Fall 2017 allegations against unnamed players (aka Situation 2)

[billikenfan05]

18 minutes ago, WestCoastBilliken said:

I think absolutely no one on this board has a clue what is going on and most of you are just making wild assumptions that SLU is dragging this out because "reasons".  I have a feeling a lot more goes into a Title 9 investigation that is completely out of the hands of every party. 

As I said at the very beginning of this investigation, SLU would be the loser. Either they are seen as blaming the victim / not taking them serious or they are seen as victimizing 3 young black kids. We are seeing the latter narrative start being played in some of these comments.

If you don’t think this isn’t the perfect chance for the high horse academics to point out that athletics don’t run universities you’re niaive. 

[Old guy]

What I definitely think is that this situation is a lose - lose situation. There is no way to come out ahead in this one. It is like a sack of decomposed goods hidden somewhere in a room, stinks the whole place up no matter what you do.

[kmbilliken]

13 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

If you don’t think this isn’t the perfect chance for the high horse academics to point out that athletics don’t run universities you’re niaive. 

Well put. That is exactly what I expect.

[almaman]

1 hour ago, Old guy said:

Hey guys, all you are doing is guessing and getting riled up. Why not wait and see what they come up with and THEN getting riled up about something factual and concrete.

should be title to this thread

[LindellWest]

2 hours ago, 615Billiken said:

True. I myself have been guilty of speculating and making claims about something I realistically don't know anything about. 

Unfortunately, I think it's just the product of frustration :/

Just taking part in the boards rich cultural history.

[3star_recruit]

13 hours ago, WestCoastBilliken said:

I think absolutely no one on this board has a clue what is going on and most of you are just making wild assumptions that SLU is dragging this out because "reasons".  I have a feeling a lot more goes into a Title 9 investigation that is completely out of the hands of every party. 

As I said at the very beginning of this investigation, SLU would be the loser. Either they are seen as blaming the victim / not taking them serious or they are seen as victimizing 3 young black kids. We are seeing the latter narrative start being played in some of these comments.

You keep talking about the Title 9 investigation being completely of SLU's hands.  Most of us are talking about allowing the kids to play during the investigation being completely in SLU's hands.  They're two different things.  And we know that kids can play during Title 9 investigation because other schools have done it.   And they've done it without penalty.  Any lawsuits brought against the school have been because of the outcome of the Title 9 investigation, not because kids played until a decision was reached.

[Billboy1]

Annual giving and calendar received today-will wait to see if decision is made before considering any money. Maybe should return with a note-"MAKE A DECISION"

[juniorbill76]

26 minutes ago, Billboy1 said:

Annual giving and calendar received today-will wait to see if decision is made before considering any money. Maybe should return with a note-"MAKE A DECISION"

“You decide, then I’ll decide.”

[Billboy1]

27 minutes ago, juniorbill76 said:

“You decide, then I’ll decide.”

Great-make it the slogan.

[LindellWest]

29 minutes ago, juniorbill76 said:

“You decide, then I’ll decide.”

I hope Dr. C uses the line while he is at the game tonight

[Clock_Tower]

On 12/8/2017 at 2:27 PM, billiken_roy said:

initially i had no problem with a suspension as i am sure they broke team rules in some manner with this escapade.   however, team rules suspensions are typically a game or two.  not a semester.  it's gone on far too long and because of the way it was handled i agree the three players have been wrongly tried and their reputations permanently at minimum tarnished if not ruined regardless of the final outcome.     

Anyone know what the range of punishment normally is violations of SLU code of conduct?  and/or for Title IX violations?   If guilty, is it usually expulsion?

If not expulsion, what punishment would a normal, non-scholarship athlete receive if he/she is found guilty of underage drinking?  if he/she is found to have had sex in a SLU dorm room?  if he/she publishes a sex tape without consent?  Probation?  community service?  loss of student housing privileges?  a monetary fine?  And must a scholarship athlete only be punished with loss of play in their sport?  or can they not published with the same items given to non-scholarship athletes?

Again, I would have levied a 3 to 5 game suspension and then allowed them to return pending resolution/outcome of the investigation.

[HoosierBilliken]

My prediction is that we will not know what's going to happen until they announce what is going to happen.  At this point, the only hope we probably have is to rock n roll in A10 play or win the A10 tournament.  I don't think we worry until A10 conference play begins.  If the players are not back by then, the season is probably over?

