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Old Guy. Could not agree more. Too many have taken for granted all that our Bills have achieved. Last year was to be our year with a our veteran team but SLU's zealous Title IX created and pursued their own agenda.. Nonetheless, Coach Ford re-loaded with some higher risk grad transfers, we lost a transfer big before the season, then we lost another big - one of the most talented yet most-selfish, biggest head-cases in program history (which many apparently and inexplicably would welcome back) and still found a way to make the NCAA Tournament. This year was to be our rebuilding year. Two returning, talented Juniors (one that could score, rebound and has an incredible competitive motor though not the best shot or decision-making to run the offense and another who has elite power and strength around the basket though not a mid-range game or FT shooting) and a returning Sophomore who proved he be a defensive shut-down player with hopes that his high scoring prowess would return) and we fold in 2 more returning Sophomores (neither who played much or contributed much - and whom many thought might both transfer, who when they did play were described as "deer in a headlight", "weak" and "played without a clue" and we add in a group of newcomers: a local JUCO and several true freshmen. Some of our better posters who had seen these guys play repeatedly cautioned us that the local Frosh were talented but had a lot to learn, were not coached all that well prior to SLU and told us that starting may not happen right away and may not occur until his Junior year here at SLU. Our other 2 Frosh were late additions, big athletic guys, projects: one who did not play much/accomplish much in high school other than losing nearly 100 pounds and the other still recovering from a prior serious injury. Did this group improve under Coach Ford? Absolutely. Remember when our lesser posters would say that Coach Ford could not develop players? Sure, they ignored Bess, etc. but they also should be reminded that Jimerson missed every single shot of his in this year's exhibition but shortly thereafter leading our team such as the Tulane game. After both he and Big Three member Thatch stopped playing this year, Coach Ford developed one of the local Frosh - Yuri - who now runs our offense and plays 30 to 35 minutes per game - 12 assists v. VCU and the all-time Freshman assist record -- all for a guy who might now start until his Junior year - yeah, I would say that is player development. And how about Perkins who went from not getting off the bench, who initially looked clueless on the court and who appeared to have never played defense - EVER - and yet he slowly became better, played more, shot more and has turned into possibly our best offensive weapon? Yeah, that looks like player development. And Jacobs? Last year playing in less than half the games, averaging 2 minutes per game - and this year? a starter all year and real contributor? Yeah, more player development. And how about the improvement by Goodwin this year? More development next year? I sure hope and expect so. In fact, I would be both quite disappointed and surprised if that did not happen. I am not down on Yuri - no personal issues with him. Similarly, I had not personal issues with Thatch last year. Instead, just being consistent. Both get a pass their Freshman years - just to be a contributor your Freshman year is great -- Thatch last year as a defensive specialist primarily, this year with Yuri as an assist-first PG and this year, Bell, a role player offensively, rebounding and inside presence. But just as I said last year, Thatch needed to up his game in the off-season (and he apparently did) to become an offensive threat and just as I expect of Yuri and Bell for next year - both to be more complete, more all-around players. Good teams have players who have more complete, all-around players.

Some people do not believe in brevity

He’s a freshman. He’s a freshman and he’s number 1 in the nation among freshmen in assists. He’s a freshman and he’s playing 35 minutes a game for 20+ win team. It’s unrealistic to expect him to be a complete all-around player at this point in his career. He will be a better player next year than he was this year, especially when his hands/wrists are back to 100%. Cut the kid some slack.

