NCAA agrees to end transfer rules permanently;

[someoneelse]

Athletes who lost eligibility will have year restored.

 

For years lost since 2019-2020.

 

So now they tell us.  

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5530608/2024/05/30/ncaa-transfer-rules-banned-permanently/

[Lord Elrond]

Yeah, this is the NCAA retreating from an unwinnable legal position, so they are cutting their losses and running up the surrender flag. I always wondered how they thought they would ever win when for non-revenue sports they’ve had immediate eligibility for transfers as a policy for years. How did they ever expect to win when some judge asked them “Why do you insist on having a men’s basketball player who transfers sit out a year, while a women’s soccer player is immediately eligible to play?”

It still gives individual schools and the NCAA the ability to deny playing on academic reasons, so Abou Magassa would still have been ineligible last year.

[Billikenbooster]

But does the ncaa have rules regarding eligibility to play or is that left to individual schools/conferences?

[Lord Elrond]

59 minutes ago, Billikenbooster said:

But does the ncaa have rules regarding eligibility to play or is that left to individual schools/conferences?

There are NCAA rules about initial academic eligibility, which is what kept Abou Magassa from playing last year. Once a player is initially eligible, the following applies:

To maintain eligibility for competition and athletic financial aid, each student-athlete must meet several institutional, conference, and NCAA requirements. In general, student athletes must:

• Be enrolled and attending as a full-time student each semester (12+ credits for undergraduate; 9 credits + for graduate)
• Each semester, you must earn 6 credits of coursework that apply to graduation in your designated academic program (Football Only: nine hours completed during the Fall term)
• Earn a minimum of 24 hours of coursework in your academic program during the first year in order to be eligible to compete the next year
• Earn at least 18 hours in your major every academic year, (fall and spring semesters)
• Declare a major before the third year or 5th semester of your enrollment in college
• Make sure all of your courses are applicable toward your academic degree program in order to be used for eligibility purposes
• Beginning with your 3rd semester of enrollment, you must meet GPA requirements as indicated below. Your GPA will be checked at the beginning of each term. Beginning with your 5th semester of enrollment, you must meet percentage-of-degree requirements as noted in the chart below as well.

 

Percentage-of-Degree Requirements

Entering	Percentage	Cumulative GPA
2nd Year	N/A	1.8*
3rd Year	40%	1.9*
4th Year	60%	2.0
5th Year	80%	2.0

*If a student-athlete drops below a cumulative GPA of 2.0, a corrective action plan and agreement will be put into place for the student.

The information above lists the general standards of eligibility. There may be opportunity for an academic eligibility waiver if certain qualifying criteria is not met.

 

Academic Integrity

As a Division I student-athlete, you are responsible for representing yourself, your team, your university and the conference in the best possible manner. Your academic conduct is monitored by not only the Student- Athlete Academic Services staff, but also various on campus entities. It is critical to complete work within the athletic department, university, and NCAA guidelines to ensure your eligibility is never at risk.

Under current NCAA legislation, institutions are responsible for the conduct of its employees and any academic misconduct by those individuals is subject to NCAA investigation if they are associated with providing impermissible assistance to student-athletes. It should be understood by these employees, and student-athletes alike, that the NCAA constitutes Unethical Conduct and Academic Misconduct as very serious matters and individuals are expected to act with honesty and integrity in all academic matters.

Note that some conferences and schools may insist on stricter rules if they want. On the other hand, it is up to a school and the requirements of the students major. I have no doubt a school can keep anyone eligible if they really want to, and if a school certifies a players grades as having met standards, unless there is outright cheating involved that should be good enough. How long this lasts I can’t say. The one thing the courts won’t do is impose academic standards on a university. On the other hand, if the NCAA decides to jettison the academic part of an employees requirements, I doubt the courts will care. 

[kshoe]

So basically there is free agency every year, revenue sharing and NIL Pay for Play, and it's nearly impossible to be ruled academically ineligible once you are initially cleared. And the SEC wants to expand the NCAA tournament so that the regular season becomes even less important.

If it weren't for the Bills hopefully having a resurgent season my interest would be at an all-time low.

[billikenfan05]

[Lord Elrond]

22 minutes ago, kshoe said:

So basically there is free agency every year, revenue sharing and NIL Pay for Play, and it's nearly impossible to be ruled academically ineligible once you are initially cleared. And the SEC wants to expand the NCAA tournament so that the regular season becomes even less important.

