Transfers - 2024

[SLURadioBoy]

The latest from Stu…

 

[laker119]

15 minutes ago, SLURadioBoy said:

The latest from Stu…

 

Not the greatest news, but in Schertz we trust

[HoosierPal]

Graph showing gains and losses through the portal, to date.

[HoosierPal]

3 hours ago, Taj79 said:

I'm going to stand by my Holmes take until the NBA stardom proves otherwise.  

Current rumors ay SVU have him returning because his draft status isn't 'all that great.'  All-American or not.  

Here is a draft scouting report written today.  First pick second round.  [BTW, which pro team do you scout for?]  Sure he might return to Dayton; they have an impressive NIL program that made last season comfortable for Holmes.  Second round doesn't carry the guarantee or money that a first round does.  Whatever he decides, he will be making nice money next year.

31. DaRon Holmes

Rob Gray-USA TODAY Sports

(Dayton: Forward, Junior, 6-10)

Previous rank: 50 (+19) / Best rank: 22 / Worst rank: NR

DaRon Holmes had the third-highest jump of any prospect in our latest HoopsHype aggregate mock draft.

Several NBA executives are high on Holmes and believe he could be off the board as a late first-round pick.

It should come as no surprise after Holmes dominated at Dayton after returning for his junior season by winning the A-10 Co-Player of the Year and Defensive Player of the Year awards.

With the NBA featuring heavy pick-and-roll actions against big men, Holmes can hold his own defensively with his length and foot speed to hold his own on the perimeter and block shots around the rim.

During his junior season at Dayton, Holmes became a floor spacer and potential pick-and-pop threat at the NBA level by shooting 38.6 percent on 2.5 three-point attempts.

[thetorch]

1 hour ago, HoosierPal said:

Graph showing gains and losses through the portal, to date.

Don't steal other people's work and post it as your own.

[aj_arete]

This might have been addressed earlier in this thread and I missed it.  However in this article, Schertz made a reference of AJ Casey's skill set not working with Miami's system.  So my question is what is Casey's skill set and how will it fit SLU's system?

[Taj79]

@HoosierPal:  saw a listing yesterday where Holmes is #53.  That's barely drafted given 60 picks.  Sorry ..... I'll defer until proven otherwise.  For the record, I thought Toppin would be a lot better than he has shown.

He is who he is.  Even if he comes back to Dayton, he'll be the same player.  Likely dominate down low (given the dearth of A10 big men) but likely still struggle outside five feet.  Maybe , maybe not.  He's a good college player, a dominant force in a league bereft of comparable big men, but nothing dynamic in my book.  

[Aquinas]

1 hour ago, aj_arete said:

This might have been addressed earlier in this thread and I missed it.  However in this article, Schertz made a reference of AJ Casey's skill set not working with Miami's system.  So my question is what is Casey's skill set and how will it fit SLU's system?

Schertz comments about Casey: "The things that really pop out to me are his athleticism and versatility on booth ends of the floor. He is a true hybrid, which means offensively he can play with a big and also a small ball 5. Defensively, he has the quickness, length, strength and lateral quickness to guard 1-5."

I also saw a report on him coming out of highschool that was projecting him as a stretch 4, though his statistics at Miami don't reflect that.

My own view is that if he requires a Double team to keep him from scoring inside, that opens space on the floor for another player. If Casey can recognize the double team and pass out of it, then he works with Shertz system. 

I think Schertz is primarily looking for him to play with Avila. Schertz system is frequently described as 5 out, but his philosophy is really more about having players recognize the spacing of the defense, create spacing problems  and attack them. Ideally every player would be a good 3 point shooter, but the system can be modified to a player that creates spacing problems  in other ways. 

With a man to man defence teams will have to decide  which of their bigs they put in Avila and which on Casey. Casey will probably  make Avila a better player.

 

[billikenfan05]

11 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

Graph showing gains and losses through the portal, to date.

Actual plagiarism. 

[JMM28]

11 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

Graph showing gains and losses through the portal, to date.

Here is the actual source of the info. HoosierBot must have had something go wrong with its code to not just post the full tweet. 

 

 

[Pistol]

I'm still not totally on board with SBU's premise, which has been the point he's been hammering ever since the portal got going this year. A lot of the P5 players transferring down will be as valuable as the non-P5 guys going up. But they're never going to look like that on a graph like the one above.

SBU's retort to my point is that the P5 schools are just taking all the best non-P5 players and dumping the ones who can't cut it. Maybe he's right in that they're upgrading, but I think it's more incremental than he does.

Analytically, Javon Bess would have looked like a no-brainer for Michigan State to dump for a player averaging double figures at a non-P5. And it would've looked like Michigan State "won" the portal if they took a guy scoring 15 PPG in the Horizon as his replacement. But Bess became an indispensable player at SLU whose relative value compared to his MSU years was multiples better.

Okoro from Oregon is another example. Nesbitt from Memphis, technically speaking.

Pickett transferred down from Mizzou (for the purposes of P5 vs. non-P5; I'm not trying to start that argument) and his numbers were very similar at SLU.

