CBFan Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 3 minutes ago, brianstl said: 60% of the non-grad transfers Ford has brought in have left under bad circumstances without ever playing a game. We probably need to stick to high school recruits and grad transfers. Out of reaction, great post and point. OT of this post this is a big loss we lost a legitimate banger in the post that would have inflected his will upon opposing players and if Gordon got in foul trouble we had Santos to come in and keep the same post presence and that would have been a nightmare for other teams to deal with. I believe Santos would have been the unmovable object defending the post. SLU_Lax likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said: You're right. I was more concerned with the actual transgression than the statistics. 05 - to clarify - I’m not speaking about Santos’ underlying behavior. I can’t speak on it. I’m saying Ford’s strategy of transfers isn’t working and I’m disappointed that he now finds himself down an available scholarship player (again) due to *some sort* of off the court issue(s). It’s frustrating and reflects poorly on the program. Ford needs to clean up whatever he’s trying to accomplish. As it relates to the loss of talent - I’ve heard from enough people that know basketball to be confident that this is a big loss. The team is now heavily dependent on two injury prone bigs, French who has had foul trouble, and a freshman. SShoe likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 1 hour ago, billikenbill said: If you go back and listen to coach and Rammer on the KTRS interview from 8-21 you’ll hear how excited both he and Rammer were about Santos. Don’t kid yourselves, this is a big loss. Bad Billiken news two birthdays in a ro w for me. C’mon guys, straighten up and fly right, or at least wait until 9-26 to screw up. happy belated birthday! billikenbill likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 7 minutes ago, JohnnyJumpUp said: You have no clue what happened. I know a guy that was counted on to contribute will no longer be playing for SLU. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NextYearBill Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 5 minutes ago, RiseAndGrind said: and a freshman. Who was ranked #9 in the nation when he verballed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 8 minutes ago, RiseAndGrind said: 05 - to clarify - I’m not speaking about Santos’ underlying behavior. I can’t speak on it. I’m saying Ford’s strategy of transfers isn’t working and I’m disappointed that he now finds himself down an available scholarship player (again) due to *some sort* of off the court issue(s). It’s frustrating and reflects poorly on the program. Ford needs to clean up whatever he’s trying to accomplish. As it relates to the loss of talent - I’ve heard from enough people that know basketball to be confident that this is a big loss. The team is now heavily dependent on two injury prone bigs, French who has had foul trouble, and a freshman. Fair nuff Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnbj14 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 Just get me to the start of the season. Woke up this morning and moved on. Go Bills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 13 minutes ago, RiseAndGrind said: 05 - to clarify - I’m not speaking about Santos’ underlying behavior. I can’t speak on it. I’m saying Ford’s strategy of transfers isn’t working and I’m disappointed that he now finds himself down an available scholarship player (again) due to *some sort* of off the court issue(s). It’s frustrating and reflects poorly on the program. Ford needs to clean up whatever he’s trying to accomplish. As it relates to the loss of talent - I’ve heard from enough people that know basketball to be confident that this is a big loss. The team is now heavily dependent on two injury prone bigs, French who has had foul trouble, and a freshman. rise, while we have now whiffed on a number of transfers due to off court b.s., i'll take bess and foreman and call ford's transfers overall a success for the basketball program. bess seems to be a high quality guy to the nth degree and foreman really came on last year to show he will be a nice backup to french and gordon. SShoe, TheA_Bomb and slufanskip like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiseAndGrind Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 5 minutes ago, billiken_roy said: rise, while we have now whiffed on a number of transfers due to off court b.s., i'll take bess and foreman and call ford's transfers overall a success for the basketball program. bess seems to be a high quality guy to the nth degree and foreman really came on last year to show he will be a nice backup to french and gordon. That’s true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACE Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 This is disappointing news as there was some good buzz about Santos and it certainly hurts our depth, BUT this is not of S2 magnitude. On the heels of S2, I get that that we all long for some stability, but we're not losing 3 1/2 players like that deal. Look around college basketball, a player getting kicked off a team is quite common. I'd rather have something like this happen now, before the season gets rolling, rather than later. It won't be a distraction. We'll quickly move on and it's an opportunity for others to pick up minutes. This is why a coach should always be accumulating depth. We're fortunate to still have a starting caliber big coming off the bench in Foreman. Now the 4th big is a bit up for grabs, but Welmer, Hankton and Bess has served that role in small doses, are all possible options. This alone won't derail our NCAA Tourney dreams, but I'm more concerned about potential injury situations - Wiley, Isabel, Welmer, Foreman. Next man up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Pistol