2023 Offseason - Coaching Discussion Thread

[ACE]

This debate has spilled into so many other threads. Can we have a reasonable debate in this thread? 

Hopefully we can have some good debate, it's an interesting topic, without it devolving into the overly simplistic Ford lovers v. Ford haters nonsense.

[wgstl]

3 minutes ago, ACE said:

This debate has spilled into so many other threads. Can we have a reasonable debate in this thread? 

Hopefully we can have some good debate, it's an interesting topic, without it devolving into the overly simplistic Ford lovers v. Ford haters nonsense.

Pros -

great ambassador

above average recruiter 

cons-

coaching

 

[billikenfan05]

cons - unbalanced power dynamic between Athletics Administrators and Travis. 

pro and con - as long as we have Ford, we may not always meet or ever exceed expectations but we'll never be irrelevant. On some level, if May would take back a little power, it gives us the opportunity to be a little more patient on our decision if/when to cut bait.

[BigMouthBilliken]

4 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

cons - unbalanced power dynamic between Athletics Administrators and Travis. 

pro and con - as long as we have Ford, we may not always meet or ever exceed expectations but we'll never be irrelevant. On some level, if May would take back a little power, it gives us the opportunity to be a little more patient on our decision if/when to cut bait.

Pretty sure if you’re a casual fan, routinely missing the conference tournament and NCAA tournament is the epitome of irrelevant 

[billikenfan05]

Just now, BigMouthBilliken said:

Pretty sure if you’re a casual fan, routinely missing the conference tournament and NCAA tournament is the epitome of irrelevant 

A. Nobody misses the A10 Tournament. 

B. We've been routinely missing the NCAA Tournament for 75 years. We're still pretty relevant, but it's easier with more national sports networks. 

[slu92]

7 years at SLU

1 NCAA.

Zero at large NCAA bids.

Making close to $2.5 million a year.

In his entire 20 plus year coaching career he’s only won 1 NCAA Tournament game.

Here’s a litmus test, which I don’t understand why more people don’t discuss more often…..for the amount of money he is making, the underperforming last 7 years, the AD big talk and over promising, what other program that is better than SLU is right now would want Travis Ford as their coach and try hard to “steal” him away? Please name one school or even a pro team? The answer is nobody. Zero. Why does Chris May act offended anyone would question keeping Ford like he is Coach K or Tom Izzo? I was at a season ticket holder lunch when Crews was the coach and Chris May told entire table that Jim Crews and Calbert Chaney were taking SLU to the next level, don’t worry about recruiting, a lot of winning….nope. Says similar stuff last 7 years about Ford. So, Chris May is either delusional, incompetent or a bad used car salesman. He looked everyone in the eye and praised Jim Crews as second coming of Majerus, rinse and repeat with same canned AD speak lines for Ford. To say this season was a success, getting beat by SIUE at home, no NCAA or NIT bids and after being a pre season top 25 team and considered the greatest Billikens team ever assembled???? Good luck selling season tickets next year hyping up year 8 with Ford and a totally rebuilt team. A lot of uncertainty to go along with poor track record last 7 seasons. Nothing personal against Chris May or Travis Ford could be the two greatest people ever but they just aren’t getting the job done. 7 years in this day and age is an eternity in sports. 
 

SLU can do much better. 

 

 

[WVBilliken]

 So, if coaching is the number issue, why not hire an experienced assistant coach who is a proven "X's and O's" guy to provide a sounding board for Ford?  There has to be those kind of guys out there.  He has an assistant head coach and two assistant coaches.  He has a Director of player development, a Director of basketball operations, and a video and analytics coordinator. He has two graduate assistants.  That is a lot of folks for 13 scholarship team. 

Regarding the coaches; have two focus on recruiting (plus Ford as recruiter and closer) and have one be focused mostly on the true assistant coaching activities, game strategy, player development ..... the "X's and O's" of the game.

I am retired now but managed large, diverse organizations in the private and then the public sectors.  I was a financial guy but had no problem managing IT, Process Control, HR, Purchasing, Laboratory for product testing, Logistics, etc.  How did I do that?  Well surrounded myself with damn good department managers.  So why the heck can't that work in college basketball?  I think it does elsewhere.