Meadows transferred up to SLU and averaged less than half the points he did at Portland. We were the stronger conference team "stealing" from a weaker conference. Did we win the portal on that one? Or Deandre Jones or Rashad Williams? We definitely did on Linssen.

Ezewiro would look like a strong get for UAB this year but would have looked a fraction as valuable coming to SLU from Georgetown.

SLU didn't have anyone transfer up during Ford's time so it's hard to use any in-house examples along those lines.

My point is that every team has the same amount of minutes to fill and someone has to play those minutes. I saw a stat that Xavier's 4 incoming transfer guards are all double figure scorers. Well, that can't be the case next season because they can't all play at the same time. And the guys who left are going to get a bigger opportunity.

tl;dr - Graphics like this try to tell us that P5 schools are adding 2.0x or more the production that they're losing but it's probably more like 1.2x. I still get why it sucks to be a non-P5 fan on the other end of these transactions.

[billikenfan05]

46 minutes ago, Pistol said:

I'm still not totally on board with SBU's premise, which has been the point he's been hammering ever since the portal got going this year. A lot of the P5 players transferring down will be as valuable as the non-P5 guys going up. But they're never going to look like that on a graph like the one above.

SBU's retort to my point is that the P5 schools are just taking all the best non-P5 players and dumping the ones who can't cut it. Maybe he's right in that they're upgrading, but I think it's more incremental than he does.

Analytically, Javon Bess would have looked like a no-brainer for Michigan State to dump for a player averaging double figures at a non-P5. And it would've looked like Michigan State "won" the portal if they took a guy scoring 15 PPG in the Horizon as his replacement. But Bess became an indispensable player at SLU whose relative value compared to his MSU years was multiples better.

Okoro from Oregon is another example. Nesbitt from Memphis, technically speaking.

Pickett transferred down from Mizzou (for the purposes of P5 vs. non-P5; I'm not trying to start that argument) and his numbers were very similar at SLU.

Meadows transferred up to SLU and averaged less than half the points he did at Portland. We were the stronger conference team "stealing" from a weaker conference. Did we win the portal on that one? Or Deandre Jones or Rashad Williams? We definitely did on Linssen.

Ezewiro would look like a strong get for UAB this year but would have looked a fraction as valuable coming to SLU from Georgetown.

SLU didn't have anyone transfer up during Ford's time so it's hard to use any in-house examples along those lines.

My point is that every team has the same amount of minutes to fill and someone has to play those minutes. I saw a stat that Xavier's 4 incoming transfer guards are all double figure scorers. Well, that can't be the case next season because they can't all play at the same time. And the guys who left are going to get a bigger opportunity.

tl;dr - Graphics like this try to tell us that P5 schools are adding 2.0x or more the production that they're losing but it's probably more like 1.2x. I still get why it sucks to be a non-P5 fan on the other end of these transactions.

TLDR Hoosierpal is plagiarizing an analysis of numbers with a flawed premise. 

[shempie]

Putting this here.

https://x.com/ThePortalReport/status/1787576693521310019

 

Charlotte guard Lu'Cye Patterson hearing from Saint Louis

[thatskablamo]

1 hour ago, Pistol said:.

Analytically, Javon Bess would have looked like a no-brainer for Michigan State to dump for a player averaging double figures at a non-P5. And it would've looked like Michigan State "won" the portal if they took a guy scoring 15 PPG in the Horizon as his replacement. But Bess became an indispensable player at SLU whose relative value compared to his MSU years was multiples better.

 

Good point - it’s like the “WAR” statistic in baseball. Would be interesting to flesh this out even further for basketball. 

[Taj79]

Maximus Edwards from Geedubya to Duquesne.

[Crewsorlose]

5 hours ago, Taj79 said:

@HoosierPal:  saw a listing yesterday where Holmes is #53.  That's barely drafted given 60 picks.  Sorry ..... I'll defer until proven otherwise.  For the record, I thought Toppin would be a lot better than he has shown.

He is who he is.  Even if he comes back to Dayton, he'll be the same player.  Likely dominate down low (given the dearth of A10 big men) but likely still struggle outside five feet.  Maybe , maybe not.  He's a good college player, a dominant force in a league bereft of comparable big men, but nothing dynamic in my book.  

Holmes's pre-draft workouts might lift him into the first round and they might make him an undrafted free agent. We'll know in five weeks. 

I don't know what Holmes you watched, but he showed much more range this year. He's got less of a build and less athleticism than Toppin, but he's still long and projects as a rim-protecter who can space the floor some. 

Toppin hasn't been a starter and has slightly disappointed as a pick. Holmes has nowhere near the ceiling but projects as a 9th or 10th man who could play right away on a bad team. 

[cgeldmacher]

12 hours ago, thetorch said:

Don't steal other people's work and post it as your own.

I'm confused.  He didn't say he created the chart.  People post stuff they see out there on this board all the time.  Is it plagiarism every time someone reposts something?

[willie]

2 minutes ago, Crewsorlose said:

Holmes's pre-draft workouts might lift him into the first round and they might make him an undrafted free agent. We'll know in five weeks. 