If it weren't for the Bills hopefully having a resurgent season my interest would be at an all-time low.

Very accurate summary.

[Dr. Holly Hills]

So what about mid year transfers?  Can we pick up (or lose) a player just in time for conference play?!?

I have no idea how this is going to play out, but no way this is even remotely sustainable.

[Lord Elrond]

14 minutes ago, Dr. Holly Hills said:

So what about mid year transfers?  Can we pick up (or lose) a player just in time for conference play?!?

I have know idea how this is going to play out, but no way this is even remotely sustainable.

I have no idea. For now, players still have to be students enrolled at the university they play for, and must remain academically eligible, which includes completing a minimum amount of coursework successfully, which would seem to mean transferring only after completing a semester, not in mid semester. But who really knows? If players become employees, couldn’t they be bound by employment contract to stay at least the year? I’m not sure I know how this ultimately plays out.

[SluSignGuy]

2 hours ago, kshoe said:

So basically there is free agency every year, revenue sharing and NIL Pay for Play, and it's nearly impossible to be ruled academically ineligible once you are initially cleared. And the SEC wants to expand the NCAA tournament so that the regular season becomes even less important.

If it weren't for the Bills hopefully having a resurgent season my interest would be at an all-time low.

Very similar sentiment.  And I concede, I am not even in love with how the Billikens will be resurgent.  I want them to be good, but we pretty much bought our team when part of what I like about college sports is seeing players develop and having to work through imperfections because you can't have a player play forever (except if your name is Gibson)

[brianstl]

2 hours ago, kshoe said:

So basically there is free agency every year, revenue sharing and NIL Pay for Play, and it's nearly impossible to be ruled academically ineligible once you are initially cleared. And the SEC wants to expand the NCAA tournament so that the regular season becomes even less important.

If it weren't for the Bills hopefully having a resurgent season my interest would be at an all-time low.

I would rather have the SEC get the tournament expanded than have them decide to do their own thing.  Plus, with how many teams now play D1 basketball the tournament should be bigger.  When the tournament first expanded to 64 teams, 23% of all teams made the tournament.  an equivalent percentage today would get you 83 teams in the tournament.  

[Old guy]

I do not think students should also be professional players at the same time. I do not think schools should pay large amounts of money to cover the idiotic decisions made by the NCAA or their conferences. Endowments are not eternal and will eventually be drained. Billionaire donors are not obligated to use their money to cover the professional student athletes schools get. The Athletic department may well become a puncture that drains the school's finances. Eventually the donors will say enough is enough.

I think we are in a transition period. If we are going to go anywhere with the basketball team we better do it within the next few years before the NCAA becomes a tool of the SEC and the Power Conferences. The free agent "students" are just not compatible with the academic status or endowment of a college/university. Fontbonne will close next year, should the same fate be in the not so  distant future of SLU? We need that new president soon, and we really need a guy who can make tough decisions when required.

[willie]

1 hour ago, Old guy said:

I do not think students should also be professional players at the same time. I do not think schools should pay large amounts of money to cover the idiotic decisions made by the NCAA or their conferences. Endowments are not eternal and will eventually be drained. Billionaire donors are not obligated to use their money to cover the professional student athletes schools get. The Athletic department may well become a puncture that drains the school's finances. Eventually the donors will say enough is enough.

I think we are in a transition period. If we are going to go anywhere with the basketball team we better do it within the next few years before the NCAA becomes a tool of the SEC and the Power Conferences. The free agent "students" are just not compatible with the academic status or endowment of a college/university. Fontbonne will close next year, should the same fate be in the not so  distant future of SLU? We need that new president soon, and we really need a guy who can make tough decisions when required.

OG . You said something that is wrong. Endowments are eternal and should not be drained. Endowment income is not and should not be used to support athletics. Endowment principal should remain intact with income available for academic purposes. 

[billiken_roy]

5 minutes ago, willie said:

OG . You said something that is wrong. Endowments are eternal and should not be drained. Endowment income is not and should not be used to support athletics. Endowment principal should remain intact with income available for academic purposes. 

Think outside the box.  Having billions of dollars just sitting there is stupid.   A big time athletic department is a gold mine for the university.   Enrollment goes up and success in the revenue programs pay for themselves.  Do what you have to do to reach that level 

[billiken_roy]

Not all endowment funds are restricted 

[willie]

4 minutes ago, billiken_roy said:

Not all endowment funds are restricted 

Most are and there are tax considerations. I guarantee you SLU endowment money is not going to go to the athletic department. Look at Webster U. School is going broke having defaulted on their bonds. They needed special approval from some donors to transfer some of that money to pay some bills. Without that approval that money could not be used. Endowments have policy guidelines. 