[kmbilliken]

1 hour ago, Clock_Tower said:

Anyone know what the range of punishment normally is violations of SLU code of conduct?  and/or for Title IX violations?   If guilty, is it usually expulsion?

If not expulsion, what punishment would a normal, non-scholarship athlete receive if he/she is found guilty of underage drinking?  if he/she is found to have had sex in a SLU dorm room?  if he/she publishes a sex tape without consent?  Probation?  community service?  loss of student housing privileges?  a monetary fine?  And must a scholarship athlete only be punished with loss of play in their sport?  or can they not published with the same items given to non-scholarship athletes?

Again, I would have levied a 3 to 5 game suspension and then allowed them to return pending resolution/outcome of the investigation.

I guess a lot will depend on who the judge is. Are they entitled to a hearing or is it all done based on reports of the investigation?

[gobillsgo]

Really reflected tonight at the game on how effed up this entire investigation has been. 

A couple of friends of my girlfriend that are still students came by our seats at the game and basically were like, “Some of our players raped people and are suspended.”  I really had to hold my tongue. 

That the players have been essentially outed by being suspended during the investigation goes against every Title IX regulation that demands anonymity.  

[Tilkowsky]

8 hours ago, gobillsgo said:

Really reflected tonight at the game on how effed up this entire investigation has been. 

A couple of friends of my girlfriend that are still students came by our seats at the game and basically were like, “Some of our players raped people and are suspended.”  I really had to hold my tongue. 

That the players have been essentially outed by being suspended during the investigation goes against every Title IX regulation that demands anonymity.  

Obviously winning basketball games is more important to you than finding out what happened.

What those students said may be true, nobody knows yet.

[gobillsgo]

32 minutes ago, Tilkowsky said:

Obviously winning basketball games is more important to you than finding out what happened.

What those students said may be true, nobody knows yet.

You’re one of the biggest trolls on this site. 

The police investigated and refused to press charges. Obviously pushing your agenda is more important than accepting the truth. 

[billiken_roy]

47 minutes ago, Tilkowsky said:

Obviously winning basketball games is more important to you than finding out what happened.

What those students said may be true, nobody knows yet.

what's sad is that you are really hoping for that to happen.

[Clock_Tower]

13 hours ago, kmbilliken said:

I guess a lot will depend on who the judge is. Are they entitled to a hearing or is it all done based on reports of the investigation?

Yes.  But I have to believe that the current Title IX investigation (hiring a law firm to conduct process) is not regularly done, or would not be done, if the accused was/were anyone other than men's basketball scholarship student athletes.   And short of expulsion, what has been/would be the punishment for posting a sex tape/photo without permission?  

Since 1972, have there been only 2 instances of Title IX/Code of Conduct violations at SLU?  Situation 1 and 2?  I have to believe, for instance, that a male scholarship swimmer and a female scholarship swimmer hooked up one night, she accused him of violations, the school/Title IX investigated, he was found guilty of violations, no rape/criminal charges were filed but that some punishment was levied upon him.  Wonder what that punishment was.

Also, same example but assume that the accused was a non-scholarship athlete and I wonder what that punishment was.  Make no mistake, this information is highly relevant, already has been requested of SLU by Rosenblum or will be the first thing requested by Roseblum at his earliest chance.  And if he male swimmer was given a 5 game suspension, then Dr. P better let our 3 boys play ASAP. 

[Tilkowsky]

29 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

what's sad is that you are really hoping for that to happen.

Absolutely not. I hope that the investigation finds the players innocent.

Whst is sad are the number of posters who don't care whether they are innocent or guilty.

They just want the players to play.

There is a boys will be boys sentiment among many of these posters.

That is sad.

Again,the players are to blame for being in this position. They are the ones who decided to have sex with these girls. I assume one of the players thought it was a good idea to video the encounter and allegedly share online.

Why are the players not being held accountable for their actions?

[billiken_roy]

13 minutes ago, Tilkowsky said:

Absolutely not. I hope that the investigation finds the players innocent.

 

then you are a complete idiot.   if there was even a sliver of a chance of real sexual assault, the players would have been taken into custody by the police at some point.  they never were.  this is soley the archaic saint louis university code of ethics that is dragging on far longer than it has to be.   the players are not guilty of sexual assault of any degree. 

you constantly talk about rush to judgement, yet you havent posted a timeline that backs up the need to be into the third month with nothing decided.   this should have been settled in two weeks.  

make a decision so all concerned can move on.   