I don't know what Holmes you watched, but he showed much more range this year. He's got less of a build and less athleticism than Toppin, but he's still long and projects as a rim-protecter who can space the floor some. 

Toppin hasn't been a starter and has slightly disappointed as a pick. Holmes has nowhere near the ceiling but projects as a 9th or 10th man who could play right away on a bad team. 

Toppin has had a pretty good playoff so far. He had a ridiculous and stupid breakaway dunk the other night. Took the ball between his legs. 

[billikenfan05]

3 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

I'm confused.  He didn't say he created the chart.  People post stuff they see out there on this board all the time.  Is it plagiarism every time someone reposts something?

It would literally have been easier to copy and paste a link to the tweet than save the photo from twitter to the camera roll and upload it to the board.

[cgeldmacher]

Just now, billikenfan05 said:

It would literally have been easier to copy and paste a link to the tweet than save the photo from twitter to the camera roll and upload it to the board.

I'm pretty sure he wasn't trying to say "I created this, everyone have a look."

[billikenfan05]

Just now, cgeldmacher said:

I'm pretty sure he wasn't trying to say "I created this, everyone have a look."

This isn't the first time he's just ripped stuff like this from twitter and posted it here. He's done it to WestPineBills more than a handful of times.

[cgeldmacher]

3 minutes ago, billikenfan05 said:

This isn't the first time he's just ripped stuff like this from twitter and posted it here. He's done it to WestPineBills more than a handful of times.

I just think that it was obvious that he was copying and pasting it.  Plagiarism is when you hold something out as being your own creation even though it was created by someone else.  That is not what he did.

Also, I would think that someone who has been very wrongfully, and comically, accused of plagiarism on this board would be a little bit more sensitive to that word being thrown around and used improperly.

[billikenfan05]

5 minutes ago, cgeldmacher said:

I just think that it was obvious that he was copying and pasting it.  Plagiarism is when you hold something out as being your own creation even though it was created by someone else.  That is not what he did.

Also, I would think that someone who has been very wrongfully, and comically, accused of plagiarism on this board would be a little bit more sensitive to that word being thrown around and used improperly.

Ok, forget the word plagiarism since you're hung up on it. He had every opportunity to source where he got it, but didn't. He's a thief. He's gone from posting links and long transcriptions of radio interviews to his current approach of taking stuff from MMP, WPB, and SBUnfurled. This is such a niche interest, and he’s professed he’s not really this die hard SLU fan. So I have to wonder what the point of it is for him. He's not here to actually converse about Billiken Basketball, so what does he get about just posting Billiken news? It's clear he is a fan of controlling the message board. Constantly having to start new threads for everything.

[ACE]

2 hours ago, Pistol said:

I'm still not totally on board with SBU's premise, which has been the point he's been hammering ever since the portal got going this year. A lot of the P5 players transferring down will be as valuable as the non-P5 guys going up. But they're never going to look like that on a graph like the one above.

SBU's retort to my point is that the P5 schools are just taking all the best non-P5 players and dumping the ones who can't cut it. Maybe he's right in that they're upgrading, but I think it's more incremental than he does.

Analytically, Javon Bess would have looked like a no-brainer for Michigan State to dump for a player averaging double figures at a non-P5. And it would've looked like Michigan State "won" the portal if they took a guy scoring 15 PPG in the Horizon as his replacement. But Bess became an indispensable player at SLU whose relative value compared to his MSU years was multiples better.

Okoro from Oregon is another example. Nesbitt from Memphis, technically speaking.

Pickett transferred down from Mizzou (for the purposes of P5 vs. non-P5; I'm not trying to start that argument) and his numbers were very similar at SLU.

Meadows transferred up to SLU and averaged less than half the points he did at Portland. We were the stronger conference team "stealing" from a weaker conference. Did we win the portal on that one? Or Deandre Jones or Rashad Williams? We definitely did on Linssen.

Ezewiro would look like a strong get for UAB this year but would have looked a fraction as valuable coming to SLU from Georgetown.

SLU didn't have anyone transfer up during Ford's time so it's hard to use any in-house examples along those lines.

My point is that every team has the same amount of minutes to fill and someone has to play those minutes. I saw a stat that Xavier's 4 incoming transfer guards are all double figure scorers. Well, that can't be the case next season because they can't all play at the same time. And the guys who left are going to get a bigger opportunity.

tl;dr - Graphics like this try to tell us that P5 schools are adding 2.0x or more the production that they're losing but it's probably more like 1.2x. I still get why it sucks to be a non-P5 fan on the other end of these transactions.

I'd like to see a comparison of transferring "up & down" in the pre-NIL/free agency era v. today. My sense is that it is benefiting the P6 even more now than it did previously. The gap is growing, IMO.

[cgeldmacher]

11 minutes ago, ACE said:

I'd like to see a comparison of transferring "up & down" in the pre-NIL/free agency era v. today. My sense is that it is benefiting the P6 even more now than it did previously. The gap is growing, IMO.

That was my thought too.  When Bess came here, he sat out a year, and then knew he was here for the rest of his time in college ball.  Now, if we get a guy like Bess, he will be gone after one year of putting up some decent numbers.