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Fall 2017 allegations against unnamed players (aka Situation 2)

DoctorB

By DoctorB
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GBL_Bills Sophomore

GBL_Bills

Posted
Posted
4 minutes ago, AnkielBreakers said:

But it is red.  Team colors maybe?

How many different colored door emojis are there? I think everyone’s reading too much into this. People (especially those of my generation) love posting pseudo-philosophical BS on Twitter all the time 

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cheeseman I have reached billiken_roy levels of posting

cheeseman

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8 minutes ago, dlarry said:

The problem is that they most likely broke some sort of University code of conduct stuff. So winning a law suit when they are "guilty" of violating school rules will be tough. 

The lawsuit  will be about them being held out while the investigation took place.  They broke no NCAA rules so they could have played.  If they were a safety problem then they would not have been allowed to stay on campus.  They were basically found guilty without the due process part  taking place.  At this point the school is going to end up settling out court on this if a suit is filed.  An injunction can be applied for an gotten to keep the school from keeping them from playing until all this is settled.  I would think that this will take place soon.  This can still be salvaged but the school is quickly approaching screwing it up.

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keyser soze Freshman

keyser soze

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If NO Crime occurred and we are only talking about Handbook/Honor Code Violations then the University has missed an amazing teaching moment.

Since universities are all "SAFE PLACES" with "SAFE SPACES" these days, this idea is probably WAY to real world to actually work at a College or University.

1. Start by making the young men apologize to the young women and their parents, make the young women apologize to their parents - FOR ALL being young and stupid.

2. Have the Men's and Women's Basketball, Soccer, Softball, Baseball go to every high school and middle school in St. Louis and lecture on the Consequences to BEING STUPID on Social MEDIA.

3. Make the "three" or "four" run till they throw up, pass out or begin to see a white light - IE Brother Eppy at Chaminade to anyone who got caught smoking.........

We've all been young and stupid, make it a learning experience that is applicable to the real world, no PC Bull $hit.

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billiken_roy I have reached billiken_roy levels of posting

billiken_roy

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the players should leave.   it isnt worth it.   they are being held hostage by the whole process.   they need to move on because slu isnt capable of making a decision.  

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JMM28 Listener of the Streets

JMM28

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1 minute ago, billiken_roy said:

the players should leave.   it isnt worth it.   they are being held hostage by the whole process.   they need to move on because slu isnt capable of making a decision.  

I'm not sure it is that easy with the title 9 investigation lingering. My understanding is that it doesn't go away just because a person leaves campus and it puts a mark on their official transcripts if they are found "guilty." If there is a pending investigation, other schools might not be interested in adding them to their roster. 

Its a crazy to think that a university can permanently mark someones transcripts as 'rapist' forever. 

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AnkielBreakers Senior

AnkielBreakers

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1 hour ago, GBL_Bills said:

How many different colored door emojis are there? I think everyone’s reading too much into this. People (especially those of my generation) love posting pseudo-philosophical BS on Twitter all the time 

You are probably right, he was probably just staring at a revolving door.

Of course, if you are wrong, I will go straight GloryDays and claim that I alone was persecuted for my correct interpretation of the tweet.  Actually, what does our local scryer have to say regarding this exact tweeting?  I cannot see his posts, they are too profound for my vision.

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kshoe I have reached billiken_roy levels of posting

kshoe

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20 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

the players should leave.   it isnt worth it.   they are being held hostage by the whole process.   they need to move on because slu isnt capable of making a decision.  

There's no value in leaving now. Wait a couple more weeks and see how this all plays out. You can transfer at any time prior to the next semester and it will be identical to transferring right now.

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billiken_roy I have reached billiken_roy levels of posting

billiken_roy

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2 minutes ago, kshoe said:

There's no value in leaving now. Wait a couple more weeks and see how this all plays out. You can transfer at any time prior to the next semester and it will be identical to transferring right now.

if you go D2, D3 or NAIA you can be playing instantly.  only one is likely a possible big time basketball prospect.   and if he is good enough he will be found.   look at rodman and pippen.  D2 and NAIA they were found.   slu has had more than enough time to make a decision.  it is more they are waiting because they can.  not because they have to.   make a decision.

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Wendelprof Freshman

Wendelprof

Posted
Posted (edited)
30 minutes ago, JMM28 said:

I'm not sure it is that easy with the title 9 investigation lingering. My understanding is that it doesn't go away just because a person leaves campus and it puts a mark on their official transcripts if they are found "guilty." If there is a pending investigation, other schools might not be interested in adding them to their roster. 