[Pistol]

We've covered the endowment thing before. A lot.

[billiken_roy]

9 hours ago, willie said:

Most are and there are tax considerations. I guarantee you SLU endowment money is not going to go to the athletic department. Look at Webster U. School is going broke having defaulted on their bonds. They needed special approval from some donors to transfer some of that money to pay some bills. Without that approval that money could not be used. Endowments have policy guidelines. 

When that endowment runs in the billions, most wouldn't keep the school from using a sizeable amount to fix their athletic short comings and the money used would barely be noticed 

I agree they won't ever do it as our BoT has very little vision and are pretty much worthless to Saint Louis University athletics.  That won't keep me from pointing out how clueless they are as a collective.   

Policy guidelines can be changed.   Nothing is forever.  

[TheChosenOne]

16 hours ago, kshoe said:

So basically there is free agency every year, revenue sharing and NIL Pay for Play, and it's nearly impossible to be ruled academically ineligible once you are initially cleared. And the SEC wants to expand the NCAA tournament so that the regular season becomes even less important.

If it weren't for the Bills hopefully having a resurgent season my interest would be at an all-time low.

Yeah, it’s hard not to be of that same opinion. I suppose the only caveat being that I’m less concerned about expanding the tournament. But, I’m certainly concerned about the future of college athletics. I was all for players being paid, but all of the subsequent lawsuits while certainly valid seem to have us in a place where it is tough for fans to know what the future landscape of college athletics looks like and it seems unlikely athletes outside of football and basketball will benefit from that future. Oh well, like you said, at least we have an exciting season coming our way as we wait to see where things go.

As NIL got out of control it became so bizarre to have boosters funding it, so having it come from the school made sense, but what will the impact of that be? It’s wild to me that boosters across the country so aggressively threw $ into paying players to the level it got, some people have way too much $.

[cheeseman]

Fontbonne and Webster U had lots of poor management practices that caused their problems.  However, the reduction in the birth rate was an inevitable problem for them and other schools that have been living on the edge.  Good fiduciary practices would not include draining your principal to prop up one area.  Think about a person who cannot afford to keep their house from their income without spending their savings/investments only to reduce their income stream by doing so or borrowing those actions are stopgaps and the house will still be lost ultimately without major changes to one's lifestyle.  I support college athletics but if the business model is not good then changes have to be made or it has to go in its current status.  

[Lord Elrond]

11 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

Think outside the box.  Having billions of dollars just sitting there is stupid.   A big time athletic department is a gold mine for the university.   Enrollment goes up and success in the revenue programs pay for themselves.  Do what you have to do to reach that level 

There is a lot of evidence to support the fact that, while a big time athletics department may generate a lot of cash, they also suck up a lot of cash. Example, UofI athletics department is $296 million in debt despite playing in the B1G. There have been articles questioning whether the money they get from TV in the NEW deal will be enough to pay the interest on the debt, let alone actually pay off principal. They have plenty of company, there have been articles about how Mizzou AD for years has reported making $1 a year, but that was only by sucking up cash from the university. The Mizzou board of regents has set up a committee to oversee and control expenditures, since the money from taxes they get from Jeff City has not been keeping up with expenses, and they need their endowment to generate cash for the academic side of the university. There are two quick examples right there, the one in the most trouble in U Cal in Berkeley, they are $440 mil in debt, and the PAC10 just disintegrated on them. Any conference they join will NOT fund their debt load. They are fudged.

Owners in the NFL, MLB, the Premier League (and others) can operate at a loss for years because rich owners can fund the debt and get loans on the increased value of their franchise, and make out like kings when they sell their franchise. That won’t work for college athletic departments.

[Taj79]

This just cements what we all knew was the next step ----- free agency and open markets.  Joe Bamisile did this in going from Va Tech to Geedubya to Oklahoma and then VCU.  I don't think for now you will see mid-season transfers because that will upset the balance of 13 scholarship players.  But if you don't have 13, sure, why not throw one at the new guy.  Of course, if you believe in team chemistry and cohesiveness, a new guy or gal might disrupt team chemistry and cohesiveness but in today's day and age never say never.

