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4 game observations and surprises


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17 minutes ago, slufanskip said:

Easily. In my 30+ years and I'll count Bonner in that as I caught the very end of his career

Unless I'm forgetting someone it's

1. Bonner

2. French

3. Vouyoukas

3. Dobbs 

5.  Robinson

5. Heinrich

Just off quick memory. I've probably forgotten someone though

 

I would definitely put Jamal Johnson above Heinrich and Robinson.  I would have Kenny Brown definitely above Heinrich and possibly Robinson.

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12 minutes ago, brianstl said:

I would definitely put Jamal Johnson above Heinrich and Robinson.  I would have Kenny Brown definitely above Heinrich and possibly Robinson.

Loe and Conklin should be mentioned if we are getting into the Kenny Browns of the world

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3 minutes ago, Littlebill said:

Loe and Conklin should be mentioned if we are getting into the Kenny Browns of the world

both loe and conklin were imo only senior season very good bigs.   their other 3 seasons were disappointments imo.   

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15 minutes ago, Littlebill said:

Loe and Conklin should be mentioned if we are getting into the Kenny Browns of the world

Conklin should actually be no worst be 3rd on the list. Roy is right with we have one great season, but boy it was a really outstanding season.  That was a terrible brain fart on my part.  

I am a big Rob Loe fan but I don't think he fits the bill as a traditional big.

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On 11/21/2021 at 5:44 PM, Billikenbooster said:

It was a serious question 

Franco is someone’s attempt to. Be cute with Francis Okoro.

Martin is Linsen’s first name

mhg

They literally call him Frank and Franco. I’ve heard it during games and at practices 

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45 minutes ago, brianstl said:

I am going to have to block you.  

block box?   heck it was all rachel that was getting all😄 riled up.   

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40 minutes ago, Bills By 40 said:

And Demarius Jacobs started over Javonte...

speaking of jacobs i was watching a little of the ball state game the other day and he was not impressive at all.   doesnt seem the move was all that beneficial to him.   sorry to see it a i liked the young man a lot.

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2 hours ago, slufanskip said:

Easily. In my 30+ years and I'll count Bonner in that as I caught the very end of his career

Unless I'm forgetting someone it's

1. Bonner

2. French

3. Vouyoukas

3. Dobbs 

5.  Robinson

5. Heinrich

Just off quick memory. I've probably forgotten someone though

 

Interesting list.  If you include Mel Robinson on this list (first I thought you had David Robinson on it), then I would suggest Willie Reed also belongs.  Mel played in 73 Billiken games, Willie in 67.  Mel scored 705 points (9.7 ppg) and Willie scored 682 (10.2 ppg).  Willie had significantly more rebounds then Mel, 424 to 353, and Mel had the edge in blocks 127 to 113.  Not a whole lot to separate their numbers. 

And I agree with @billiken_roy, the only thing 'big' about Dobbs was his rear.  Great player, great attitude, fun to watch, he played 'big' but I'd not put him in the big category.

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15 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Interesting list.  If you include Mel Robinson on this list (first I thought you had David Robinson on it), then I would suggest Willie Reed also belongs.  Mel played in 73 Billiken games, Willie in 67.  Mel scored 705 points (9.7 ppg) and Willie scored 682 (10.2 ppg).  Willie had significantly more rebounds then Mel, 424 to 353, and Mel had the edge in blocks 127 to 113.  Not a whole lot to separate their numbers. 

And I agree with @billiken_roy, the only thing 'big' about Dobbs was his rear.  Great player, great attitude, fun to watch, he played 'big' but I'd not put him in the big category.

I thought that was  the  whole thing about Dobbs that he was  small  but played as a 5as he was thinly one who could?

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38 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Interesting list.  If you include Mel Robinson on this list (first I thought you had David Robinson on it), then I would suggest Willie Reed also belongs.  Mel played in 73 Billiken games, Willie in 67.  Mel scored 705 points (9.7 ppg) and Willie scored 682 (10.2 ppg).  Willie had significantly more rebounds then Mel, 424 to 353, and Mel had the edge in blocks 127 to 113.  Not a whole lot to separate their numbers. 

And I agree with @billiken_roy, the only thing 'big' about Dobbs was his rear.  Great player, great attitude, fun to watch, he played 'big' but I'd not put him in the big category.

I knew I'd forget people, just jotted down quickly from memory and I'm old, the memory isn't that great

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46 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Interesting list.  If you include Mel Robinson on this list (first I thought you had David Robinson on it), then I would suggest Willie Reed also belongs.  Mel played in 73 Billiken games, Willie in 67.  Mel scored 705 points (9.7 ppg) and Willie scored 682 (10.2 ppg).  Willie had significantly more rebounds then Mel, 424 to 353, and Mel had the edge in blocks 127 to 113.  Not a whole lot to separate their numbers. 