Posted September 26, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted September 26, 2018 No one knows what he did yet, so I won't speculate on that. He withdrew after an indefinite suspension for a violation of team rules. I'm not sure we've seen that pattern before here. Normally guys wait it out and get back to the team. Or if they withdraw, we've seen it for a multitude of reasons but not an indefinite suspension (at least as far as I can remember). All four guys who have left the program recently have been coming off a sit-out year. Bishop was the only one with a medical redshirt and not a transfer redshirt, but it's just weird that they've all been guys who we've been waiting on for a year-plus (shorter with Graves), and then they're gone before we get to see what they can do. I don't buy the narrative that we should be avoiding transfers. Bess and Foreman both appear to be high-character guys. We haven't seen any signs of problems from Wiley or Isabell at this point. If a guy has no previous incidents at his other program, how is that any different than a HS kid with no history of problems? There are some kids that shine as unusually high-character recruits but for most players, you do the best you can based on feel, relationships, remarks from coaches, meeting his family, etc. You can't always know what a guy is going to do in a new environment. Anyway, I don't think this is because transfers are lower character players in general than HS kids. I'm also seeing a lot of people starting to get upset with Ford and imply he's losing control or recruiting low-character players. He suspended a guy for breaking a rule. Isn't that how it's supposed to work? Isn't that what shows he's indeed in control? If he did nothing, that's where it becomes a problem. Also, I made the point in the previous paragraph, but no one who has left the program on his watch had a history of bad behavior coming in. None of them publicly came off as bad guys. I'm just not seeing what Ford is doing wrong here. Quality Is Job 1, billiken_roy, RiseOfTheBillikens and 8 others like this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 As for what we lose on the floor, frontcourt depth is a concern now. Yes, this opens the door for Gordon and French to play as many minutes as they want, but we're now counting on those two and Foreman staying healthy all season. If one of them goes down for a period of time, I'm not sure what the answer is aside from the other two playing 35 MPG (which honestly would be fun with French and Gordon but maybe not ideal for their own health). Santos has also undergone a remarkable physical transormation, first in his sit year, and more recently since the new strength and conditioning coach has helped him trim and sculpt even further. Practice videos have shown that he can really move for his size. The coaches gushed about his potential. He might have been competing with two younger, more talented bigs for minutes but there was no question to me that he was going to be an asset this season. Maybe not a starter, maybe not a 10-10 guy, but absolutely a rotation player and important contributor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willie Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 All I know is that I now care about Welmer's health. slufanskip likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMM28 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, Pistol said: As for what we lose on the floor, frontcourt depth is a concern now. Yes, this opens the door for Gordon and French to play as many minutes as they want, but we're now counting on those two and Foreman staying healthy all season. If one of them goes down for a period of time, I'm not sure what the answer is aside from the other two playing 35 MPG (which honestly would be fun with French and Gordon but maybe not ideal for their own health). Expecting a freshman big to not consistently be in foul trouble is also a bit troubling. Hasahn was also 2nd in the entire A10 in fouls - somehow still averaging 30 MPG though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billiken Rich Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 This loss may hurt but not as much as losing Graves, Henriques, and Bishop. We've still got plenty of forwards and the guy we're forgetting, Hankton, is not going to have to play 25 minutes a game like Hines did...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU_Lax Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 25 minutes ago, billiken_roy said: rise, while we have now whiffed on a number of transfers due to off court b.s., i'll take bess and foreman and call ford's transfers overall a success for the basketball program. bess seems to be a high quality guy to the nth degree and foreman really came on last year to show he will be a nice backup to french and gordon. And by all accounts, Foreman is a fantastic young man off-the-court. To me the silver lining is that we will get to see more of Foreman and he will get more of a chance to shine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 10 minutes ago, JMM28 said: Expecting a freshman big to not consistently be in foul trouble is also a bit troubling. Hasahn was also 2nd in the entire A10 in fouls - somehow still averaging 30 MPG though. Yep, good point. French averaged 3.3 fouls per game, our only player at 3+ in that category. Per 40 minutes, it becomes 4.4. Foreman was tied for 3rd in fouls per game, too, despite being 7th in minutes. He averaged 2.5 FPG, or 5.2 fouls per 40 minutes. So yeah, two foul-prone frontcourt players along with a freshman and that's a good illustration of why we needed all four of those bigs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUBillsFan Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 A timeline just because some people seem to be panicking and mixing up or ignoring this timeline: September 