Taj Good points. Good discussion. Maybe the line is not as clear as I have in my head, but I do draw a line between development from the coach vs. the player. In contrast, Skip appears to take a different approach (which may be equally valid or more valid) of not drawing a line at all but instead assessing a percentage as to what is on the kid vs. what is on the coach. Now, as far as Skip's argument is concerned, an 80-20 split is not all that unreasonable. Different figures can be thrown out - though I do believe with Skip's main point: most of the credit/blame belongs on the player. With that said, here's an attempt to draw a line as to what is on the player vs. what is on the coach. To me, a coach can greatly improve/destroy a kid with playing time (or the lack thereof), by asking him to do too much/too little (expose him and destroy confidence), put him in a position to succeed (or fail) and give him proper/needed verbal and demonstrative support (or ignore him). A player, alone, must improve his skills to make the shot in the game, to dribble/pass effectively in the game, to get stronger, quicker, lighter, etc., to execute in the game as instructed... A few examples: Coach Ford, by all accounts, has worked extensively with our guys shooting FT's. Yes, not every great player is a a great coach, but Coach Ford was a great player and an even better FT shooter and I have to believe that Coach Ford and staff have done all that they (or anyone can reasonably expect from a coaching staff) can do with the guys. Their current level of performance is all on them - not Coach Ford. And any Improvement, or lack of improvement, is all on them. Coach Ford gets very little credit from me for Perkins and Jimerson's success at the line just as he and staff get very little blame from me for the successes/failures of the others at the line. If French and Yuri develop a mid-range game is all on them. If Yuri finishes at the rim is all on him - or as Skip might say, is 80% on them. The improved shooting of Bess was mostly (80%?) all on him - though Ford gets some credit for basic instructions, reminders and giving Bess freedom and confidence (20%?). And yes, the guys you mentioned who mostly did not turn out to be the players we had hoped they would - and yes, that was largely due to them (80%) - their lack of initial talent and their lack of extreme dedication to get bigger, stronger, quicker and better - which ultimately is on the player - not just the system (20%?). .Now, in my examples, I give Coach Ford little credit for Jimerson being an excellent shooter - that was done by him prior to arriving at SLU. But what I meant and what I give credit for with Ford is that he did not give up on Jimerson, he stuck with him, he gave him more and more opportunities, our offense ran some screens - and the shot started to fall. Also, Jimerson and Perkins played some of the very worst defense I had ever seen when I first watched them. Both truly improved their games defensively. Jimerson initially ignored the pick being set for him. Our offense, though, generally was bad and therefore it is tough to say we tried to run screens for anyone as I suspect we meant to run screens for everyone from day 1 but we just weren't very good at things yet. Later he started to use them - but frankly, he got injured too soon. Perkins? He took not only alot of shots from the very beginning (but the shots he took were bad shots) - not part of the offense, at the wrong time... but all of that changed. Do I give credit Ford credit for Perkins' being an extremely good offensive talent? No, but I give credit for providing him with structure for his talents to shine, for making him be a more team player and for his defense. Hargrove? well that is simply a more difficult challenge for Coach Ford - though I see alot of improvement to date. Jacobs? yes, I give Ford alot of credit - simply not the same kid as last year. Yuri? Again, Ford gets very little credit for Yuri's raw talents, vision and effort... though I do see improvement from Yuri in the form of smarter choices, less errant passes, more pulling the ball back when the numbers/situation is not present vs. full speed no matter what, and a much more clean version of the offense/structure. But most importantly, I give credit to Coach Ford for molding all this new, raw talent together. Again, look around the league and D1 generally. I keep pointing to MO State - but it's true. Our guys have bought in. I have never seen Coach Ford players quit or give up. And most importantly, I heard no complaints and saw no signs of real frustration, sulking, anger, etc. when Perkins sat the bench and played only 2 minutes per page - or never got off the bench. Same with Hargrove. Same with Diarra. Same with Bell who played the first 4 minutes and then sometimes sat the next 36 minutes. To me, that has been the best part of this year.

Analytics will almost always say the mid range shot is not a good option. Hence:

Probably because he found out just now that his failure to enroll in and/or complete the proper JUCO classes is going to have a negative impact on his ability to become the next LeBron James. Of course, it's not his fault, either. He likely just heard that he can't transfer to whatever school he was going to spend 8 weeks at next because of inadequate transcripts.

