Transfers - 2023

[Lord Elrond]

8 hours ago, thetorch said:

The portal went as many predicted.  It is a system make the rich richer, and the poor even poorer.

There is very little upward mobility in the portal.

The portal allows big time schools to dump their recruiting mistakes on the smaller schools.  Then bring in more highly ranked freshman, prep, and JUCO players while the rest of college basketball falls all over themselves fighting for backup centers and shooting guards that can't shoot.

It looks like Ford figured this out halfway through the summer.  Build your programs with freshman recruits, augent with available transfers.  Using the transfer portal to build your program just doesn't work. 

That sure seems right, you just can’t build a team with the portal. You can use the portal to fill in a hole in your team, but the bulk of your team comes from recruiting. NIL money, especially if it is tight, needs to be focused on keeping what you have happy, not In trying to outbid other teams with more money.

[slu72]

Did Kramer find a new D1 home? Just curious, because I don’t see where the portal helps a FR who doesn’t have any D1 resume that will make him attractive to another team. Not sure why you’d take a chance at the portal, unless he’s just very unhappy with the place he’s leaving. 

[HoosierPal]

2 minutes ago, slu72 said:

Did Kramer find a new D1 home? Just curious, because I don’t see where the portal helps a FR who doesn’t have any D1 resume that will make him attractive to another team. Not sure why you’d take a chance at the portal, unless he’s just very unhappy with the place he’s leaving. 

Mo State Bear 

[Lord Elrond]

13 minutes ago, slu72 said:

Did Kramer find a new D1 home? Just curious, because I don’t see where the portal helps a FR who doesn’t have any D1 resume that will make him attractive to another team. Not sure why you’d take a chance at the portal, unless he’s just very unhappy with the place he’s leaving. 

A question I’ve been wondering is if some of these kids entered the portal because their current coach told them he was pulling their scholarship to make room for new players after seeing them play in practice and coming to the conclusion that the player wasn’t going to improve like the coach thought they would. I’m sure there were some, but I’m not sure anyone will admit to it, either the Coach or the player affected.

[WVBilliken]

10 hours ago, thetorch said:

The portal went as many predicted.  It is a system make the rich richer, and the poor even poorer.

There is very little upward mobility in the portal.

The portal allows big time schools to dump their recruiting mistakes on the smaller schools.  Then bring in more highly ranked freshman, prep, and JUCO players while the rest of college basketball falls all over themselves fighting for backup centers and shooting guards that can't shoot.

It looks like Ford figured this out halfway through the summer.  Build your programs with freshman recruits, augent with available transfers.  Using the transfer portal to build your program just doesn't work. 

Seemed to do okay at Mizzou last year.  Also Arkansas, Texas Tech, WVU , Murray State ..... and of course St. Peter's.  But there are others.

[willie]

2 hours ago, WVBilliken said:

Seemed to do okay at Mizzou last year.  Also Arkansas, Texas Tech, WVU , Murray State ..... and of course St. Peter's.  But there are others.

How did Pitino build his team?

[WVBilliken]

1 hour ago, willie said:

How did Pitino build his team?

Well this year's team has 7 transfers into St. John's.  Iona only had 2 last year and think they were rotation guys but not starters.

[slu72]

10 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

Mo State Bear 

Not bad a lateral move today. God forbid he turns into the new Blake Ahern. Knives will come out. 

[VeniceMenace]

40 minutes ago, slu72 said:

Not bad a lateral move today. God forbid he turns into the new Blake Ahern. Knives will come out. 

At least in this case he was recruited and was on the team roster at one time…cannot fault the kid for transferring. Not exactly the same scenario as the f’er from Minnesota.

[cheeseman]

15 hours ago, slu72 said:

Not bad a lateral move today. God forbid he turns into the new Blake Ahern. Knives will come out. 

Ahern would have played for us his first year - Kramer was red shirted for not being able to play but you are right if he develops his first or second year there will be much gnashing of teeth.

[almaman]

god forbid he becomes NBA star & comes to the Doc's house for some pro visibility

[cgeldmacher]

On 8/19/2023 at 7:21 AM, billiken_roy said:

it's my opinion the majority of D1 college athletes in the revenue sports never cared about an education.   it was always about playing in the nfl or nba no matter how remote their possibility was.  

Or, for some, its about continuing to play a game you enjoy rather than having to get a real job while being pampered with free food and lodging while only having to be mildly pay attention to your sham classes

[HoosierPal]

Interesting comments on Portal Data from Field of 68 Daily.  

2. Problems with portal data

The transfer portal is an easy boogeyman for college sports right now. It’s blamed for a lack of team unity, year-to-year-cohesiveness, player greed, player restlessness, hurricanes in California, higher gas prices, and the mysterious demise of the honeybee. (I was having formatting issues with my computer for this section. Coincidence that it was about the portal? I think not.)