14, 2018 - TheOne makes the cryptic "There is good news, and there is bad news." post. September 23(?), 2018 - DPS sends out an email about a reported sexual assault during the night of September 22, 2018. September 25, 2018 - It is announced that Santos has withdrawn after being suspended indefinitely. It seems like some people are insinuating that it is simultaneously the "bad news" TheOne referenced and the 9/22 sexual assault. Unless TheOne has the ability to see into the future as well as seemingly having insider access to the basketball program, this cannot be the case. I'm going to speculate that TheOne was referencing the Santos departure because if the "bad news" was Wiley's injury (as 05 speculated), then it seems like TheOne would have just confirmed that. This is mean that the Santos departure is likely not related to the 9/22 incident and we really have no clue what he did. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorydays2013 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 French put up bigger numbers his freshmen year than Santos In his 2 years. Cag was at one point top 10 in the nation. We will be fine. We have welmer as rotation and even KC hankton. Starting lineup will go something like this 1. Goodwin 2. Isabel 3. Bess 4&5: French, Cag we will have foreman, thatch, Wiley, welmer, Jacobs and maybe even kc hankton or the icelandic kid. This is still a deep team. Honestly we needed trimming sometime this season. Sucks we wasted a scholarship also to reiterate Pistol NOT 1 of his teammates has hinted any support to him. I believe it was something that was against the team somewhat personally Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShoe Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 Obviously this hurts our front court depth and obviously we could use a healthy Welmer, but we'd be more than fine running Bess at the 4 spot for a few minutes per game and using an extra guard (Wiley or Thatch) at the 3 spot. What we'd lose on the inside game, we'd gain something back on the perimeter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgstl Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 22 minutes ago, Pistol said: As for what we lose on the floor, frontcourt depth is a concern now. Yes, this opens the door for Gordon and French One thing about the team's size that never gets mentioned(because of front court talent), we could easily go four guards at times. I'd love to see Goodwin - Thatch- Isabell- Bess - French/Gordon Zink likes this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 Just now, RUBillsFan said: A timeline just because some people seem to be panicking and mixing up or ignoring this timeline: September 14, 2018 - TheOne makes the cryptic "There is good news, and there is bad news." post. September 23(?), 2018 - DPS sends out an email about a reported sexual assault during the night of September 22, 2018. September 25, 2018 - It is announced that Santos has withdrawn after being suspended indefinitely. It seems like some people are insinuating that it is simultaneously the "bad news" TheOne referenced and the 9/22 sexual assault. Unless TheOne has the ability to see into the future as well as seemingly having insider access to the basketball program, this cannot be the case. I'm going to speculate that TheOne was referencing the Santos departure because if the "bad news" was Wiley's injury (as 05 speculated), then it seems like TheOne would have just confirmed that. This is mean that the Santos departure is likely not related to the 9/22 incident and we really have no clue what he did. Furthermore, Rammer and Ford were gushing about Santos on 9/21. There's no way they would've done that if they knew he was in trouble (i.e. TheOne's post was not about Santos.) We should stop treating TheOne's post with such breathless speculation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 Just wondering - if it was a grade problem then an indefinite suspension makes sense and his leaving also makes sense if he just doesn't like going to school. I understand that on 9/21 Ford was gushing about him but could it not me that he did not finish some summer work and everybody thought he would get it done but the time just passed and he didn't. This reminds me of the Willie thing - he just could not handle school. Now I do accept that it could be a whole set of other issues but like Pistol said, the kid screwed up somehow and now he is gone as it is suppose to be so lets just move on. Also, I wonder if Ford was concerned about Santos regarding something and that is why he picked up KC - many thought that was an odd addition given the log jam at the front court at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RUBillsFan Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 2 minutes ago, Pistol said: Furthermore, Rammer and Ford were gushing about Santos on 9/21. There's no way they would've done that if they knew he was in trouble (i.e. TheOne's post was not about Santos.) We should stop treating TheOne's post with such breathless speculation. Good point - although that goes against was I was assuming. Basically we have no clue about this and speculating is stupid. This is probably the worst reason to be upset over this news, but I thought it was going to be kind of cool to have a player named Luis Santos wearing a Saint Louis jersey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billikenfan05 Posted September 26, 2018 Share Posted September 26, 2018 1 minute ago, RUBillsFan said: Good point - although that goes against was I was assuming. Basically we have no clue about this and speculating is stupid. This is probably the worst reason to be upset over this news, but I thought it was going to be kind of cool to have a player named Luis Santos wearing a Saint Louis jersey. Also the first Billiken to play tight end in the NFL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.