[Old guy]

12 hours ago, Lord Elrond said:

There is a lot of evidence to support the fact that, while a big time athletics department may generate a lot of cash, they also suck up a lot of cash. Example, UofI athletics department is $296 million in debt despite playing in the B1G. There have been articles questioning whether the money they get from TV in the NEW deal will be enough to pay the interest on the debt, let alone actually pay off principal. They have plenty of company, there have been articles about how Mizzou AD for years has reported making $1 a year, but that was only by sucking up cash from the university. The Mizzou board of regents has set up a committee to oversee and control expenditures, since the money from taxes they get from Jeff City has not been keeping up with expenses, and they need their endowment to generate cash for the academic side of the university. There are two quick examples right there, the one in the most trouble in U Cal in Berkeley, they are $440 mil in debt, and the PAC10 just disintegrated on them. Any conference they join will NOT fund their debt load. They are fudged.

Owners in the NFL, MLB, the Premier League (and others) can operate at a loss for years because rich owners can fund the debt and get loans on the increased value of their franchise, and make out like kings when they sell their franchise. That won’t work for college athletic departments.

LOTS of people have little understanding about money management, this is why they entrust experts to handle their money. Most schools handle their money the same way as everybody else. However, you all know that some schools are pretty successful  with money. Would you care to know what it is that they do? Even if you are not interested, just have a brief view at their techniques and see if you can learn something. In the first place schools like Harvard, Cal Tech, MIT, have a system to patent the research done in house. They make lots of money out of royalties from these patents. The big schools encourage their researchers to split from the University and develop their own startup companies, they also angel finance these startups and own big chunks of them. In other words they act as venture capitalists. Only a fraction of these small startup companies succeed, and some of these do extremely well. The small number of these very successful startup companies partially owned by the school may produce very large profits. This is something that should be done by Universities because, being tax exempt, they have the chance of making very large amounts of tax free money, all from a relatively small initial investments. The traditional CAPM method of handling money cannot produce these yields.

There are reasons, other than donors and public funding, that some schools manage to make lots more money than most of the rest do. You (you means the schools, in plural) never find out unless you are willing to take some risk with a relatively small portion of your money. 

[TheA_Bomb]

Many fans' enjoyment of the sport appears tied to their past views of student-athletes remaining at a school for four years or being penalized should they transfer. The arguments for this view are the enjoyment of watching an athlete develop or because a player is loyal. I, too, enjoy believing that a student-athlete is loyal to my chosen school and watching such an athlete develop. However, why would enjoyment be increased by restricting an athlete's freedom? If athletes are genuinely loyal, they will choose to stay if given the freedom of choice. Sport has no meaning but that which we assign to it: wins/losses, enjoying a player, bragging rights over fellow fans. The rule changes don't preclude an athlete from staying at a school for four years or even six years, in the case of Jimerson. The rule changes allow greater freedom of choice and allow players to pursue happiness how they see fit, whether at SLU or another school. It is up to SLU and us fans to make our team a desired destination so that better players choose to play here. Those deriving their enjoyment from loyalty should see their enjoyment increase as they no longer watch Sisyphus push the ball up and down the court but players who freely chose to attend SLU.

 

[SLU_Lax]

4 minutes ago, TheA_Bomb said:

Many fans' enjoyment of the sport appears tied to their past views of student-athletes remaining at a school for four years or being penalized should they transfer. The arguments for this view are the enjoyment of watching an athlete develop or because a player is loyal. I, too, enjoy believing that a student-athlete is loyal to my chosen school and watching such an athlete develop. However, why would enjoyment be increased by restricting an athlete's freedom? If athletes are genuinely loyal, they will choose to stay if given the freedom of choice. Sport has no meaning but that which we assign to it: wins/losses, enjoying a player, bragging rights over fellow fans. The rule changes don't preclude an athlete from staying at a school for four years or even six years, in the case of Jimerson. The rule changes allow greater freedom of choice and allow players to pursue happiness how they see fit, whether at SLU or another school. It is up to SLU and us fans to make our team a desired destination so that better players choose to play here. Those deriving their enjoyment from loyalty should see their enjoyment increase as they no longer watch Sisyphus push the ball up and down the court but players who freely chose to attend SLU.

 

Agree, but I want to make an observation. Davell Roby played on some dismal teams. Seeing him stay, rooting for him, and watching him grow was one of the very few bright spots. 
 

I don’t even want to imagine watching those teams without at least feeling some long term connection with a player.