cgeldmacher Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 1 hour ago, billiken_roy said: slu is paying for it. they better have some pull on both sides attorneys to get the process completed. if they dont you gotta wonder They would get sued just as fast, if not faster, by either side if it came out that the pressured the third party investigators to finish the investigation faster than the investigator felt was appropriate. I know you're emotional about this. I'm not happy about it either. Our society has gotten to the point where everyone has to find someone to blame for everything they are unhappy about. You must be one of these folks. So, if you need to point the finger, point it at the messed up system that has been created. SLU is only living in that messed up system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheeseman Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 1 minute ago, billiken_roy said: If the video indeed proves no assault but a totally consensual happening it seems to me common sense says it's a darn good thing there is a video. As to posting the video, agreed stupid. I would hope the young ladies have never done anything like that in their past and they have above reproach histories assuming a lawsuit might be coming their way as well. Honestly, I doubt these girls are newbies to this sort of thing. Mighty big step for the first time. I do agree the video was a good thing to have - now the posting not so good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgeldmacher Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 1 hour ago, Billiken Rich said: He also gave us the EPA so you aren't too far off blue font or not.... And OSHA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slu72 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 4 minutes ago, Tilkowsky said: Remember Duke lacrosse. That is why you don't rush to judgement. I didn't make any judgement call. Just said drinking may be the determining factor. Not too drunk, they may well be cleared. Too drunk, they may well pay a price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cgeldmacher Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 I'm wondering if the hold up is more related to trying to figure out who posted a video, where was it posted, who saw it, etc. The video may have cleared the rape allegations, but created new allegations that would take more time to investigate than the original claims by the girls. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoBills73 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 3 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said: I'm wondering if the hold up is more related to trying to figure out who posted a video, where was it posted, who saw it, etc. The video may have cleared the rape allegations, but created new allegations that would take more time to investigate than the original claims by the girls. This to me seems highly likely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Yeah, in talking to a few other friends about this, it seems like the video has to be the complicating factor here, the thing dragging this on so long. It's also not a 1-on-1 case, but the video seems to complicate matters way more than the number of participants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adman Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 36 minutes ago, GBL_Bills said: Non-consensual videotaping is explicitly prohibited in the student handbook under "sexual exploitation". And, if the rumored video was consensual, but the sharing of it was not, then that falls under "including observing or allowing another individual t0 observe another’s nudity or sexual activity without the Effective Consent of all individuals’ involved" Yes, agree, that’s the umbrella language I was referring to. Highly likely the posting of video was not consensual and would be violation. But other than that, what else is anyone highly clear about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 i woudl think mr snapchat could provide such proof in a very short time. no not buying that stall explanation. HenryB likes this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 The comment period ending Wednesday at 5:00 Central puts to rest any idea that they could play Saturday or Tuesday. However, Tuesday marks regular season game #10, and if we get a ruling shortly after the period closes, maybe we could see them get a penalty of "suspension served" (10 games) and be able to play at Oregon State on the 16th. I don't see why they wouldn't be able to play during the appeals process, if that is the outcome. 10 games would be a pretty strict suspension for a violation of conduct without any actual assault charges. There's also a chance the penalty is harsher, and we'd be looking at about 2 weeks after Wednesday for the recommended period for appeals to wrap up, putting us just after Christmas. If cleared then, they could be able to play again at La Salle on 12/30. Those seem like the two most likely outcomes to me. SLU hired a third party investigator for the investigation itself, but after Wednesday at 5:00, the school is responsible for the timeliness and severity of the Notice of Outcome, the appeals process, and the ultimate decision after appeal(s). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GBL_Bills Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 1 minute ago, Adman said: Yes, agree, that’s the umbrella language I was referring to. Highly likely the posting of video was not consensual and would be violation. But other than that, what else is anyone highly clear about? Nothing that I know of. Even the video is speculation/rumors from what I've seen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bills_06 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 My main problem is not the duration but the suspension of players. If the police didn't investigate or the police cleared them, they should have been able to play as normal until the Title IX process decided the punishment. Based on what the Wiz posted, this should wrap up around average length of Title IX investigation. The problem of the length of the process is the system, not just SLU. Only hope is maybe they (players representatives, Ford and players) knew they would be suspended for some games and decided it was better to try and miss them early? It's on to SLU to speed up this process so after next Wednesday Dr. P loses all excuses of an outside investigation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 initially i had no problem with a suspension as i am sure they broke team rules in some manner with this escapade. however, team rules suspensions are typically a game or two. not a semester. it's gone on far too long and because of the way it was handled i agree the three players have been wrongly tried and their reputations permanently at minimum tarnished if not ruined regardless of the final outcome. Bobby Metzinger likes this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Not that I want this process extended even further but I think the video should have been a separate title ix investigation. The players should have been cleared of physical sexual assault within a few days and then they should have investigated the video separately. The fact that everyone is getting pulled into the same investigation is absolutely crazy to me and in my opinion, that one is 100% on SLU. Bobby Metzinger likes this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLU_Lax Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 I will be very pleasantly surprised if the players are at any games before the A10 opener. Due to the speed that things have moved thus far, I am surprised nobody is predicting that it will be late January or early February before anything