I have seen many successful programs that had coaches that clearly lacked in situational coaching, PR, recruiting, whatever.  How did they stay successful? ..... well they knew how to strengthen their weaknesses with a strong support staff.

 

 

 

 

[DOC]

15 minutes ago, WVBilliken said:

 So, if coaching is the number issue, why not hire an experienced assistant coach who is a proven "X's and O's" guy to provide a sounding board for Ford?  There has to be those kind of guys out there.  He has an assistant head coach and two assistant coaches.  He has a Director of player development, a Director of basketball operations, and a video and analytics coordinator. He has two graduate assistants.  That is a lot of folks for 13 scholarship team. 

Regarding the coaches; have two focus on recruiting (plus Ford as recruiter and closer) and have one be focused mostly on the true assistant coaching activities, game strategy, player development ..... the "X's and O's" of the game.

I am retired now but managed large, diverse organizations in the private and then the public sectors.  I was a financial guy but had no problem managing IT, Process Control, HR, Purchasing, Laboratory for product testing, Logistics, etc.  How did I do that?  Well surrounded myself with damn good department managers.  So why the heck can't that work in college basketball?  I think it does elsewhere.

I have seen many successful programs that had coaches that clearly lacked in situational coaching, PR, recruiting, whatever.  How did they stay successful? ..... well they knew how to strengthen their weaknesses with a strong support staff.

 

 

 

 

This is the change we need to see for next year. Ford is safe, but his seat should be red hot and changes need to be made. We need a Martelli on our bench.

[BigMouthBilliken]

2 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

A. Nobody misses the A10 Tournament. 

B. We've been routinely missing the NCAA Tournament for 75 years. We're still pretty relevant, but it's easier with more national sports networks. 

Well there you go. Being in the A10 in of itself adds to the irrelevancy 

[DOC]

37 minutes ago, BigMouthBilliken said:

Well there you go. Being in the A10 in of itself adds to the irrelevancy 

What you should have said was "well there you go. I have no idea what I'm talking about, but fire ford."

[WVBilliken]

11 minutes ago, DOC said:

What you should have said was "well there you go. I have no idea what I'm talking about, but fire ford."

LOL.  You guys are wasting your keystrokes.  Ford is staying no matter how many times you fools post, fire Ford.  YOU HAVE ZERO SAY IN THE DECISION, that is a fact ...... no matter how much you and your fellow Ford haters say it on this board, Ford is Coach for at least another season,  probably more.  Maybe you just need a new team to follow. 

 

[BigMouthBilliken]

3 hours ago, billikenfan05 said:

A. Nobody misses the A10 Tournament. 

B. We've been routinely missing the NCAA Tournament for 75 years. We're still pretty relevant, but it's easier with more national sports networks. 

Meant A10 tournament championship, but the point still stands

[billikenfan05]

8 minutes ago, BigMouthBilliken said:

Meant A10 tournament championship, but the point still stands

Look man, we're both here looking for the same thing out of Billiken Basketball. I've spent the last 4 months thinking about this way more than I care to admit. I feel like I've gone to every place on the Travis Ford as Billiken Head Coach spectrum, as far right and as far left as you can go.  I'm just trying to offer perspectives.

[BIG BILL FAN]

I don’t think most have any clue what SLU and other mid majors are up against. Here are facts not opinions. There are 358 division 1 teams and 68 tournament bids. There are 32 automatic bids which means that leaves 336 teams vying for 36 at large bids. This year 33 of those bids went to P6 schools which left 3 spots for the remaining 269 non P6 schools which equates to a 1 in 90 chance. The system is a joke and is only getting tougher. To compound the difficulty SLU is in a conference that is trending down in the numbers of bids, yet still has 4-6 teams which are regularly competing for the top spot. You can ***** all you want about the coach, but the reality is whoever is the coach will be facing a major uphill battle. 

