Ford- Less with More (and the last great four year Billikens)

[billiken_roy]

the only beard i like in college basketball is chris beard.

[Soderball]

45 minutes ago, gobillsgo said:

At the end of the day, Ford was hired because the belief was the talent he would recruit would outweigh his coaching deficiencies.  We got the talent, and it did not overcome his coaching inability.  In retrospect, Majerus should’ve shown us that coaching and player development beats recruiting stars every day of the week.  It was worth a shot, especially considering where we were post-Crews (a man who could neither recruit nor coach). It failed. It’s time to accept that and move on. You don’t stay with a bum of a significant other just because you’re afraid of who you’ll get next. 

We need both to be very good.

[Box and Won]

19 minutes ago, dlarry said:

The interim HC at Richmond has a nice beard. +1

Otis really has that dog in him. +1

Travis Ford does not have a nice beard-1.

Does he have that dog in him? TBD but not looking good.

We have both Coach Beard and the coach with the beard on our list.

[shempie]

4 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

2 out of 8 going back to the 70's is a pretty good trend. 

Roy

I have been a fan/student/season ticket holder since 1980. I remember the bad coaching hires vividly. Most of those were made under dramatically different circumstances with dramatically different resources. West Pine gym, no charter flights, an unforgiving administartion (hello Craig Upchurch), zero control over our "home court", etc. This is a very good job at this point. Great facilities, a good size budget for mid-major plus basketball, the ability to pay a healthy amount for coaches, the fact that you get to live in a city as opposed to a cow, I mean college town, and an affordable, easy to travel from city at that.  The one drawback I see is the league with not a lot of natural rivals and a league that treats SLU as an afterthought or annoying younger sibling. But even there you can sell travel. SLU plays in Philly, Washington DC, New York, Chicago not Manhattan, KS, Ames Iowa, Peoria, IL, or Laramie, WY. My point is, when we decide to hire a new coach (this year, next year, next decade), we can sell a very good job with lots of positives. And RM proved you can win here which is what all of these guys want, a place they can win.We will get great candidates, it is up to the administration to pick the right one. 

 

[Aquinas]

I believe coach Ford was hired because in 8 years at Oklahoma he went to 5 NCAA tournaments. If you don't count the first 2 rebuild years and the Covid year, which is fair because the cupboard was bare when he got here and there was no open portal at the time.  That is still 1 dance in 4 years, if you assume we don't run the table this year.

I dont think he is in trouble  for repeating his performance  in Oklahoma, I think he is in trouble  because  he hasn't repeated what he did in Oklahoma.

[Slu let the dogs out?]

2 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

 

Oh we are good.  We have at least 6 games we pretty much dominated for 3/4 of the game.   That's what's so infuriating.   Ford is so blinded by Collins he refuses to close out the game with the team that played the first 3/4 of the game.

Ford got us the players.   But he refuses to change his mindset.

Is that a reason to switch coaches?   Hell yes assuming we truly get a known step up I have no confidence we will bring in a new coach with the skill and mindset to take what we have and go up from there.   It will be another start over.

 

Love ya, Roy, but we aren't good. We've shown glimpses of what good teams look like but we aren't good. Good teams are consistent, they learn from their mistakes, they adjust, and they play a full 40 minutes. We're incapable of winning meaningful road games and our 6 game win streak in January was against teams with an average NET ranking of 200 (Two hundred). 

[BrockL]

Chris May last year decided to part ways with Lisa Stone, saying he believes the women's basketball program should compete regularly in the NCAA tournament. If that's the same standard May has for the men's basketball program, then Ford has to go. It's as simple as that. 

[wgstl]

11 minutes ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:

Love ya, Roy, but we aren't good. We've shown glimpses of what good teams look like but we aren't good. Good teams are consistent, they learn from their mistakes, they adjust, and they play a full 40 minutes. We're incapable of winning meaningful road games and our 6 game win streak in January was against teams with an average NET ranking of 200 (Two hundred). 

We're not even good at home. 

