Jump to content
Billikens.com Message Board
Sign in to follow this  
Cowboy

Jordan Goodwin

Recommended Posts

2 minutes ago, Cowboy said:

-offering as perspective on how special.....

JGood has 1,156 career points, 12.4ppg avg, if we play 30 games and he averages 16ppg he will be 7th all-time leading scorer

already top 10 in rebounds, career to date avg is 8.5rpg, if he averages 8.0rpg (and it will be more) over 30 games he will be 4th or 5th in total rebounds depending on HAS

career avg to date is 3.5apg, if we play 30 games and averages 3.0apg (and it will be more) he will be tied for 7th in career assists

already second in career steals, career avg to date is 1.95spg, if we play 30 games and averages 1.5spg he will be all-time leader with 35 more than AB

career avg to date is 34.5mpg, if we play 30 and he is at 34.5mpg he will be 3rd in all-time minutes played

-no Billiken should ever wear 0 again

-if the season goes close to as I suspect and the ADept wants to unfurl a 5th banner on Senior Night I am good with that

-can we stop saying someone will 'replace' JGood? in 21-22 his minutes will be up for grabs but I find it almost impossible to believe there is a 'replacement' 

Good post!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

All of those stats while missing the last 10 or so games of his freshman season. He'll almost certainly play in multiple NCAA tournaments and he/French built the program back up

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't disagree that Goodwin is an all-time great (and French, too) and that whatever recruits we bring in for these guys will not be true 1:1 replacements.

Goodwin is a bit of a unicorn in the college game. He's the best rebounding guard in all of basketball by a pretty wide margin. He has a playing style that isn't common and most likely can't be found among available 2021 recruits of his caliber.

I certainly hope no one is implying that whoever we bring in is an actual replacement for Jordan Goodwin. There is none.

However, we do have the monumental challenge of literally replacing him on the roster in 2021. Let's say we land our top priority for that slot, Jordan Nesbitt. He's currently rated 59th in the Rivals rankings, around where Goodwin was at his peak. He's climbing rapidly in national ratings and considered to be undervalued by many scouts and writers and general observers. No one is saying Nesbitt is the same player as Goodwin, but he would be the closest thing to actually "replacing" him. He's taller, he's a better all-around scorer, and has a more natural feel as a lead guard from what I can tell (seems to see the floor better, not as turnover prone). He is not even close to the rebounder Goodwin is nor is he the natural leader Goodwin is at this point. But he's a similar-level recruit (or better) with the ability to step in and play major minutes immediately.

If we don't land a player of that caliber, there really is nothing close to a replacement. There would be a recruit or recruits who hopefully pay off longer term and fit with the roster. There's also the fact that underclassmen behind Goodwin can continue to increase their roles. Replacement by committee, basically.

I think anyone using the word replacement is being aspirational in recruiting outlook, not disrespectful to JG.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

So if we are talking Goodwin, French should be too:

He is already the all-time leader in blocks and there's a good chance he has twice as many as Ian, who is second.

Averaging 10reb, he is second all time in rebounds.

Points - he will probably be just outside the top 10.

Both of these guys will be all-time bills, but their legacy will be directly connected to what this team achieves this season. If this is an NIT team, these guys don't get celebrated like they should

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
29 minutes ago, Littlebill said:

If this is an NIT team, these guys don't get celebrated like they should

If this is an NIT team something horrible has to happen.  I'm not going to throw out scenarios but we're talking biblical stuff here......  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
40 minutes ago, Littlebill said:

So if we are talking Goodwin, French should be too:

He is already the all-time leader in blocks and there's a good chance he has twice as many as Ian, who is second.

Averaging 10reb, he is second all time in rebounds.

Points - he will probably be just outside the top 10.

Both of these guys will be all-time bills, but there legacy will be directly connected to what this team achieves this season. If this is an NIT team, these guys don't get celebrated like they should

Well, Bonner, Douglass, and Gray are considered Billiken greats without having played in the NCAA Tournament — in addition to Liddell and Lisch.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

Well, Bonner, Douglass, and Gray are considered Billiken greats without having played in the NCAA Tournament — in addition to Liddell and Lisch.

Bonner is celebrated. Douglass and Gray are greats but how often do people bring them up compared to Bonner.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Quality Is Job 1 said:

Well, Bonner, Douglass, and Gray are considered Billiken greats without having played in the NCAA Tournament — in addition to Liddell and Lisch.

Is we’re not an NCAA team this year, it’s an unmitigated failure. It would be a huge black mark on Ford’s resume and subsequently would get remembered alongside everything Goodwin and French have done. Frankly, NITs shouldn’t be something we celebrate around here anymore.

 

for what it’s worth, I’m talking a different level of Billiken than Lisch and Liddell. When we talk numbers in the rafters type stuff, those two don’t really enter that type of conversation.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
44 minutes ago, Littlebill said:

Is we’re not an NCAA team this year, it’s an unmitigated failure. It would be a huge black mark on Ford’s resume and subsequently would get remembered alongside everything Goodwin and French have done. Frankly, NITs shouldn’t be something we celebrate around here anymore.

 

for what it’s worth, I’m talking a different level of Billiken than Lisch and Liddell. When we talk numbers in the rafters type stuff, those two don’t really enter that type of conversation.

 

 

I wish I could like the bolded part of this quote more than once...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, JettFlight5 said:

I wish I could like the bolded part of this quote more than once...

NITs are what we should settle for every 5 years during a reloading period. And we shouldn’t be happy about it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The four numbers in the rafters are the four players who were named to All-America teams.