[willie]

1 hour ago, WVBilliken said:

 So, if coaching is the number issue, why not hire an experienced assistant coach who is a proven "X's and O's" guy to provide a sounding board for Ford?  There has to be those kind of guys out there.  He has an assistant head coach and two assistant coaches.  He has a Director of player development, a Director of basketball operations, and a video and analytics coordinator. He has two graduate assistants.  That is a lot of folks for 13 scholarship team. 

Regarding the coaches; have two focus on recruiting (plus Ford as recruiter and closer) and have one be focused mostly on the true assistant coaching activities, game strategy, player development ..... the "X's and O's" of the game.

I am retired now but managed large, diverse organizations in the private and then the public sectors.  I was a financial guy but had no problem managing IT, Process Control, HR, Purchasing, Laboratory for product testing, Logistics, etc.  How did I do that?  Well surrounded myself with damn good department managers.  So why the heck can't that work in college basketball?  I think it does elsewhere.

I have seen many successful programs that had coaches that clearly lacked in situational coaching, PR, recruiting, whatever.  How did they stay successful? ..... well they knew how to strengthen their weaknesses with a strong support staff.

 

 

 

 

This all sounds great but from watching the bench during games and going to a few practices Ford is definitely the alpha dog. I don’t see him delegating much. I would love to know what is said when 6 coaches huddle up before talking to the team during timeouts . I don’t think I have ever seen an assistant draw up a play or appear to talk directly to all five in the game. I do think a Marteli type on the bench would be a positive. 

[BIG BILL FAN]

15 minutes ago, willie said:

This all sounds great but from watching the bench during games and going to a few practices Ford is definitely the alpha dog. I don’t see him delegating much. I would love to know what is said when 6 coaches huddle up before talking to the team during timeouts . I don’t think I have ever seen an assistant draw up a play or appear to talk directly to all five in the game. I do think a Marteli type on the bench would be a positive. 

Let me tell you what Ford does very well, yet rarely gets credit for, he knows  how to coach rebounding. His team is consistently in the top 50. Think about it, look at the team he had on the floor this year, not one outside of Okoro would you say is a good rebounder yet he got the production. Another thing he excels at is plays under the opponent’s basket. We have to be one of the best in that category. Who remembers the Crews days when our number 1 option was to throw the ball to the backcourt.

[Schasz]

15 minutes ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

I don’t think most have any clue what SLU and other mid majors are up against. Here are facts not opinions. There are 358 division 1 teams and 68 tournament bids. There are 32 automatic bids which means that leaves 336 teams vying for 36 at large bids. This year 33 of those bids went to P6 schools which left 3 spots for the remaining 269 non P6 schools which equates to a 1 in 90 chance. The system is a joke and is only getting tougher. To compound the difficulty SLU is in a conference that is trending down in the numbers of bids, yet still has 4-6 teams which are regularly competing for the top spot. You can ***** all you want about the coach, but the reality is whoever is the coach will be facing a major uphill battle. 

Big Bill Fan...I appreciate everything you mention. It is not easy to make the NCAA. Then their is the one Jesuit U that all SLU fans should look at...Gonzaga. Not hard to look at Mark Few's magnificent 24 year record as HC with an ,837 overall winning record. Hells Bells he has NEVER not been in the NCAA Tourney. He's lost in two NCAA Finals. His teams always seem to reload each and every year. Yes, they play in the WCC but that league rarely gets just one team in the NCAA Tourney, and he plays a few top P-5 team every year...WCC is more competitive than the A-10 from that aspect year in and year out. When anyone asks me what I wish SLU could be or attain in one word Gonzaga. That is the Jesuit to root for this and pretty much every year. That is what I keep dreaming SLU would become!!!

[billiken_roy]

12 hours ago, WVBilliken said:

 So, if coaching is the number issue, why not hire an experienced assistant coach who is a proven "X's and O's" guy to provide a sounding board for Ford?  There has to be those kind of guys out there.  He has an assistant head coach and two assistant coaches.  He has a Director of player development, a Director of basketball operations, and a video and analytics coordinator. He has two graduate assistants.  That is a lot of folks for 13 scholarship team. 