- Boise st

- SIEe

Nearly loss to GMU and RHody

-VCU

[wgstl]

1 minute ago, BrockL said:

Chris May last year decided to part ways with Lisa Stone, saying he believes the women's basketball program should compete regularly in the NCAA tournament. If that's the same standard May has for the men's basketball program, then Ford has to go. It's as simple as that. 

Simple as that, yes. But money makes it not so simple. 

[slu72]

10 minutes ago, Slu let the dogs out? said:

Love ya, Roy, but we aren't good. We've shown glimpses of what good teams look like but we aren't good. Good teams are consistent, they learn from their mistakes, they adjust, and they play a full 40 minutes. We're incapable of winning meaningful road games and our 6 game win streak in January was against teams with an average NET ranking of 200 (Two hundred). 

On paper we look (ed) loaded. At 18-9 we’re clearly not great. Do we have skilled and talented players? I think we do, but they’re like a race car that leads for 3/4 of the race then breaks down. One would think after 10-15 games/races the staff/ engineers would have figured out what parts you have to pay special attention to and worked to strengthen them. Obviously we’ve not done this as we continue to breakdown in crucial games. Could this team win Bklyn? I think the talent’s there to win it, but I’m not convinced the mind set is up to the task. 

[JMM28]

2 hours ago, Box and Won said:

Given the current NIL situation, Bag Men have gone the way of the dodo.  So Skip and I have pivoted to form our own coaching search firm. 

With help from the board, we've already identified:

- Richmond's interim HC (whatever his name is) and

- Otis

as potential replacements.  Give us a little more time, and I'm sure we can come up with a long list of candidates. 

Thanks for cutting me out of the company, richard. 

[HoosierPal]

53 minutes ago, Box and Won said:

We have both Coach Beard and the coach with the beard on our list.

Nate Oats could soon be available.  Better bring the heat though if you talk to him.

[JMM28]

This team isn't good. This team is the definition of mediocre. Travis Ford as a coach is mediocre.

SLU hasn't really made terrible coaching hires since...Ekker? And it isn't like he was inheriting some wonderful program. 

Romar and Soderberg were solid. They were in a good conference with a terrible level of support from the University. Lip service from Biondi about being a top program with no actual $ to back it up. 

Spoon and Majerus were great, lack of support not withstanding. 

The Crews hire at the time was absolutely justifiable. He obviously shipwrecked things because he was old school and bad at recruiting and stuff. But his tenure was more successful than anything Ford has done to this point. 

The Ford hire has been solid but predictably mediocre. 

2.4 million a year (if that is what it is) puts SLU in the top 40 or so coaching salaries in the country. For reference, Gates at Mizzou signed a deal for 2.5 with annual increases to 3 mill over 5 years. Florida hired Todd Golden and paid him 3 mill per last offseason. 

Another way to look at it. If Travis Ford were a free agent, who would hire him right now and what would they pay him? He'd be looked at by MAC or below level schools and salary of around 500k on the top end. Why should SLU retain that or dream of extending it?  

[wgstl]

9 hours ago, Billiken Rich said:

You're talking through your hat again.  You remind my of those zany Better Together true believers.  "Well anything would be better than this!"   Oh really?  Let's put the guy indicted for bribery and mail fraud in charge of the new city/county.  I'm done defending Ford but your ridiculous "promise" is worth less than nothing and you have no idea what the word "hard" means apparently......

What are you talking about? 

Ford is not a good coach, period.   I'm not saying he's a bad coach, he's just average, and we can easily do better than average.  Numbers prove he is average. This is not an opinion, this is a fact.  So no, I am not talking out of my hat when I say we can do better. 

[gobillsgo]

15 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Nate Oats could soon be available.  Better bring the heat though if you talk to him.

Would have been great to see Oats’ comments on S1 and S2, considering being an accomplice to murder constitutes “being in the wrong place at the wrong time” to him. 

[dlarry]

1 hour ago, Box and Won said:

We have both Coach Beard and the coach with the beard on our list.

Only one thing left to do.

Hire Coach Beard and make him grow a beard.

Maybe bring in Otis as an assistant to teach them how to get that dog in them. 