Its a crazy to think that a university can permanently mark someones transcripts as 'rapist' forever. 

The note on the transcript will not mark the students as a "rapist" - it will simply say something to the effect of "the student was disciplined/suspended/expelled for violating the student handbook."  The student is then free to explain the situation.

You might be surprised how many students have such notes on their transcripts.  Increasingly schools and employers are realizing - and accepting - that kids do stupid things while they are young.  The keys are (a) how stupid was it, and (b) did they learn from it.  It is not necessarily a damning note; other schools will be open to accepting them as transfer students if it comes to that (depending on how stupid was it and how much time has passed).

I have concerns based on the one player's tweet.  Based on it, my assumption (and it is completely an assumption) is that the investigator's report and recommendation is not good for the player (players? - it will be interesting to see if all three get the same treatment or if there are grounds for distinguishing them).  If that is the investigator's recommendation, the problem from the university's perspective is if it disagrees with the recommendation, it bears the burden of explaining why it didn't follow it.  That will be particularly difficult to do in this current social climate brought on by revelations concerning the conduct of our entertainment and political leaders.  I'm not sure the university will be able to do that if the investigator's report is not good.  The best case scenario is for the investigator's report to come in light.  The university can then accept it and shift the burden of explaining the outcome to the investigator.  Much more pessimistic scenario if the investigator's report is not good.

We should know more soon.

Edited by Wendelprof
typo error
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billikenfan05 I have reached billiken_roy levels of posting

billikenfan05

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7 minutes ago, Wendelprof said:

The note on the transcript will not mark the students as a "rapist" - it will simply say something to the effect of "the student was disciplined/suspended/expelled for violating the student handbook."  The student is then free to explain the situation.

You might be surprised how many students have such notes on their transcripts.  Increasingly schools and employers are realizing - and accepting - that kids do stupid things while they are young.  The keys are (a) how stupid was it, and (b) did they learn from it.  It is not necessarily a damning note; other schools will be open to accepting them as transfer students if it comes to that (depending on how stupid was it and how much time has passed).

I have concerns based on the one player's tweet.  Based on it, my assumption (and it is completely an assumption) is that the investigator's report and recommendation is not good for the player (players? - it will be interesting to see if all three get the same treatment or if there are grounds for distinguishing them).  If that is the investigator's recommendation, the problem from the university's perspective is if it disagrees with the recommendation, it bears the burden of explaining why it didn't follow it.  That will be particularly difficult to do in this current social climate brought on by revelations concerning the conduct of our entertainment and political leaders.  I'm not sure the university will be able to do that if the investigator's report is not good.  The best case scenario is for the investigator's report to come in light.  The university can then accept it and shift the burden of explaining the outcome to the investigator.  Much more pessimistic scenario if the investigator's report is not good.

We should know more soon.

Our resident Academic back to lecture us. 

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JMM28 Listener of the Streets

JMM28

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12 minutes ago, Wendelprof said:

The note on the transcript will not mark the students as a "rapist" - it will simply say something to the effect of "the student was disciplined/suspended/expelled for violating the student handbook."  The student is then free to explain the situation.

You might be surprised how many students have such notes on their transcripts.  Increasingly schools and employers are realizing - and accepting - that kids do stupid things while they are young.  They keys are (a) how stupid was it, and (b) did they learn from it.  It is not necessarily a damning note; other schools will be open to accepting them as transfer students if it comes to that (depending on how stupid was it and how much time has passed).

This all seems very...wrong. Hypothetically in a similar case with expulsions,  one of these guys could be at a job interview in 3 or 4 years that requires a transcript and be asked about this. What way is he supposed to respond? "I screwed up and learned from it" - nope you're a sexual predator. "I was the victim of a false accusation and the university needed to look good for PR reasons" - well you didn't learn from it and #rapeculture! That is an absolute no win situation. 

And all of that because the school (and most schools) has little clue on how to handle these situations. It is scary. 

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JMM28 Listener of the Streets

JMM28

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If anyone thinks there is going to a positive result in this process...read this...

http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/education/slu-case-highlights-the-gray-areas-of-campus-sex-assault/article_160c1a40-03c7-5db7-bb9d-ab23b1ca858e.html

and then the lineup of names on this. Seems loaded to one gender.

https://www.slu.edu/general-counsel-home/office-of-institutional-equity-and-diversity/sexual-misconduct-policy

 

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