is concluded. We are just now entering the phases where the individuals' lawyers are getting involved and can bring up additional complicating evidence and theories that may lengthen the process significantly. Everything up to this point has been a relatively straight-forward investigation of what happened that night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billiken_roy Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 1 minute ago, SLU_Lax said: I will be very pleasantly surprised if the players are at any games before the A10 opener. Due to the speed that things have moved thus far, I am surprised nobody is predicting that it will be late January or early February before anything is concluded. We are just now entering the phases where the individuals' lawyers are getting involved and can bring up additional complicating evidence and theories that may lengthen the process significantly. Everything up to this point has been a relatively straight-forward investigation of what happened that night. that should have been resolved in about a day. HenryB likes this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slufan13 Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 As Pistol said, this investigation/situation is 100% in SLU's court as of Wednesday. Any delay in the process at that point is 100% on SLU. A couple of thoughts on that point: - If the ruling is in favor of the players and the women appeal, the players should be allowed to play during the appeal process. Not doing so would be ridiculous in my opinion. - If SLU decides to pause the process during Christmas break, I think all hell would break loose and rightfully so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kshoe Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 51 minutes ago, slufan13 said: As Pistol said, this investigation/situation is 100% in SLU's court as of Wednesday. Any delay in the process at that point is 100% on SLU. A couple of thoughts on that point: - If the ruling is in favor of the players and the women appeal, the players should be allowed to play during the appeal process. Not doing so would be ridiculous in my opinion. - If SLU decides to pause the process during Christmas break, I think all hell would break loose and rightfully so. Two great points. I've been wondering what would happen if the ruling is in favor of the players. I suppose if there is still a chance it gets reversed the players wouldn't want to do it for fear of losing a full year of eligibility. If SLU doesn't complete this by Christmas break then even the most patient of people will be done with them. I have to think Pestello and co understand this but nothing should surprise us at this point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pistol Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 13 minutes ago, kshoe said: Two great points. I've been wondering what would happen if the ruling is in favor of the players. I suppose if there is still a chance it gets reversed the players wouldn't want to do it for fear of losing a full year of eligibility. If SLU doesn't complete this by Christmas break then even the most patient of people will be done with them. I have to think Pestello and co understand this but nothing should surprise us at this point. Exams are the 13th through the 19th, and if we have something final before the 20th, I would take that. With the pressure getting so high, I can't imagine they would really adjourn from this whole process for Christmas break. Spring classes don't begin until January 16th. Even if they took the week between Christmas and January 1st off, we'd lose our minds. If we're to believe they stick to the recommended periods for review and appeals, the decision could very well be that week. To reiterate my point above: Starting Wednesday at 5:00 Central, the timetable and decisions become the sole responsibility of SLU and its administration. When that happens, no more "We're letting the process play out with a third-party investigator." It's on them at that point, and they know the stakes here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARon Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 20 minutes ago, kshoe said: If SLU doesn't complete this by Christmas break then even the most patient of people will be done with them. I have to think Pestello and co understand this but nothing should surprise us at this point. It is a pretty big jump to assume the final decision makers here give a damn about the team’s won-loss record. If anything they may want to demonstrate just how little that matters to them. That being said, if this is not resolved in some form by Christmas break I would expect at least some of the accused to seriously consider enrolling at another school for the spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmbilliken Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 If the violation is posting the video, did all three post it? I doubt that and I doubt all three concurred it should be done. If they did, it looks bad for all three. If it was just one, it looks bad for that one. If it is something else that all agreed to, any punishment should also include the women. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old guy Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 Hey guys, all you are doing is guessing and getting riled up. Why not wait and see what they come up with and THEN getting riled up about something factual and concrete. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnkielBreakers Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 11 minutes ago, Old guy said: Hey guys, all you are doing is guessing and getting riled up. Why not wait and see what they come up with and THEN getting riled up about something factual and concrete. Well, I think you miss the point that most people have heard a second hand account of what has happened. We have little faith to trust the actions of the school based on prior precedent. Therefore, we are riled up because we expect the school is acting in the same or similar fashion. In fact, I don't know why we are not more riled up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestCoastBilliken Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 I think absolutely no one on this board has a clue what is going on and most of you are just making wild assumptions that SLU is dragging this out because "reasons". I have a feeling a lot more goes into a Title 9 investigation that is completely out of the hands of every party. As I said at the very beginning of this investigation, SLU would be the loser. Either they are seen as blaming the victim / not taking them serious or they are seen as victimizing 3 young black kids. We are seeing the latter narrative start being played in some of these comments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
615Billiken Posted December 8, 2017 Share Posted December 8, 2017 19 minutes ago, WestCoastBilliken said: I think absolutely no one on this board has a clue what is going on and most of you are just making wild assumptions that SLU is dragging this out because "reasons". I have a feeling a lot more goes into a Title 9 investigation that is completely out of the hands of every party. As I said at the very beginning of this investigation, SLU would be the loser. Either they are seen as blaming the victim / not taking them serious or they are seen as victimizing 3 young black kids. We are seeing the latter narrative start being played in some of these comments. True. I myself have been guilty of speculating and making claims about something I realistically don't know anything about. Unfortunately, I think it's just the product of frustration :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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