Regarding the coaches; have two focus on recruiting (plus Ford as recruiter and closer) and have one be focused mostly on the true assistant coaching activities, game strategy, player development ..... the "X's and O's" of the game.

I am retired now but managed large, diverse organizations in the private and then the public sectors.  I was a financial guy but had no problem managing IT, Process Control, HR, Purchasing, Laboratory for product testing, Logistics, etc.  How did I do that?  Well surrounded myself with damn good department managers.  So why the heck can't that work in college basketball?  I think it does elsewhere.

I have seen many successful programs that had coaches that clearly lacked in situational coaching, PR, recruiting, whatever.  How did they stay successful? ..... well they knew how to strengthen their weaknesses with a strong support staff.

 

 

 

 

The Billiken's hired giocolleti a few years back supposedly for that reason.   Ford apparently ignored any input because there was no noticeable change.

[cheeseman]

15 hours ago, ACE said:

This debate has spilled into so many other threads. Can we have a reasonable debate in this thread? 

Hopefully we can have some good debate, it's an interesting topic, without it devolving into the overly simplistic Ford lovers v. Ford haters nonsense.

Sorry Ace read the responses you got - it started out OK but then it devolved with the Ford lovers going off the rail but they will blame the other side of being off track.  Bottom line I don't think the supposed Ford haters really hate Ford they just simply want better performance for our money but when the other group insists on making it personal the whole idea of a reasonable discussion is gone.  

[cheeseman]

28 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

The Billiken's hired giocolleti a few years back supposedly for that reason.   Ford apparently ignored any input because there was no noticeable change.

Now that you mention this it is probably why he left after one year.  

[stmdragons]

5 minutes ago, cheeseman said:

Now that you mention this it is probably why he left after one year.  

Giacoletti was here for three seasons. 

[Lord Elrond]

12 hours ago, BIG BILL FAN said:

I don’t think most have any clue what SLU and other mid majors are up against. Here are facts not opinions. There are 358 division 1 teams and 68 tournament bids. There are 32 automatic bids which means that leaves 336 teams vying for 36 at large bids. This year 33 of those bids went to P6 schools which left 3 spots for the remaining 269 non P6 schools which equates to a 1 in 90 chance. The system is a joke and is only getting tougher. To compound the difficulty SLU is in a conference that is trending down in the numbers of bids, yet still has 4-6 teams which are regularly competing for the top spot. You can ***** all you want about the coach, but the reality is whoever is the coach will be facing a major uphill battle. 

There’s a lot to this. I don’t think most people realize just how much this has impacted the A10 and SLU.  The real question is, is the A10 conference now a 1 bid league going forward? Now that we have had a full year of NIL and an open transfer portal where players didn’t have to sit.  The results of that on the A10 as a conference were not good, but that doesn’t affect the long term trend of fewer bids for the A10.  Number of A10 NCAA bids by year since 2006.

2006 - 2

2007 - 2

2008 - 3

2009 - 3

2010 - 3

2011 - 3

2012 - 4

2013 - 5

2014 - 6

2015 - 3

2016 - 3

2017 - 3

2018 - 3

2019 - 2

2020 - COVID Year sucked

2021 - 2

2022 - 2

2023 - 1

Like a ballon slowly leaking helium, we as a league have been slowly sinking since 2014. No increase in number of bids, no up one year and down the next, just  slowly sinking until we hit bottom.  That is the trend I am concerned about.  The A10 and all the schools in it need a plan to turn this around. 

[courtside]

If your league isn’t great or if it is in decline, your program has to be that much better compared to your league. One way to measure success is your league record and league finish annually compared to the strength of your league. Is your school winning the league most years? Top 3 finishes most years, etc…and then there are other measurable things too.

 

[cheeseman]

3 hours ago, stmdragons said:

Giacoletti was here for three seasons. 

Thanks for correcting me.

[billikenfan05]

4 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

The Billiken's hired giocolleti a few years back supposedly for that reason.   Ford apparently ignored any input because there was no noticeable change.

I thought they hired him because they had a departure last minute?