Mods, please close this thread

This is why he compares favorably to Harry Rogers of the early 70s. Harry had an outside and inside game. He was 6'7" and lanky like Perkins. They also both look effortless in putting the ball in the hoop.

We can play this game of "what he needs to improve" with every freshman/transfer that comes through. My assumption is that every talented player will improve their game over four years. Isn't it yours? Some guys dramatically improve on their weaknesses (Bess improving his 3pt shot and free throw shooting), some guys get better at things that were already strengths (Goodwin's rebounding, scoring inside). I have no idea what Yuri's improvement will look like. He might become a better finisher around the basket instead of developing a mid-range jumper. He may plateau as a scorer and then jump to double figures as a junior after the Big Three graduate. There's a lot of possibilities. But one thing I'm not going to do is set timelines and arbitrary performance goals and then ding him if he doesn't meet them. Seems like an exercise in frustration to me.

Ford just said on Frank's show that Thatch will redshirt this year and that he was expecting him to be back to 100% soon.

https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/1846606/three-of-the-four-xfl-games-drew-higher-tv-ratings-than-any-nba-or-college-basketball-game-last-week It's not (just) the conference. Like it or not, football is king (I don't particularly). Throw in a little scorned wife showing off the new boyfriend, and it's pretty easy to see why the XFL, at least for now, is a huge draw in STL. I doubt we'd get that much attention even if we were BEASTing it.

No coach can improve a players skill level. He/she can only show, demonstrate, correct, demand, etc ... the player has to have the desire and the will to improve. To become good you have to work on your own

Ido.

Oh no! I just made popcorn!

I'm not saying that we should continue shooting these (I agree with you on this) - we were speaking about who has been a good shooter from mid range. These are decent percentages from mid range - that's precisely why the shot is going away

Mathematically we have a 10% chance to be 4 and 8, 25% chance to be 5,6 or 7

This Harry Rodgers talk brings up a sore point with me. If I remember he was not named to our all-century team. That's like Larry Bird not making an all time Celtics team.

well actually he was a full semester (plus possibly some summer before freshman year stated) at slu and then he had the spring semester at depaul and one would think he was taking summer courses at depaul. now whether he passed anything is another story. he just needs to get on a boat to another country and play foreign pro basketball. he is never going to be a college player imo. and honestly i am not sure if he is mature enough to succeed at anything at this point. he is a total disaster from my view.

I'm among the biggest Yuri fans on the board and he did dominate the VCU game and he did it without scoring 10 ppg. However, he isn't dishing 12 assists every game. What you said is true, so is what Taj and I believe Clock said. Like all frosh he's still got area's to develop. I'm sure he'd agree. Love to see him shoot the 3 more consistently and take 2-3 shots every game, and to see him have a more effective pull up jumper from 10-15 feet along with becoming a better free throw shooter. I'm betting over the course of the next 3 years those things and possibly more happen. I'd also say if he doesn't get better at any of those things and just builds upon his current strengths he'd be my pg going forward and I'd be estatic

must fun win KState @ KC... if you were there

If you are taking only about four year players, your point is solid. If one year players are allowed into the dialogue, there is a guy who played a year or two after Clagget who might have dibs on best offensive (and defensive) Billiken ever....