[Box and Won]

2 minutes ago, dlarry said:

Only one thing left to do.

Hire Coach Beard and make him grow a beard.

Maybe bring in Otis as an assistant to teach them how to get that dog in them. 

We'll add Justyn Mutts to the staff as well, once his playing days are over.

[Marlow]

3 hours ago, billiken_roy said:

It should Influence Chris May.   If we aren't truly going to go out and get a guaranteed top head coach, then the trend over the last 40+ years of bringing in another limited on floor success coach is nothing but an effort in gaslighting the fan base.

Fire ford, and bring up and coming asst from power 5 conf who comes in with the give me 5 years to build song and dance.   We all smile and nod our heads then suffer through 2-3 years of rebuilding then the next year is supposed to be the year we improve but don't get to even 20 years.   But wait, the entire lineup minus one secondary player will be back wait till next year.   The next year a hotshot local freshman as n comes in, we all believe we are even better with all the returning experience and the future NBA freshman.   

By Xmas we've had 5 or 6 near miss tough losses.   We end up 6th in the conference and fans are now grumbling.   Many exclaim, "wait till next year" again is a duplicate of the year before everyone is fed up, the administration listen, fire the underachiever coach.  

We start over again.   But no fears, this time we hire the coach from xyz University who the AD proclaims just never got the tools that slu can give 

Interview w new coach is inspiring.  He said he only needs 5 years to get us in the elite 8 games.   

5 years later .... .  Repeat again.  

What's the definition of insanity?

The transfer portal has shortened the rebuilding timetable dramatically. 

[HoosierPal]

29 minutes ago, Marlow said:

The transfer portal has shortened the rebuilding timetable dramatically. 

Unless you are St. Bonaventure.

[Billiken Rich]

52 minutes ago, wgstl said:

What are you talking about? 

Ford is not a good coach, period.   I'm not saying he's a bad coach, he's just average, and we can easily do better than average.  Numbers prove he is average. This is not an opinion, this is a fact.  So no, I am not talking out of my hat when I say we can do better. 

You said: "I’m promising that a new coach is better than ford.  Which I know, isn’t hard. "

 

I'm just saying that what you said is preposterous.  We can get a better coach but your promising he or she will be better than Ford and saying it'll be easy, is the essence of talking through your hat

[wgstl]

Just now, Billiken Rich said:

You said: "I’m promising that a new coach is better than ford.  Which I know, isn’t hard. "

 

I'm just saying that what you said is preposterous.  We can get a better coach but your promising he or she will be better than Ford and saying it'll be easy, is the essence of talking through your hat

It would be really easy.

[Lord Elrond]

14 minutes ago, HoosierPal said:

Unless you are St. Bonaventure.

That’s a point I think a lot of people miss. CAN the transfer portal be used to get good players and transform your team quickly? Yes it can. Is it GUARANTEED to do that? No it is not. Are there examples of teams it’s worked for? Yes.  Are there examples of teams where it has not worked? Yes.

[stmdragons]

Chris Mack is the only semi-realistic and desirable option for me as far as P5 retreads go. Hard pass on Chris Beard. 

[brianstl]

I don't understand the thought that SLU hasn't made more good than bad coaching hires.  In the last 41 years they have hired Grawer (really good hire, but it was time to move on), Spoon (great hire), Romar (good hire), Brad (bad hire), Majerus (great hire), Crews (bad hire) and Ford (OK hire, but time to move on).  It appears to me SLU has a good enough batting average hiring head coaches not to dread having to do it again.  

[JMM28]

6 minutes ago, brianstl said:

I don't understand the thought that SLU hasn't made more good than bad coaching hires.  In the last 41 years they have hired Grawer (really good hire, but it was time to move on), Spoon (great hire), Romar (good hire), Brad (bad hire), Majerus (great hire), Crews (bad hire) and Ford (OK hire, but time to move on).  It appears to me SLU has a good enough batting average hiring head coaches not to dread having to do it again.  

And the fact that 5 or so different ADs/Presidents made the hires...