Or something like that.

But, like most things, there’s far more nuance to the transfer portal than some might think, even when they’re using data to highlight a component of the portal.

That linked tweet has about 1 million views thus far. But it’s primary data point that 45% of transfers this offseason have yet to find a place to play? It’s a stretch.

I’ll let Sam Vecenie and Ken Pomeroy explain.

Ken Pomeroy @kenpomeroy Replying to@Sam_Vecenie It's a wildly inaccurate and bad-faith graphic. VC lists 1821 transfers and says 519 are homeless. But many of these are walk-ons, guys who weren't playing at their original school, got kicked off their team, or 4-year Ivy League players. (And VC is behind on updating a few, too)   Aug 19, 2023     52 Likes   3 Retweets   1 Replies

There are more data points needed for stats like this. Also in that thread via @andrewparrish1, about 1,400 scholarship players entered the portal this spring, and about 1,250 found a new home. More context: about 225 of those players went to a JUCO, D-II, D-III or NAIA.

The transfer portal isn’t what’s wrong with college athletics today. It’s merely a (sometimes messy) conduit for athletes who have more options than in previous years for what they want to do. It’s different than what college sports had before and that makes people uncomfortable.

It’ll get normalized. And it’ll have years when it seems like everyone’s in the portal. But in the end, if we’re giving teenagers and 20-somethings a chance to explore options as a young adult, that’s a good thing. That’s what college is supposed to be.

—Mike Miller

[ACE]

52 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Interesting comments on Portal Data from Field of 68 Daily.  

2. Problems with portal data

The transfer portal is an easy boogeyman for college sports right now. It’s blamed for a lack of team unity, year-to-year-cohesiveness, player greed, player restlessness, hurricanes in California, higher gas prices, and the mysterious demise of the honeybee. (I was having formatting issues with my computer for this section. Coincidence that it was about the portal? I think not.)

Or something like that.

But, like most things, there’s far more nuance to the transfer portal than some might think, even when they’re using data to highlight a component of the portal.

That linked tweet has about 1 million views thus far. But it’s primary data point that 45% of transfers this offseason have yet to find a place to play? It’s a stretch.

I’ll let Sam Vecenie and Ken Pomeroy explain.

Ken Pomeroy @kenpomeroy Replying to@Sam_Vecenie It's a wildly inaccurate and bad-faith graphic. VC lists 1821 transfers and says 519 are homeless. But many of these are walk-ons, guys who weren't playing at their original school, got kicked off their team, or 4-year Ivy League players. (And VC is behind on updating a few, too)   Aug 19, 2023     52 Likes   3 Retweets   1 Replies

There are more data points needed for stats like this. Also in that thread via @andrewparrish1, about 1,400 scholarship players entered the portal this spring, and about 1,250 found a new home. More context: about 225 of those players went to a JUCO, D-II, D-III or NAIA.

The transfer portal isn’t what’s wrong with college athletics today. It’s merely a (sometimes messy) conduit for athletes who have more options than in previous years for what they want to do. It’s different than what college sports had before and that makes people uncomfortable.

It’ll get normalized. And it’ll have years when it seems like everyone’s in the portal. But in the end, if we’re giving teenagers and 20-somethings a chance to explore options as a young adult, that’s a good thing. That’s what college is supposed to be.

—Mike Miller

The free agent transfer portal should not be looked at in a vacuum. Now, you're combining it with NIL which is also motivating some of these departures. Then add all of the conference re-shuffling driven by P5 schools chasing every dollar of football tv money and you wind up with a LOT of major changes to college sports in just a few years. I think it will be several more years before we have a better picture of what the new normal looks like, but I don't like the direction it's heading.

Players no longer have identities with certain schools, it's all very mercenary. It will get even more difficult for non-P6 schools to compete. Conference affiliations and some geographic rivalries are continuing to be destroyed. I used to enjoy at least the appearance of amateurism of college sports, but now that's all blown to hell. Increasingly I find myself turning back to pro sports. At least it's purpose is more honest.

[3star_recruit]

2 hours ago, HoosierPal said:

Interesting comments on Portal Data from Field of 68 Daily.  

2. Problems with portal data

The transfer portal is an easy boogeyman for college sports right now. It’s blamed for a lack of team unity, year-to-year-cohesiveness, player greed, player restlessness, hurricanes in California, higher gas prices, and the mysterious demise of the honeybee. (I was having formatting issues with my computer for this section. Coincidence that it was about the portal? I think not.)

Or something like that.

But, like most things, there’s far more nuance to the transfer portal than some might think, even when they’re using data to highlight a component of the portal.