And I agree with @billiken_roy, the only thing 'big' about Dobbs was his rear.  Great player, great attitude, fun to watch, he played 'big' but I'd not put him in the big category.

Bonner played center? If we are going on Talent alone, as a center at SLU, Willie Reed has to be the best, right?

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1 hour ago, billiken_roy said:

speaking of jacobs i was watching a little of the ball state game the other day and he was not impressive at all.   doesnt seem the move was all that beneficial to him.   sorry to see it a i liked the young man a lot.

That is a shame, but further justifies the move IMO. If he isn't impressing on Ball State's roster imagine what he'd be doing on ours. Wish him luck. 

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12 minutes ago, Bills By 40 said:

That is a shame, but further justifies the move IMO. If he isn't impressing on Ball State's roster imagine what he'd be doing on ours. Wish him luck. 

I always seemed to be in the minority here on him.  Everyone seemed to talk about his potential, I always felt he had already reached it.

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24 minutes ago, Bills By 40 said:

That is a shame, but further justifies the move IMO. If he isn't impressing on Ball State's roster imagine what he'd be doing on ours. Wish him luck. 

His production has not been great, but he has been starting and playing 24 mpg so it's not like he's been buried on the bench. It's still so early in the season, one or two big games and the overall stat line can all of the sudden look much better.

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4 hours ago, slufanskip said:

Easily. In my 30+ years and I'll count Bonner in that as I caught the very end of his career

Unless I'm forgetting someone it's

1. Bonner

2. French

3. Vouyoukas

3. Dobbs 

5.  Robinson

5. Heinrich

Just off quick memory. I've probably forgotten someone though

 

The Rob Loe slander!

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10 minutes ago, ACE said:

His production has not been great, but he has been starting and playing 24 mpg so it's not like he's been buried on the bench. It's still so early in the season, one or two big games and the overall stat line can all of the sudden look much better.

Based on his time at SLU and his (very) early stats with Ball State, Jacobs just seems like the type of guy who isn't really a take charge scorer.  That's frustrating a bit because he's typically an efficient scorer when he does shoot.  He'll be looked at to score more often at Ball State & have more opportunity, but if that's not his game then it won't really change.

He does appear to be doing a lot more facilitating for Ball State based on the stats.  He has 3 or more assists in all 5 games so far with Ball State, but only did that 3 times at SLU in 3 years.  To go along with the assists, however, Jacobs is turning the ball over a lot more than he ever did at SLU.  With Yuri on the roster, he wasn't going to be doing that for SLU very often, so that could explain the transfer move.

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25 minutes ago, RUBillsFan said:

Based on his time at SLU and his (very) early stats with Ball State, Jacobs just seems like the type of guy who isn't really a take charge scorer.  That's frustrating a bit because he's typically an efficient scorer when he does shoot.  He'll be looked at to score more often at Ball State & have more opportunity, but if that's not his game then it won't really change.

He does appear to be doing a lot more facilitating for Ball State based on the stats.  He has 3 or more assists in all 5 games so far with Ball State, but only did that 3 times at SLU in 3 years.  To go along with the assists, however, Jacobs is turning the ball over a lot more than he ever did at SLU.  With Yuri on the roster, he wasn't going to be doing that for SLU very often, so that could explain the transfer move.

Guys like Jacobs and Mario McKinney came out of very unstructured, fast-breaking offenses in high school and there are very few college offenses that look like that.  So they are square pegs who are forced into round holes at this level.  If you are a bigger wing player like Hargrove, you can still impose your physicality and get buckets.  At 6'2 180, not so much.  You have to employ more guile and slick ball-handling at that size and they don't quite have it.

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Best centers in my fandom (early 80s)

1. Bonner (rarely started at the 5 but usually finished games there)

2. Ian

3. French

4. Rob Loe

5. Willie Reed

6. Chris Heinrich

7. Jamal Johnson

8. Kenny Brown

9. Matt Baniak

10. Ryan Leuchtefeld

Honorable Mention - Evan Pederson, Reggie Agbeko, Melvin Robinson, Cory Remuken

Dishonorable Mention - Brett Jolly, Eric Bickel, Brett Thompson, Sekue, Travis Tadysak, Mike Ivester, Chip Entwhistle, Junie Jeffries, Austin Gillmann, Adam Knollymeyer, Matt Neufeld, John Manning,  John Seyfert

 

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