A great Bills win. When Has finished the game with a reverse slam dunk..I thought ...probably not a good idea....but then I thought it was a fitting exclamation point to a huge win....Why? Because we haven't beaten the Rams since 2013 (0-9). A lot of frustration washed away with this game...... A tip o' the cap to star of the game Perkins ...not just for his 25 pts but some eye popping stats...check out his slash...72/ 75/100...you know that Magic 180 Majerus line I always talk about...he blew through that with a whopping 247. Did I mention the 7 reb, plus a steal and a block? It doesn't get any better. ...Other good performances tonight were Has shooting 72% from the field to rack up 18 pts with 7 reb, 3 asst, 2 blks and 2 steals.. coming off the bench Hargrove had 11pts. and 4 reb and was like a spark plug to the team and crowd with some spectacular slam dunks.....Goodwin another dble -dble 10 pts and 11 rebs...all together 4 Bills in double figures. Lets review the WWN2D2W from the original post up top....in bold .Mr VCU is Santos-Silva...he leads the team in PPG , Reb, FG%, & Blks. ..no double double ...hold him to a single - single.. Almost...11pts and 6 reb....good job on him If he(Evans) is out, Hyland will pickup the slack...in the last game against Day he was the high scorer with 18 pts.....keep this guy to 10 pts. Check..we hold him to 3pts. We should win the reb battle by at least 6...Crushed them on the boards by 15...this was a huge factor in the game. TOs...VCU is 3rd ITN with 9.8/gm...we need to match them...protect the ball ...no unforced errors...We actual had fewer TOs nearly the entire game...It was only in the closing minutes with the game well in hand did we give up a few TOs to give them the edge..11-13 ....Keeping the TOs down was big in helping us build the lead. .Bills slash...46/35/62...actual slash...57 /44/50..a difference maker...let me also show you the VCU slash...40/28/58...and that's what good Bills D looks like ..The key to this game will be whether Evans plays or not...well he played but not really...13 min and 1 pt...last year when VCU beat us by 6 , Evans scored 20...this year he scores 1 pt...a swing of 19 pts...almost the same swing as the game spread...again that is what good Bills D looks like. and finally , we play to the competition...which in this case will be a plus.....we certainly played to the competition and then some...We played 2 good halves...what a difference that makes Next , let's deal with post season....Our best chance now is to finish 4th...with the Duq loss tonight , there is now a path to 4th...not an easy one ...but a path...First and most difficult we need to win out...go 5-0...if that happens then we are chasing 3 teams...Duq and St. B and Dav....Assume Dav will lose to Day...we finish ahead of them...the key game that doesn't involve us is Feb 26...Duq vs St. B...somebody has to lose....let's start with Duq...1st I will assume they lose to Day on Feb 22...next, let's assume they beat St. B...then they need 1 loss against either GM , VCU or Rich and we are in 4th...next let's assume that St. B beats Duq on Feb 26...then St. B needs 1 loss to either Rich (2/22) , LaS or St. J...if that happens we finish 4th. If we finish 4th we still have to win the tourney but only need 3 games for the auto bid. ....You ask what if we only win 2 tourney games and finish with 24 wins...not good enough for an at large.... 33% chance for a bid....not all is lost ...but the odds are against us....I put this in again because it is still relevant...the only difference is we now need only 4 wins to finish 4th.

This board: "Carte'Are, we hope you learned a valuable lesson because we'd like to welcome you ba-" Gordon: FUOK YOU, B!TCH. TWO TIMES.

I certainly hope we have enough sense to just say no. If he wanted to come back, I'd tell him enroll in a local school for 1 year, have perfect attendance and good grades and then we can talk about it. No transferring, you have to make it through the year at one place and excel and honestly that's just to have a discussion. In other words I'd just tell him no

I actually agree with Roy on this one. No thanks. I’d take a year or two of Brett Jolly before Gordon.

Dayton was eliminated in the first round of the NIT last year. Now they are a top 5 team. I understand if people just want to watch additional NIT games because they're basketball fans but it has no bearing on our performance next season. Next season is next season. Hopefully our youngsters get better over the summer and Jimerson and Thatch are both ready to go at the start of the season. Anything the incoming class can give us will be a bonus. This season has been enjoyable even with our erratic play. Lots of good things have happened so far.

Third will be a hamstring... fourth will be an ankle injury... Again, other you watching a guy warm up with no pressure, no defense, not in a game ... you believe , when healthy, he will be a good stretch 4 for us? Good stuff!