 

[SLU_Lax]

36 minutes ago, Tilkowsky said:

 

Whst is sad are the number of posters who don't care whether they are innocent or guilty.

They just want the players to play.

There is a boys will be boys sentiment among many of these posters.

I know trolling is your thing, but this simply is not true. People want to see justice. Justice delayed is justice denied. 

Nobody is advocating for the players to not be punished for any non consensual activity. 

[3star_recruit]

This, my fellow posters, is what every man accused at SLU is up against.  From a 2 year old article where an innocent SLU student was suspended for a year:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/education/slu-case-highlights-the-gray-areas-of-campus-sex-assault/article_160c1a40-03c7-5db7-bb9d-ab23b1ca858e.html

Anna Kratky is SLU’s Title IX coordinator. She has a law degree and formerly worked in the circuit attorney’s office.

She defended the university’s process for handling sexual assault as “an absolutely fair process,” carried out by well-trained staff.

Additionally, Kratky said SLU is constantly revising its policies and making revisions to the entire investigative process.

“Frankly, we’re very proud of it,” she said.

 

[cheeseman]

1 hour ago, Clock_Tower said:

Yes.  But I have to believe that the current Title IX investigation (hiring a law firm to conduct process) is not regularly done, or would not be done, if the accused was/were anyone other than men's basketball scholarship student athletes.   And short of expulsion, what has been/would be the punishment for posting a sex tape/photo without permission?  

Since 1972, have there been only 2 instances of Title IX/Code of Conduct violations at SLU?  Situation 1 and 2?  I have to believe, for instance, that a male scholarship swimmer and a female scholarship swimmer hooked up one night, she accused him of violations, the school/Title IX investigated, he was found guilty of violations, no rape/criminal charges were filed but that some punishment was levied upon him.  Wonder what that punishment was.

Also, same example but assume that the accused was a non-scholarship athlete and I wonder what that punishment was.  Make no mistake, this information is highly relevant, already has been requested of SLU by Rosenblum or will be the first thing requested by Roseblum at his earliest chance.  And if he male swimmer was given a 5 game suspension, then Dr. P better let our 3 boys play ASAP. 

Actually the Post just had an article detailing one with just 2 students.  The man was expelled but later the ruling was reversed a year later.  I have no idea how many Title IX investigations have taken place at SLU but 2 is not the number.

[juniorbill76]

49 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

This, my fellow posters, is what every man accused at SLU is up against.  From a 2 year old article where an innocent SLU student was suspended for a year:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/education/slu-case-highlights-the-gray-areas-of-campus-sex-assault/article_160c1a40-03c7-5db7-bb9d-ab23b1ca858e.html

Anna Kratky is SLU’s Title IX coordinator. She has a law degree and formerly worked in the circuit attorney’s office.

She defended the university’s process for handling sexual assault as “an absolutely fair process,” carried out by well-trained staff.

Additionally, Kratky said SLU is constantly revising its policies and making revisions to the entire investigative process.

“Frankly, we’re very proud of it,” she said.

 

From that article:

”The idea behind the policy shift is generally considered a safer approach, she said. Because unlike in the criminal justice system, where the penalties are more serious, universities can easily backtrack when they make the wrong decision.”

Easier said than done.

[Spoon-Balls]

52 minutes ago, 3star_recruit said:

This, my fellow posters, is what every man accused at SLU is up against.  From a 2 year old article where an innocent SLU student was suspended for a year:

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/education/slu-case-highlights-the-gray-areas-of-campus-sex-assault/article_160c1a40-03c7-5db7-bb9d-ab23b1ca858e.html

Anna Kratky is SLU’s Title IX coordinator. She has a law degree and formerly worked in the circuit attorney’s office.

She defended the university’s process for handling sexual assault as “an absolutely fair process,” carried out by well-trained staff.

Additionally, Kratky said SLU is constantly revising its policies and making revisions to the entire investigative process.

“Frankly, we’re very proud of it,” she said.

 

 

http://www.ksdk.com/article/news/local/slus-title-ix-coordinator-explains-efforts-to-stop-sexual-assault/63-486757138