That linked tweet has about 1 million views thus far. But it’s primary data point that 45% of transfers this offseason have yet to find a place to play? It’s a stretch.

I’ll let Sam Vecenie and Ken Pomeroy explain.

Ken Pomeroy @kenpomeroy Replying to@Sam_Vecenie It's a wildly inaccurate and bad-faith graphic. VC lists 1821 transfers and says 519 are homeless. But many of these are walk-ons, guys who weren't playing at their original school, got kicked off their team, or 4-year Ivy League players. (And VC is behind on updating a few, too)   Aug 19, 2023     52 Likes   3 Retweets   1 Replies

There are more data points needed for stats like this. Also in that thread via @andrewparrish1, about 1,400 scholarship players entered the portal this spring, and about 1,250 found a new home. More context: about 225 of those players went to a JUCO, D-II, D-III or NAIA.

The transfer portal isn’t what’s wrong with college athletics today. It’s merely a (sometimes messy) conduit for athletes who have more options than in previous years for what they want to do. It’s different than what college sports had before and that makes people uncomfortable.

It’ll get normalized. And it’ll have years when it seems like everyone’s in the portal. But in the end, if we’re giving teenagers and 20-somethings a chance to explore options as a young adult, that’s a good thing. That’s what college is supposed to be.

—Mike Miller

I agree with Mr. Miller that virtually unlimited freedom of movement is generally good for players.  It sucks for college team sports.  Who wants to follow a program where the faces change radically every two years? 

As a fan, I'm just going on inertia at this point.   But I can easily see myself giving up on college basketball altogether.  The primary draw for me, and a lot of fans, was seeing these players develop from boys into men.  Unless there are some major changes, that aspect will eventually fade away.

[HoosierPal]

1 hour ago, ACE said:

The free agent transfer portal should not be looked at in a vacuum. Now, you're combining it with NIL which is also motivating some of these departures. Then add all of the conference re-shuffling driven by P5 schools chasing every dollar of football tv money and you wind up with a LOT of major changes to college sports in just a few years. I think it will be several more years before we have a better picture of what the new normal looks like, but I don't like the direction it's heading.

Players no longer have identities with certain schools, it's all very mercenary. It will get even more difficult for non-P6 schools to compete. Conference affiliations and some geographic rivalries are continuing to be destroyed. I used to enjoy at least the appearance of amateurism of college sports, but now that's all blown to hell. Increasingly I find myself turning back to pro sports. At least it's purpose is more honest.

I agree 100%.  And add in the extra COVID year to the equation.  We have what, this season and next season before that extra year finally bleeds out?

[Billiken Rich]

2 hours ago, ACE said:

The free agent transfer portal should not be looked at in a vacuum. Now, you're combining it with NIL which is also motivating some of these departures. Then add all of the conference re-shuffling driven by P5 schools chasing every dollar of football tv money and you wind up with a LOT of major changes to college sports in just a few years. I think it will be several more years before we have a better picture of what the new normal looks like, but I don't like the direction it's heading.

Players no longer have identities with certain schools, it's all very mercenary. It will get even more difficult for non-P6 schools to compete. Conference affiliations and some geographic rivalries are continuing to be destroyed. I used to enjoy at least the appearance of amateurism of college sports, but now that's all blown to hell. Increasingly I find myself turning back to pro sports. At least it's purpose is more honest.

I just had a thought while reading your post:  WORLD ENDING TOMORROW!  non-P6 schools effected the most!

 

I know that NIL/transfer portal/conference realignment will affect the lower level conferences more.  The haves have always had and the have-nots haven't.  It doesn't look much different today.  With the squelching of the free two time transfer, and us having any kind of NIL program, I'm not crazy worried anymore.........

[ACE]

12 minutes ago, Billiken Rich said:

I just had a thought while reading your post:  WORLD ENDING TOMORROW!  non-P6 schools effected the most!

 

I know that NIL/transfer portal/conference realignment will affect the lower level conferences more.  The haves have always had and the have-nots haven't.  It doesn't look much different today.  With the squelching of the free two time transfer, and us having any kind of NIL program, I'm not crazy worried anymore.........

It actually looks worse. I remember a time not too long ago when conferences like the A-10 and MVC were routinely getting multiple bids. Another factor - the change from RPI to the NET as a criteria for Tourney selection. Some of the non P6 schools had cracked the RPI code, particularly in the MVC were able to earn top 40 RPIs. The big boys didn't like that - and magically changed the criteria.

[TheChosenOne]

I was looking at EvanMiya this afternoon and thought I would post what I found.