At this point, there are four major organizations that name three All-America teams each - AP, Sporting News, USBWA, and NABC - and the AP does an honorable mention team, as well.

Not all four of our retired jerseys were first-teamers. If Goodwin makes a third team, which is not at all out of the question, then a number in the rafters is quite possible.

Just to be clear, I don't know what the school's criteria are at this point. I don't know if they'd recognize all four of the main ones. I don't know if the two Senior All-America (Senior CLASS Award finalists) teams count, either, or if AP honorable mention is enough. I don't know if they'd make an exception for a four-year star who, say, led SLU to its first Sweet Sixteen.

Let's hope he has the kind of year where there's no ambiguity about it at the end of the season.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 hours ago, Pistol said:

The four numbers in the rafters are the four players who were named to All-America teams.

At this point, there are four major organizations that name three All-America teams each - AP, Sporting News, USBWA, and NABC - and the AP does an honorable mention team, as well.

Not all four of our retired jerseys were first-teamers. If Goodwin makes a third team, which is not at all out of the question, then a number in the rafters is quite possible.

Just to be clear, I don't know what the school's criteria are at this point. I don't know if they'd recognize all four of the main ones. I don't know if the two Senior All-America (Senior CLASS Award finalists) teams count, either, or if AP honorable mention is enough. I don't know if they'd make an exception for a four-year star who, say, led SLU to its first Sweet Sixteen.

Let's hope he has the kind of year where there's no ambiguity about it at the end of the season.

I guess AP honorable mention isn't enough, because a all-conference POY is automatically honorable mention (e.g., Jett in '14), but no raising, yet.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know how Bonner got his AA status. He wasn't named to one of the teams and wasn't mcc poy. Ray Steiner is a legit AA and isn't recognized as such.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, thetorch said:

I don't know how Bonner got his AA status. He wasn't named to one of the teams and wasn't mcc poy. Ray Steiner is a legit AA and isn't recognized as such.

Bonner led the nation in rebounding his senior year.  Maybe that merits the honor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Claggett is more worthy than any other Billiken past or present of having his number retired. 3x 1st team All Conf, Honorable Mention All-American. 2nd all-time leading scorer.

Jordair Jett is certainly more worthy than anyone on the current roster having won conf POY and Honorable Mention All-American.

I think we should also remember that Melvin Robinson wore 50 in 1989-90 and Cody Ellis wore 24 from 2010-2013 after the numbers were supposed to be "retired".

I don't know when Boushka's 24 was retired but Larry Simmons wore it in the late 90s. This might have been the period when only 50 was retired while we had 24 and 43 banners hanging next to it.

Bonner's 34 wasn't retired immediately as some have pointed out that Donnie Dobbs wore it from 92-94 and then Tyrone Caswell in the late 90s. I don't recall exactly when Bonner's 34 was retired.

Bottom line: It's an exclusive club that doesn't really have any clear criteria or consistent rules. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Duff Man said:

Claggett is more worthy than any other Billiken past or present of having his number retired. 3x 1st team All Conf, Honorable Mention All-American. 2nd all-time leading scorer.

Jordair Jett is certainly more worthy than anyone on the current roster having won conf POY and Honorable Mention All-American.

I think we should also remember that Melvin Robinson wore 50 in 1989-90 and Cody Ellis wore 24 from 2010-2013 after the numbers were supposed to be "retired".

I don't know when Boushka's 24 was retired but Larry Simmons wore it in the late 90s. This might have been the period when only 50 was retired while we had 24 and 43 banners hanging next to it.

Bonner's 34 wasn't retired immediately as some have pointed out that Donnie Dobbs wore it from 92-94 and then Tyrone Caswell in the late 90s. I don't recall exactly when Bonner's 34 was retired.

Bottom line: It's an exclusive club that doesn't really have any clear criteria or consistent rules. 

The bottom line is exactly right.

for what it’s worth, I think Goodwin has already had a better Bills career than Jett - who did most of his damage in his last season, and imo wasn’t the best player of his era. I think Claggett is the player with the most beef not being up there at this time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, Littlebill said:

The bottom line is exactly right.

for what it’s worth, I think Goodwin has already had a better Bills career than Jett - who did most of his damage in his last season, and imo wasn’t the best player of his era. I think Claggett is the player with the most beef not being up there at this time.

Who would you say is the best player of that era, out of curiosity? Evans?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
27 minutes ago, NH said:

Who would you say is the best player of that era, out of curiosity? Evans?

Him or Mitchell. Had better four year careers 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
33 minutes ago, Littlebill said:

The bottom line is exactly right.

for what it’s worth, I think Goodwin has already had a better Bills career than Jett - who did most of his damage in his last season, and imo wasn’t the best player of his era. I think Claggett is the player with the most beef not being up there at this time.

The idea that Jordair Jett was a one season supernova is revisionist history.

Jett made all 10 defensive team as a 7th man on the deepest roster in program history. He was the best defensive player on the best team we've seen. He was not asked to do much offensively but he was a key part of the NCAA run that had them closer to the Sweet 16 than at any other point in my lifetime before Draymond twisted the knife.

As a Junior, Jett was 3rd team all conference and once again all defensive A10 on a team that swept the A10 regular season and conf tournament titles. The only Billikens team to ever do that.

He took it to another level the following year with Kwamain gone, but Jett was a key part of 2 great teams and was honored with all conference recognition before that magic senior year.

Goodwin meanwhile has 1 first team all conference and 1 all defensive team and 1 NCAA tournament appearance....and people are ready to retire his number

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As much as I hate Duke, I like their policy that no number gets retired without a diploma.  I believe that kept Laettner's number from the rafters for years.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...