 hours ago, thatskablamo said:

Amen to that. How Ford has continuously received a pass for the minutes Perkins played against perennial Great Lakes Valley Conference stalwart Rockhurst is mind boggling. Did anyone from the post dispatch question his logic post-game? 
Did anyone in STL learn from Trent Green 1999? 
 

There’s plenty of things to rightly criticize Ford for, but Perkins injury was not remotely his fault. It occurred early in the first half of the team’s first exhibition game. 

[thatskablamo]

2 hours ago, stmdragons said:

There’s plenty of things to rightly criticize Ford for, but Perkins injury was not remotely his fault. It occurred early in the first half of the team’s first exhibition game. 

A game Javonte Perkins didn’t need to be playing in with 4:44 left in the first half. I’m sorry, but that is indefensible. If he’s not in shape that’s on Ford as well. He doesn’t need an exhibition game to get his legs under him. If Perkins goes down at the jump ball in a game against Dayton, ok, that’s different. You can’t lose a guy like him in an exhibition game. That’s why you’ve got a 12 man roster. 

[VeniceMenace]

8 minutes ago, thatskablamo said:

A game Javonte Perkins didn’t need to be playing in with 4:44 left in the first half. I’m sorry, but that is indefensible. If he’s not in shape that’s on Ford as well. He doesn’t need an exhibition game to get his legs under him. If Perkins goes down at the jump ball in a game against Dayton, ok, that’s different. You can’t lose a guy like him in an exhibition game. That’s why you’ve got a 12 man roster. 

It could just as easily happen in practice or an early regular season game…or just wile goofing off….plastic bubble?

[WVBilliken]

35 minutes ago, thatskablamo said:

A game Javonte Perkins didn’t need to be playing in with 4:44 left in the first half. I’m sorry, but that is indefensible. If he’s not in shape that’s on Ford as well. He doesn’t need an exhibition game to get his legs under him. If Perkins goes down at the jump ball in a game against Dayton, ok, that’s different. You can’t lose a guy like him in an exhibition game. That’s why you’ve got a 12 man roster. 

That's really dumb.  You have to get players ready for "real" games.