Concerning the incoming transfers, Evan ranks them: Bradley Ezewiro #233 (0.32 OBPR 2024, 1.13 DBPR 2024, and 1.45 BPR 2024), Michael Meadows #314 (1.35 OBPR 2024, -0.27 DBPR 2024, and 1.07 BPR 2024), and Tim Dalger #1013 (0.04 OBPR 2024, -0.59 DBPR 2024, and -0.55 BPR 2024). For the team ranking, he has us with the #52 overall transfer activity rank (#114 for incoming transfers class rank). *CJ Noland #328 (0.43 OBPR 2024, 0.60 DBPR 2024, and 1.04 BPR 2024)

Looking at player ratings for last season for our roster (our top 5 ranked players were seniors), they were ranked: Terrence Hargrove #850 (0.79 OBPR, 0.62 DBPR, and 1.40 BPR), Gibson Jimerson #1003 (1.73 OBPR, -0.60 DBPR, and 1.13 BPR), Sincere Parker #1148 (0.77 OBPR, 0.11 DBPR, and 0.89 BPR).

And then the ratings for our incoming transfers for last season with their various teams, they were ranked: Michael Meadows #1002 (1.57 OBPR, -0.45 DBPR, and 1.13 BPR), Bradley Ezewiro #2113 (-0.96 OBPR, 0.43 DBPR, and -0.53 BPR), and Tim Dalger #2853 (-0.72 OBPR, -1.22 DBPR, and -1.94 BPR).

I am not seeing any predictive rankings for 2024 beyond the transfers, so this is all I got. But, I figured others would be interested in what I wasted my time looking up.

 

[Dr. Holly Hills]

I agree with 3️ and ace.  No geographical rivals and new mercenaries almost every year, including coaches.  You might as well be watching professional or semiprofessional ball.  We say that from the perspective of what seems to be the “losing end” of the modern system.  But something about losing my mind over “landing” a big time transfer (aka we paid the most) or jumping for joy on “merry flipmass” doesn’t really seem appealing either.  Guess I’m just getting old and bitter.

[TheA_Bomb]

It's a lot of change to deal with all at once. Things will settle back into an equilibrium as in the big schools will still have the big money and get the big recruits.  Same as it ever was.  However, the conference shuffling and loss of rivalries/regionality of college sports hurts.  But remember that can change too.  It's about viewers and if viewers drop, money drops and it can change back.  I cheer for SLU and if a guy like Gibson sticks around that's my dude and I'll cheer for him too.

I do agree with B-STL's assertion that we need a NBA scout like mentality to scour the country for players that are a fit at SLU.  We could go money ball and target those to transfer to our school using analytics.  We need an edge to exploit in order to get winning more often. 1. Pick a coherent system for offense and defense. 2. determine the statistics of a player that make that system work 3. go scout players with those statistics that are attainable SLU recruits 4. win 

[VeniceMenace]

10 hours ago, Dr. Holly Hills said:

I agree with 3️ and ace.  No geographical rivals and new mercenaries almost every year, including coaches.  You might as well be watching professional or semiprofessional ball.  We say that from the perspective of what seems to be the “losing end” of the modern system.  But something about losing my mind over “landing” a big time transfer (aka we paid the most) or jumping for joy on “merry flipmass” doesn’t really seem appealing either.  Guess I’m just getting old and bitter.

Agreed … not wild about the evolution…at least getting Harry and these foreign players will make this season intriguing. In this one-bud league the title is there for the taking.

[brianstl]

1 hour ago, VeniceMenace said:

Agreed … not wild about the evolution…at least getting Harry and these foreign players will make this season intriguing. In this one-bud league the title is there for the taking.

I think offensively we will be good.  It all comes down to how the team plays defense.  3 point defense is a concern, but I am particularly worried about how effective we will be at preventing wings from finishing in the lane and if we will be able to stop any bigs from scoring at will against us.  We were bad defensively last season and that was with Okoro often  able to cover up the mistakes of the other guys on the floor.

[wgstl]

2 minutes ago, brianstl said:

I think offensively we will be good.  It all comes down to how the team plays defense.  3 point defense is a concern, but I am particularly worried about how effective we will be at preventing wings from finishing in the lane and if we will be able to stop any bigs from scoring at will against us.  We were bad defensively last season and that was with Okoro often  able to cover up the mistakes of the other guys on the floor.

I think for as much as the 3 point D improves, its gets equally worse downlow. 

[cgeldmacher]

2 hours ago, brianstl said:

I think offensively we will be good.  It all comes down to how the team plays defense.  3 point defense is a concern, but I am particularly worried about how effective we will be at preventing wings from finishing in the lane and if we will be able to stop any bigs from scoring at will against us.  We were bad defensively last season and that was with Okoro often  able to cover up the mistakes of the other guys on the floor.

We may be playing a lot zone defense this year